Cornell $$ vs. NYU $ Forum

[toothbrush]

To attempt answer my own question, I've been speaking to a CLS '07 grad who had similar options as me. While she said she was happy with her decision, she also said that in today's market, she couldn't promise that she would make the same choice given the uncertainty of the legal job market. She didn't say that she regretted it, but it does remind me that we're in sort of unprecedented times when the value of a sticker law degree isn't what it used to be. It makes it hard to gauge future outcomes.

Which is why it's so safe to take that Cornell money.

On a side note, have you appealed to Cornell asking for more money? It seems from the c/o 2016 thread their pot is still full of money. If you eeked out another 10k/ year maybe you'd feel even better ?

yeah, they already turned down my appeal

cheap bastards.

and idk the more I read ITT the more I feel like I'll end up at Cornell because they're likely (hopefully) to give me the most money.

[Lincoln]

Re: loan payments. I've done a lot of calculations here and with interest and my UG debt Cornell would mean three years in big law and CLS/NYU would mean 5 years.

As someone who will be dealing with this in seven months, I think you are seriously overestimating your ability to pay down debt on a BigLaw salary.

[ph5354a]

cheap bastards.

and idk the more I read ITT the more I feel like I'll end up at Cornell because they're likely (hopefully) to give me the most money.

Yeah, luckily I have NYU and CLS just throwing wads and wads of money my way

Don't let me do anything to dissuade you from Cornell. I love the finger lakes, and if I have to show you a picture of my wine bottle collection to prove that, then so be it. Like I said before, it's a lot of weird personal/emotional reasons that's stopping me, and if there's a TLS-Psycho Analysis thread, I'd be happy to expand on them

[ph5354a]

Re: loan payments. I've done a lot of calculations here and with interest and my UG debt Cornell would mean three years in big law and CLS/NYU would mean 5 years.

As someone who will be dealing with this in seven months, I think you are seriously overestimating your ability to pay down debt on a BigLaw salary.

Can you expand on this? I"m assuming $5,000 loan payments on an (almost) $9,000/month salary. Is my after-tax salary off? I know living off of $4,000/month in NYC is tight, but I'm living much more frugally now.

[hephaestus]

Re: loan payments. I've done a lot of calculations here and with interest and my UG debt Cornell would mean three years in big law and CLS/NYU would mean 5 years.

As someone who will be dealing with this in seven months, I think you are seriously overestimating your ability to pay down debt on a BigLaw salary.

Can you expand on this? I"m assuming $5,000 loan payments on an (almost) $9,000/month salary. Is my after-tax salary off? I know living off of $4,000/month in NYC is tight, but I'm living much more frugally now.

5k a month seems like an incredible amount of money. Also I think it's closer to 8k a month after tax.

[ph5354a]

Re: loan payments. I've done a lot of calculations here and with interest and my UG debt Cornell would mean three years in big law and CLS/NYU would mean 5 years.

As someone who will be dealing with this in seven months, I think you are seriously overestimating your ability to pay down debt on a BigLaw salary.

Can you expand on this? I"m assuming $5,000 loan payments on an (almost) $9,000/month salary. Is my after-tax salary off? I know living off of $4,000/month in NYC is tight, but I'm living much more frugally now.

5k a month seems like an incredible amount of money. Also I think it's closer to 8k a month after tax.

It most certainly is, but if my goal is getting these loans (whether Cornell or NYU/CLS) gone asap, then I think that's my target monthly payment.

[sinfiery]

Yeah, I can't imagine it would be that hard to put 5k-7k (7k after raises) towards your loans and live on 3k if you make it a priority. Especially since you'll be working most of the week anyways.

[hephaestus]

Yeah, I can't imagine it would be that hard to put 5k-7k (7k after raises) towards your loans and live on 3k if you make it a priority. Especially since you'll be working most of the week anyways.

Housing in Manhattan is way too expensive to put 5-7k in per month.

[NoodleyOne]

Yeah, I can't imagine it would be that hard to put 5k-7k (7k after raises) towards your loans and live on 3k if you make it a priority. Especially since you'll be working most of the week anyways.

Housing in Manhattan is way too expensive to put 5-7k in per month.

You don't HAVE to live in Manhattan.

Also, I think Cornell takes this, but you may want to try to get more from NYU with Columbia's offer. If they bump to 60k, this gets more competitive.

[ph5354a]

Yeah, I can't imagine it would be that hard to put 5k-7k (7k after raises) towards your loans and live on 3k if you make it a priority. Especially since you'll be working most of the week anyways.

Housing in Manhattan is way too expensive to put 5-7k in per month.

There's always the chance the rent prices outpace income, but from what I've seen, sharing a 2 bedroom or finding a studio for $2,000 in Manhattan is doable.

Including Brooklyn/Jersey.

