ABA just released detailed employment stats for 2010 Forum

[rayiner]

"Pre-ITE" was 80% 2L SA's at MVDNC and 90% 2L SA's at HYSCCN. I don't think we're getting back there for awhile yet.

[drmguy]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=183053


I added in ranking and some other stuff.

[IAFG]

"Pre-ITE" was 80% 2L SA's at MVDNC and 90% 2L SA's at HYSCCN. I don't think we're getting back there for awhile yet.

Source for 90% HYS? I doubt this on the basis of self-selection alone.

[ahnhub]

"Pre-ITE" was 80% 2L SA's at MVDNC and 90% 2L SA's at HYSCCN. I don't think we're getting back there for awhile yet.

Source for 90% HYS? I doubt this on the basis of self-selection alone.

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.co ... ut_slowly/

towards the bottom it discloses summer SA's for Harvard and Yale: 85%/72% in 2009 and 77%/72% in 2010.

[IAFG]

"Pre-ITE" was 80% 2L SA's at MVDNC and 90% 2L SA's at HYSCCN. I don't think we're getting back there for awhile yet.

Source for 90% HYS? I doubt this on the basis of self-selection alone.

http://newsandinsight.thomsonreuters.co ... ut_slowly/

towards the bottom it discloses summer SA's for Harvard and Yale: 85%/72% in 2009 and 77%/72% in 2010.

Yeah that sounds more like it.

[rayiner]

"Pre-ITE" was 80% 2L SA's at MVDNC and 90% 2L SA's at HYSCCN. I don't think we're getting back there for awhile yet.

Source for 90% HYS? I doubt this on the basis of self-selection alone.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... oymentdata

90% at Chicago for C/O 2010, 69% for C/O 2011.

http://www.law.columbia.edu/careers/car ... rospective

91% at Columbia for C/O 2010, 75% for C/O 2011.

Self-selection out of big law SA's is utter flame.

EDIT: Yeah, HYS might be a bit different.

[IAFG]

"Pre-ITE" was 80% 2L SA's at MVDNC and 90% 2L SA's at HYSCCN. I don't think we're getting back there for awhile yet.

Source for 90% HYS? I doubt this on the basis of self-selection alone.

http://www.law.uchicago.edu/prospective ... oymentdata

90% at Chicago for C/O 2010, 69% for C/O 2011.

http://www.law.columbia.edu/careers/car ... rospective

91% at Columbia for C/O 2010, 75% for C/O 2011.

Self-selection out of big law SA's is utter flame.

EDIT: Yeah, HYS might be a bit different.

HYS used to "firmly refuse" biglaw in favor of things like DOJ SLIP. The difference between pre-ITE and now, of course, is that there used to be something else to choose over biglaw, like PI/PD/gov't programs that would hire their summers.

[NinerFan]

Unless they're on the academia track, there's not many jobs out there that are going to be both hiring and "better" than biglaw.

[Gail]

wow. just wow. life sucks. very depressed over this.

[ahnhub]

wow. just wow. life sucks. very depressed over this.

Depressed over what?

[romothesavior]

wow. just wow. life sucks. very depressed over this.

I hope you're kidding. This isn't news to anyone who is actually in law school or who has been following (and taking to heart) the things said on TLS for the past 2-3 years.

[Gail]

hard numbers have a stronger effect on me than forum posts.

[Davidbentley]

hard numbers have a stronger effect on me than forum posts.

Cynic.

[IAFG]

hard numbers have a stronger effect on me than forum posts.

So you missed the NLJ250 numbers?

[romothesavior]

hard numbers have a stronger effect on me than forum posts.

Yeah, I think that's the case for everybody, but it does amaze me sometimes how 0Ls are so dismissive of the actual law students on TLS, most of whom go to a wide variety of schools yet still seem to have the same general sentiments regarding the economy, legal hiring, etc. The actual data on the market is sparse, often inaccurate, and generally unhelpful (as opposed to this, which is generally helpful, although still incomplete). It's not like we don't want to give you perfect statistical breakdowns of everything we're saying. But just because we can't doesn't mean the general sentiments should be viewed with such skepticism. It's not like when I do an informational interview with an attorney and they give me their general observations about the market or their job I go, "GIMME HARD NUMBERS OR GTFO!"

So yeah, none of this stuff should be all that surprising. Like IAFG said, NLJ data is also out there. If you think this is bad, wait til next year's data comes out.

[Gail]

hard numbers have a stronger effect on me than forum posts.

So you missed the NLJ250 numbers?

Didn't have my heart set on NLJ250. Thought that government and small law (but not shitlaw) would still be available. It isn't. At least not for me.

