CCNB - Public Interest & Quality of Life Forum

[4102011]

This is what UChi says about qualifying jobs:

A graduate must be a paid full-time employee working at least nine months in the calendar year in which the assistance is requested. A graduate must be: (a) engaged in the full-time practice of the law, or in a position normally requiring a law degree; (b) working for the public interest broadly defined; and (c) working for a non-profit organization, defined as a 501(c)(3), government office, or judicial clerkship, other than academia. Graduates employed by the Law School, or those with unpaid positions such as internships and volunteer positions, do not qualify for assistance. Those with questions about eligible postitions should contact the Public Interest Committee. Requests for assistance for part-time work will be considered on a case-by-case basis by the Public Interest Committee. Participants wishing to take a parental leave should petition the Committee; a one year extension may be offered.

[d34d9823]

This is what UChi says about qualifying jobs:

A graduate must be a paid full-time employee working at least nine months in the calendar year in which the assistance is requested. A graduate must be: (a) engaged in the full-time practice of the law, or in a position normally requiring a law degree; (b) working for the public interest broadly defined; and (c) working for a non-profit organization, defined as a 501(c)(3), government office, or judicial clerkship, other than academia. Graduates employed by the Law School, or those with unpaid positions such as internships and volunteer positions, do not qualify for assistance. Those with questions about eligible postitions should contact the Public Interest Committee. Requests for assistance for part-time work will be considered on a case-by-case basis by the Public Interest Committee. Participants wishing to take a parental leave should petition the Committee; a one year extension may be offered.

That's harsh that they exclude academia. On the other hand, if you're so fortunate as to get a position in academia, who cares about the loans anyway?

[worldtraveler]

Some LRAPs include non-tenure track academia. I don't think any include tenure track.

[legalmindedfella]

The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?

[Ghost]

.

[IndyHCKM]

Any quick links that one might look at to learn more about IBR?

[spondee]

The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?

It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.

[Hey-O]

The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?

It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.

Is CLS no longer this way?

[cornellbeez]

NYU - It has the best LRAP out of these schools.

Chicago's LRAP is one of the worst out of the T-14.

[worldtraveler]

The gulf between the degree to which I understand LRAP/IBR & their relevant CCNB differences and the importance of all this is immensely scary.

Sample question: If you work in LRAP-qualifying employment for five years out of these places, and then decide to move to the private sector in some fashion, you're stuck with the full law school debt + some interest since school, correct? Anywhere in this batch where that isn't the case?

This is the case at Berkeley, but it's 120 monthly payments and not 10 years. You can go to the private sector and come back in with no problem.

[Eugenie Danglars]

Any quick links that one might look at to learn more about IBR?

Horse's mouth

[spondee]

It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.

Is CLS no longer this way?

Dunno. I'm a 2L at NYU so my info on CLS is two years old. When I was looking, CLS forgave it's assistance loans at five years.

[chris0805]

It sounds like you would from Chicago, which sucks.

At NYU at least (and Columbia used to be similar), you'd have five years of a typical 10-year payment schedule paid (and forgiven) by NYU. Oversimplifying a bit, you'd be switching to the private sector with only half your loans remaining.

Is CLS no longer this way?

Dunno. I'm a 2L at NYU so my info on CLS is two years old. When I was looking, CLS forgave it's assistance loans at five years.

The bolded is not entirely true. If, under the old plan, you were entitled to 20,000/year forgiveness and, under IBR, they only have to pay 5,000/year, you pay 0 in both scenarios. It means you're probably looking at 150K in loans. That means that after five years in IBR, you're total loans are probably around ~180K because of negative amortization.

Now, at Chicago, you'd just be stuck, with a 180K.

At NYU, they will help you pay that down based on what you would have gotten in the traditional program (15K more a year). So now you get the 75K, but that's no longer half your loans. The difference is owing 75K or 105K at the end of five years.

With interest, that difference ends up being around 35K for NYU or about 130K for Chicago compared to a traditional LRAP. These differences only get worse (and somewhat significantly so) if you have more than 150K in debt).

So when looking at the IBR combination you have to ask yourself (1) Is there any risk that I might switch careers and (2) What is that risk and am I willing to save $X in years 1-5 while risking paying $Y more in years 6-10?

I think NYU has done something amazing in that it pays down some of the negatively amortized debt, which is HUGE in making IBR less of a scary option, but it will still cost you more than a traditional LRAP if you ever switch careers.

[IndyHCKM]

Any quick links that one might look at to learn more about IBR?

Horse's mouth

Thanks!

[mcweanis]

can someone who knows about columbia's lrap compare it nyu and chicago? i have heard both that it is way worse than nyu and that it's comparable

[El_Gallo]

can someone who knows about columbia's lrap compare it nyu and chicago? i have heard both that it is way worse than nyu and that it's comparable

From what I have read they are very comparable and that Columbia's may be slightly better for high paying jobs that qualify.

Does anybody have any anecdotes on how well Chicago places into PI?

[twistedwrister]

can someone who knows about columbia's lrap compare it nyu and chicago? i have heard both that it is way worse than nyu and that it's comparable

From what I have read they are very comparable and that Columbia's may be slightly better for high paying jobs that qualify.

Does anybody have any anecdotes on how well Chicago places into PI?

According to the ABA's data, one person (0.5% of the class) went into PI (--LinkRemoved--). I'm not sure what year the ABA's data reflects.

Only two T14 schools had no DOJ Honors Program hires in 2009-10: Chicago and Cornell (http://www.justice.gov/oarm/arm/hp/lawschools.htm)

[mcweanis]

wow i cant believe ive never seen that aba sheet before! looking at it really makes it look like nyu is the better for me -

better student teacher ratio
more international job placement
less white
slightly lower tuition
equal if not smaller class sizes
many many MANY more clinic openings
almost 4 times as many people employed in PI
bigger better library
higher bar pass rate

of course, this is only stuff that matters to me, and im cherrypicking to reinforce my nyu decision! chicago listed ONE person working in PI 9 months after graduation...

i also want to know what year this data is from

[BruceWayne]

wow i cant believe ive never seen that aba sheet before! looking at it really makes it look like nyu is the better for me -

better student teacher ratio
more international job placement
less white
slightly lower tuition
equal if not smaller class sizes
many many MANY more clinic openings
almost 4 times as many people employed in PI
bigger better library
higher bar pass rate

of course, this is only stuff that matters to me, and im cherrypicking to reinforce my nyu decision! chicago listed ONE person working in PI 9 months after graduation...



i also want to know what year this data is from