[ph5354a]

Also, I think Cornell takes this, but you may want to try to get more from NYU with Columbia's offer. If they bump to 60k, this gets more competitive.

Yeah, definitely doing this. From what I've seen on LSN, most people with the $30-40k offer from CLS got $50k-75k from NYU. I'm hoping NYU sees it the same way.

[Lincoln]

Re: loan payments. I've done a lot of calculations here and with interest and my UG debt Cornell would mean three years in big law and CLS/NYU would mean 5 years.

As someone who will be dealing with this in seven months, I think you are seriously overestimating your ability to pay down debt on a BigLaw salary.

Can you expand on this? I"m assuming $5,000 loan payments on an (almost) $9,000/month salary. Is my after-tax salary off? I know living off of $4,000/month in NYC is tight, but I'm living much more frugally now.

The cost of living in NYC has been debated to death in other threads, and I can see this thread is already somewhat off-topic, so I'm just going to leave you with the below to ignore or take into account as you see fit.

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, so I'm estimating here, but the 10-year plan seems more reasonable. Your after-tax salary is more like $7,800 per month (assuming living in NYC and filing single with standard deduction). Living expenses vary, but I think $4,000 is doable for expenses. (Just keep in mind that you will spend money on clothes, dry cleaning, eating out, etc., simply as a function of having less spare time, and your friends' tastes in entertainment will be more expensive, forcing you to also spend more.) That leaves $3,800. Assuming your debt is about $230,000 out of school, your payments on the 10-year plan will be around $3,100. That leaves $700. It may seem like you should use this to pay off more of your loan, but it's definitely prudent, at least for the first year or two, to save this for emergencies, possible loss of job, need to put down a deposit for a new apartment, etc. You may well be able to pay it off faster than the 10 years allotted, as your salary will increase (at least if you stay in BigLaw), but 5 years is definitely optimistic.

[ph5354a]

I don't have the exact numbers in front of me, so I'm estimating here, but the 10-year plan seems more reasonable. Your after-tax salary is more like $7,800 per month (assuming living in NYC and filing single with standard deduction). Living expenses vary, but I think $4,000 is doable for expenses. (Just keep in mind that you will spend money on clothes, dry cleaning, eating out, etc., simply as a function of having less spare time, and your friends' tastes in entertainment will be more expensive, forcing you to also spend more.) That leaves $3,800. Assuming your debt is about $230,000 out of school, your payments on the 10-year plan will be around $3,100. That leaves $700. It may seem like you should use this to pay off more of your loan, but it's definitely prudent, at least for the first year or two, to save this for emergencies, possible loss of job, need to put down a deposit for a new apartment, etc. You may well be able to pay it off faster than the 10 years allotted, as your salary will increase (at least if you stay in BigLaw), but 5 years is definitely optimistic.

Thanks. It sounds like I was over-estimating my after-tax salary, so this is definitely helpful. I'll adjust my expectations accordingly.

While we're at it, NYC to $180k in 2016??

[kaiser]

And this is why I wish the polls could somehow be broken down between current students and 0L's. Current students, including CCN students know full well that Cornell is the smarter choice. You have stars in your eyes that are clouding your vision, as many of us did prior to picking a school to attend.

[toothbrush]

And this is why I wish the polls could somehow be broken down between current students and 0L's. Current students, including CCN students know full well that Cornell is the smarter choice. You have stars in your eyes that are clouding your vision, as many of us did prior to picking a school to attend.

to weed out the 7 presumably 0ls who chose nyu/cls over the 14 0ls + 1L+'s who say cornell ?

[dixiecupdrinking]

As long as we're at it... $4,000 a month for expenses is far from frugal. You can certainly live on a whole lot less than that in NYC and still enjoy yourself and be comfortable. Really no reason to pay that much money if you're $200k in the hole.

Anyway I'm a 3L and don't think this is a no-brainer for Cornell at all.

[kaiser]

And this is why I wish the polls could somehow be broken down between current students and 0L's. Current students, including CCN students know full well that Cornell is the smarter choice. You have stars in your eyes that are clouding your vision, as many of us did prior to picking a school to attend.

to weed out the 7 presumably 0ls who chose nyu/cls over the 14 0ls + 1L+'s who say cornell ?

Yes, I would have absolutely found it useful to know where the current students are voting. By and large, I write off the "0L factor" in most polls. I can usually get a rough idea for how much it is skewing the poll based on the comments and discussion. But it would be so much easier if it were broken down clearly.

[sinfiery]

8060 is the monthly takehome pay at 160k in nyc


i completely disagree about your COL assessment but then again different people are accustomed to different standards of living

[jbagelboy]

Before the cls money, i said cornell. Wih cls on the table, thats my pick. Im sure you've done your homework: their numbers are worth it. lots of people trash on columbia on tls, but I dont see why when its so worth it; also i will literally kill half of my neighbors for an aid offer from them.

