Cardozo vs Brooklyn vs Rutgers-Newark vs Hofstra(with 20K)? Forum

[lawfreak]

Just an FYI, Cardozo raised its tuition from $44,600 to $46,224 this year. With a conservative estimate of 4% tuition increases for each of the next three years, you're looking at a sticker price of over $150,000.

That's still 50k less then 200k. A lot of money.

[MrAnon]

About knowing that I want to be a lawyer for certain - When it comes to the actual job of being a lawyer, I feel that it is virtually impossible for anyone to know if they really want to do a certain profession unless they have experienced the work for themselves first-hand. Being that you cannot practice law without going through law school and taking the bar exam, I think that anyone who claims they know for certain they want to be a lawyer before actually practicing as one, is straight out fooling themselves and their families.

You say they are fools but when the first day of class rolls around you will be sitting just the same as them in the same classroom. There are hundreds of jobs that don't require up front investment like this. I strongly encourage you to stay away from these schools.

[rman1201]

If you really just want to be a lawyer and it isn't about the $$$ have you considered CUNY?
It seems like a pretty safe bet, cant go wrong with <$30k debt, and it does well with PI. So you'd get to call yourself a lawyer, help people, have minimal debt, and be in NYC all in one shot.
Even if it is about the money, just do that for a little, pay of the debt, write a solid PS about your experiences in PI, go to B school and profit.

I know that's pretty out there, but that's just what I'd do if I really wanted to be a lawyer and was in your situation.

[lawfreak]

You say they are fools but when the first day of class rolls around you will be sitting just the same as them in the same classroom. There are hundreds of jobs that don't require up front investment like this. I strongly encourage you to stay away from these schools.

Would you rather be a garbage man or a delivery boy, because those jobs definitely don't require any large investment or risk.

[lawfreak]

If you really just want to be a lawyer and it isn't about the $$$ have you considered CUNY?
It seems like a pretty safe bet, cant go wrong with <$30k debt, and it does well with PI. So you'd get to call yourself a lawyer, help people, have minimal debt, and be in NYC all in one shot.
Even if it is about the money, just do that for a little, pay of the debt, write a solid PS about your experiences in PI, go to B school and profit.

I know that's pretty out there, but that's just what I'd do if I really wanted to be a lawyer and was in your situation.

I just checked out your list of schools and no offense, but I noticed that your schools aren't that much better in terms of job prospects and biglaw than Cardozo. In fact, you applied to Cardozo yourself!

[FiveSermon]

If you really just want to be a lawyer and it isn't about the $$$ have you considered CUNY?
It seems like a pretty safe bet, cant go wrong with <$30k debt, and it does well with PI. So you'd get to call yourself a lawyer, help people, have minimal debt, and be in NYC all in one shot.
Even if it is about the money, just do that for a little, pay of the debt, write a solid PS about your experiences in PI, go to B school and profit.

I know that's pretty out there, but that's just what I'd do if I really wanted to be a lawyer and was in your situation.

I just checked out your list of schools and no offense, but I noticed that your schools aren't that much better in terms of job prospects and biglaw than Cardozo. In fact, you applied to Cardozo yourself!

Are you dumb? He is a 167/3.5. He will get into cardozo with tons of $ and likely get into a lot of t20-t30 schools. Get real buddy.

[Grizz]

If you really just want to be a lawyer and it isn't about the $$$ have you considered CUNY?
It seems like a pretty safe bet, cant go wrong with <$30k debt, and it does well with PI. So you'd get to call yourself a lawyer, help people, have minimal debt, and be in NYC all in one shot.
Even if it is about the money, just do that for a little, pay of the debt, write a solid PS about your experiences in PI, go to B school and profit.

I know that's pretty out there, but that's just what I'd do if I really wanted to be a lawyer and was in your situation.

I just checked out your list of schools and no offense, but I noticed that your schools aren't that much better in terms of job prospects and biglaw than Cardozo. In fact, you applied to Cardozo yourself!

Doesn't mean he can't be right, champ.

[rman1201]

If you really just want to be a lawyer and it isn't about the $$$ have you considered CUNY?
It seems like a pretty safe bet, cant go wrong with <$30k debt, and it does well with PI. So you'd get to call yourself a lawyer, help people, have minimal debt, and be in NYC all in one shot.
Even if it is about the money, just do that for a little, pay of the debt, write a solid PS about your experiences in PI, go to B school and profit.