Yeah, I think that's the case for everybody, but it does amaze me sometimes how 0Ls are so dismissive of the actual law students on TLS, most of whom go to a wide variety of schools yet still seem to have the same general sentiments regarding the economy, legal hiring, etc. The actual data on the market is sparse, often inaccurate, and generally unhelpful (as opposed to this, which is generally helpful, although still incomplete). It's not like we don't want to give you perfect statistical breakdowns of everything we're saying. But just because we can't doesn't mean the general sentiments should be viewed with such skepticism. It's not like when I do an informational interview with an attorney and they give me their general observations about the market or their job I go, "GIMME HARD NUMBERS OR GTFO!"

So yeah, none of this stuff should be all that surprising. Like IAFG said, NLJ data is also out there. If you think this is bad, wait til next year's data comes out.

Oh man.

I don't think my heart can take that.

[Jaeger]

hard numbers have a stronger effect on me than forum posts.

Yeah, I think that's the case for everybody, but it does amaze me sometimes how 0Ls are so dismissive of the actual law students on TLS, most of whom go to a wide variety of schools yet still seem to have the same general sentiments regarding the economy, legal hiring, etc. The actual data on the market is sparse, often inaccurate, and generally unhelpful (as opposed to this, which is generally helpful, although still incomplete). It's not like we don't want to give you perfect statistical breakdowns of everything we're saying. But just because we can't doesn't mean the general sentiments should be viewed with such skepticism. It's not like when I do an informational interview with an attorney and they give me their general observations about the market or their job I go, "GIMME HARD NUMBERS OR GTFO!"

So yeah, none of this stuff should be all that surprising. Like IAFG said, NLJ data is also out there. If you think this is bad, wait til next year's data comes out.

It is mostly not all that surprising, except UMN's numbers for 50+Fed are piss-poor and no where comparable to their rank.

[rayiner]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

[Gail]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

[splittinghairs]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

Yeah I wonder why its such strong sentiment that Gov isnt hiring on TLS, by my math its 20.5/218.53 = 9.38% of all law school graduates who get long-term GOV jobs, thats actually a substantial amount.

DOJ is obviously hard to get into, but thats not the only GOV job that pays GS 11 after graduation right?

So not all of those 9.38% of class in GOV is getting good pay, but what sort of job are they getting in GOV anyways?

[TaipeiMort]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

They do hire. It is regimented though. In theory no awesome nepotism or "networking," which really means it is more concealed nepotism. I have a friend a Chicago who gunned for government from Day 1. He battled every day for these jobs, got amazing grades, and chaired a journal. One of the top 5 most intelligent people at our school (I think). Really nice, agreeable, great softs, good cold seller, happy, hard working, great life story, dedicated, not into biglaw at all, savy. (I think) still struggling to find a good government job.

I would seriously put in the same category: Great fed government law job, international PI law, entertainment law, sports law.

But, as I said above, if you have a special connection, you should be able to get past all of this. Nepotism/ties/influence peddling would be really helpful to getting in. Ask yourself: WWND? (What would Newt Gingrich Do?).

[IAFG]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

Not straight out of school.

[splittinghairs]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

Not straight out of school.

I dont get why this is the case, the LT Gov figures are based on jobs straight out (within 9 months to be exact) of school. I just don't understand how a school like Catholic University places 81/286 in LT Gov.

Maybe schools close to DC or state capitols, or flagship state schools do disproportionately well.

[Gail]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

They do hire. It is regimented though. In theory no awesome nepotism or "networking," which really means it is more concealed nepotism. I have a friend a Chicago who gunned for government from Day 1. He battled every day for these jobs, got amazing grades, and chaired a journal. One of the top 5 most intelligent people at our school (I think). Really nice, agreeable, great softs, good cold seller, happy, hard working, great life story, dedicated, not into biglaw at all, savy. (I think) still struggling to find a good government job.

I would seriously put in the same category: Great fed government law job, international PI law, entertainment law, sports law.

But, as I said above, if you have a special connection, you should be able to get past all of this. Nepotism/ties/influence peddling would be really helpful to getting in. Ask yourself: WWND? (What would Newt Gingrich Do?).

Oh god. Are things with places like HUD, EEOC, SSA, IRS, SEC, NLRB, DoC really that competitive?

[IAFG]

Government jobs are pure fantasy. DOJ hired like 40 people this year in the whole country. States are bankrupt.

What about other agencies? I had a particular field in mind.

Not straight out of school.

I dont get why this is the case, the LT Gov figures are based on jobs straight out (within 9 months to be exact) of school. I just don't understand how a school like Catholic University place 81/286 in LT Gov.

Maybe schools close to DC or state capitols, or flagship state schools do disproportionately well.

These stats aren't for fedgov, could really mean a wide range of things. I know someone who graduated from Creighton who is an HR person for a state agency (I guess JD preferred, but definitely not JD required). Another example, I know someone who is currently PT at a DC law school working at a Fed agency; he'll probably stay on in his current role after graduation. Aside from that, I don't know when gov'ts budget for jobs, but it's possible they had more hiring budget for c/o 2010 than they do now. I don't know of a single 3L going into gov't at NU.