[toothbrush]

Before the cls money, i said cornell. Wih cls on the table, thats my pick. Im sure you've done your homework: their numbers are worth it. lots of people trash on columbia on tls, but I dont see why when its so worth it; also i will literally kill half of my neighbors for an aid offer from them.

how do you respond to people from cls saying to take cornell ?

[kaiser]

Before the cls money, i said cornell. Wih cls on the table, thats my pick. Im sure you've done your homework: their numbers are worth it. lots of people trash on columbia on tls, but I dont see why when its so worth it; also i will literally kill half of my neighbors for an aid offer from them.

how do you respond to people from cls saying to take cornell ?

Its precisely the 0L/current student disconnect that I'm talking about. Idk what it is about actually attending the T6 school that changes the students' perspective, but it has a way of washing the stars out of our eyes and allowing us to view the situation with a bit more clarity. Not saying that a large # of T6 students regret their decisions or anything like that, but if we could all do it over again, I think many of us now understand that, in retrospect, we put a bit too much emphasis on silly things and minute differences among schools (many of which are trivial in actuality). This somehow led us to the conclusion that tens of thousands of dollars were somehow offset by whatever factor we disproportionately inflated.

[bizzybone1313]

Before the cls money, i said cornell. Wih cls on the table, thats my pick. Im sure you've done your homework: their numbers are worth it. lots of people trash on columbia on tls, but I dont see why when its so worth it; also i will literally kill half of my neighbors for an aid offer from them.

+1. Columbia is greedy as fuck. Receiving money from them is like receiving money from the Tooth Fairy. It just doesn't happen very often.

[jbagelboy]

Before the cls money, i said cornell. Wih cls on the table, thats my pick. Im sure you've done your homework: their numbers are worth it. lots of people trash on columbia on tls, but I dont see why when its so worth it; also i will literally kill half of my neighbors for an aid offer from them.

how do you respond to people from cls saying to take cornell ?

Its precisely the 0L/current student disconnect that I'm talking about. Idk what it is about actually attending the T6 school that changes the students' perspective, but it has a way of washing the stars out of our eyes and allowing us to view the situation with a bit more clarity. Not saying that a large # of T6 students regret their decisions or anything like that, but if we could all do it over again, I think many of us now understand that, in retrospect, we put a bit too much emphasis on silly things and minute differences among schools (many of which are trivial in actuality). This somehow led us to the conclusion that tens of thousands of dollars were somehow offset by whatever factor we disproportionately inflated.

I say this first: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsm ... -the-most/
cause numbers don't lie. CLS : Cornell starting pay 2 to 1.

and this second: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wire ... ge-deaths/
literally, they built nets to prevent suicides on that campus

and this third: http://images.businessweek.com/slidesho ... es#slide45
remember you have to live there for 3 years. you better sign up for hulu plus cause its gonna be a long fucking winter in ithaca

[toothbrush]

Before the cls money, i said cornell. Wih cls on the table, thats my pick. Im sure you've done your homework: their numbers are worth it. lots of people trash on columbia on tls, but I dont see why when its so worth it; also i will literally kill half of my neighbors for an aid offer from them.

how do you respond to people from cls saying to take cornell ?

Its precisely the 0L/current student disconnect that I'm talking about. Idk what it is about actually attending the T6 school that changes the students' perspective, but it has a way of washing the stars out of our eyes and allowing us to view the situation with a bit more clarity. Not saying that a large # of T6 students regret their decisions or anything like that, but if we could all do it over again, I think many of us now understand that, in retrospect, we put a bit too much emphasis on silly things and minute differences among schools (many of which are trivial in actuality). This somehow led us to the conclusion that tens of thousands of dollars were somehow offset by whatever factor we disproportionately inflated.

I say this first: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jacquelynsm ... -the-most/
cause numbers don't lie. CLS : Cornell starting pay 2 to 1.

and this second: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wire ... ge-deaths/
literally, they built nets to prevent suicides on that campus

and this third: http://images.businessweek.com/slidesho ... es#slide45
remember you have to live there for 3 years. you better sign up for hulu plus cause its gonna be a long fucking winter in ithaca

1) use law school transparency
your numbers lie

nyu used to be the number 1 suicide school but you have no probs with that

and I have hulu (netflix) already 'cause the winter is p long everywhere in NY ?

[kaiser]

Noting the fact that some kids jump off the gorges in Ithaca is precisely what I meant when I talked about overinflating trivialities to the extent that 0L's delude themselves into thinking that they somehow outweigh tens of thousands of dollars of $$ (and btw, none of those kids were law students). While the whole "nothing to do in Ithaca" & "its cold there" thing has at least some merit to it, it once again takes a gross overinflation of those factors to even put a dent into the tens of thousands of dollars difference in price.