I know that's pretty out there, but that's just what I'd do if I really wanted to be a lawyer and was in your situation.

I just checked out your list of schools and no offense, but I noticed that your schools aren't that much better in terms of job prospects and biglaw than Cardozo. In fact, you applied to Cardozo yourself!

1) I wouldn't have gone to Cardozo without >90% scholarship.
2) Don't turn on the person legitimately trying to help you.
3) BU/UMN/WM/UF >>>>>>>>>>>>> Cardozo

[MrAnon]

Would you rather be a garbage man or a delivery boy, because those jobs definitely don't require any large investment or risk.

You could do sales of any kind including financial adviser, insurance broker, medical device sales, you name it. I am just trying to be helpful. Out of the four schools you name not one of them is a good choice. There are so many other opportunities in life that are better that the answer "don't go to law school" really does outshine the schools as an option.

[Hank Chill]

Would you rather be a garbage man or a delivery boy, because those jobs definitely don't require any large investment or risk.

You could do sales of any kind including financial adviser, insurance broker, medical device sales, you name it. I am just trying to be helpful. Out of the four schools you name not one of them is a good choice. There are so many other opportunities in life that are better that the answer "don't go to law school" really does outshine the schools as an option.

+1

[christmas mouse]

Rman, I just checked your list of schools also and I'm thinking what the hell is up with that Cardozo waitlist? Must be yield protection. You've got some good options, where did u decide on going?

[rman1201]

Rman, I just checked your list of schools also and I'm thinking what the hell is up with that Cardozo waitlist? Must be yield protection. You've got some good options, where did u decide on going?

BU most likely barring a Cornell miracle.
And idk whats with Cardozo, I dont like being the outlier on lsn, everone will assume I have criminal convictions.

[christmas mouse]

Yea I personally think BU is a great choice. You think your minnesota 20k could net u some BU $$$? Might be worth a shot.

OP, i think you should be aware that there is a very real possibility that the top 20% at dozo might be students who got into t20-30's who turned them down for big money at dozo. All im saying is that the top of schools like dozo and BLS are filled with kids who had t20 credentials, will study all day and night, and will work like savages to get those limited big law opportunities. This disclaimer isn't to say you aren't capable of finishing #1 in your section, but really you shouldn't count on it. It's a bad gamble, and I've interned at a couple different firms over the past few years and most dozo attorneys I met were above median, and are doing doc review for free, hating life. Not trying to shit on dozo, but very small alumni base and exceptionally cutthroat environment.

[lawfreak]

2) Don't turn on the person legitimately trying to help you.

rman1201 - I didn't mean to offend you in any way, which is precisely why I wrote "no offense". The reason why I was perplexed as to your selection of law schools is because you told me that you wouldn't want to go to law school if you were in my situation. I was just saying that I noticed you are in a similar situation because you applied to a lot of the same schools that I did, and Cardozo is one of them.

[rman1201]

2) Don't turn on the person legitimately trying to help you.

rman1201 - I didn't mean to offend you in any way, which is precisely why I wrote "no offense". The reason why I was perplexed as to your selection of law schools is because you told me that you wouldn't want to go to law school if you were in my situation. I was just saying that I noticed you are in a similar situation because you applied to a lot of the same schools that I did, and Cardozo is one of them.

I never said I wouldn't go to law school in your situation, I said I would go to CUNY, I wouldn't go to Cardozo at sticker under any situation.
You get in-state + don't need COL Loans which is why CUNY would be an attractive option for reasons I listed above, for non-NYers it would be ridiculous to take out 30k+ per year to attend.

[OGR3]

2) Don't turn on the person legitimately trying to help you.

rman1201 - I didn't mean to offend you in any way, which is precisely why I wrote "no offense". The reason why I was perplexed as to your selection of law schools is because you told me that you wouldn't want to go to law school if you were in my situation. I was just saying that I noticed you are in a similar situation because you applied to a lot of the same schools that I did, and Cardozo is one of them.

I applied from T-20 through TTTT, I knew that I would be paying sticker at GWU and be getting a full scholarship at TTTTs. That doesn't mean I was dumb enough to go to a private T2 in the most competitive market at sticker.

[keg411]

OP, work as a paralegal for a few years to see if you like law; then try and get your LSAT up in the future by getting private tutoring. You already have the good GPA; even a 160 LSAT will greatly increase the amount of $$$ you can get and the schools you can get into.

Otherwise, if you must be hard-headed, go to Rutgers (though going there at sticker isn't really a great idea) and make sure you are willing to live in NJ. Your other choices are all way too expensive.

[funkyturds]

OP, if you're not going to listen to anyone telling you what you don't want to hear, at least go do some more research of your own. From reading your posts, it's clear that you're misinformed about some very important things, e.g. the legal hiring process, current employment prospects, salary distributions, debt repayment, options for those coming out from TTT schools who miss biglaw, etc.


edit: Here are the latest employment figures for NLJ250 firms for the class of 2010. Don't expect these numbers to be much different by the time you do OCI in 1.5 years.

Cardozo - 12.6%
Rutgers - 10.8%

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

[krillas]

Do not go to Cardozo at sticker. /thread

[Justathought]

OP, if you're not going to listen to anyone telling you what you don't want to hear, at least go do some more research of your own. From reading your posts, it's clear that you're misinformed about some very important things, e.g. the legal hiring process, current employment prospects, salary distributions, debt repayment, options for those coming out from TTT schools who miss biglaw, etc.


edit: Here are the latest employment figures for NLJ250 firms for the class of 2010. Don't expect these numbers to be much different by the time you do OCI in 1.5 years.

Cardozo - 12.6%
Rutgers - 10.8%

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I find the wording of this reply is somewhat troublesome. If a portion of your premise is that grads from these two law schools should expect no better than a 15% employment chance at an NLJ250 firm, I agree. However, I don't really know where the OP has discussed any TTT schools, so I don't know why he should need to be aware of the options for candidates from such schools. The article you link cites both schools as "go-to" schools for NLJ250 firms. While I think we can all agree that a school which places 12% of its grads into various NLJ250 firms should hardly be classified as "go-to", the fact is these schools rank among the best 50 in the nation for such prospects. Is this a great thing? No, its like being the richest homeless person in town, or the healthiest of the terminally ill. Still, the fact remains that the vast majority of law schools are in worse shape in terms of large firm placement.

Again, this is not a selling point. This is not a ringing endorsement of the options. I just think that your post comes off as elitist and/or out of touch with the options presented to the vast majority of law school students.

In the interest of full disclosure I'm leaning toward Rutgers now with a moderate scholarship, and I'm quite happy with my decision. However, my situation, for a myriad of reasons, is probably not the same as the OPs, and as such should not be used in his decision process.

[funkyturds]

OP, if you're not going to listen to anyone telling you what you don't want to hear, at least go do some more research of your own. From reading your posts, it's clear that you're misinformed about some very important things, e.g. the legal hiring process, current employment prospects, salary distributions, debt repayment, options for those coming out from TTT schools who miss biglaw, etc.


edit: Here are the latest employment figures for NLJ250 firms for the class of 2010. Don't expect these numbers to be much different by the time you do OCI in 1.5 years.

Cardozo - 12.6%
Rutgers - 10.8%

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I find the wording of this reply is somewhat troublesome. If a portion of your premise is that grads from these two law schools should expect no better than a 15% employment chance at an NLJ250 firm, I agree. However, I don't really know where the OP has discussed any TTT schools, so I don't know why he should need to be aware of the options for candidates from such schools. The article you link cites both schools as "go-to" schools for NLJ250 firms. While I think we can all agree that a school which places 12% of its grads into various NLJ250 firms should hardly be classified as "go-to", the fact is these schools rank among the best 50 in the nation for such prospects. Is this a great thing? No, its like being the richest homeless person in town, or the healthiest of the terminally ill. Still, the fact remains that the vast majority of law schools are in worse shape in terms of large firm placement.

Again, this is not a selling point. This is not a ringing endorsement of the options. I just think that your post comes off as elitist and/or out of touch with the options presented to the vast majority of law school students.

In the interest of full disclosure I'm leaning toward Rutgers now with a moderate scholarship, and I'm quite happy with my decision. However, my situation, for a myriad of reasons, is probably not the same as the OPs, and as such should not be used in his decision process.

cool story bro

[Justathought]

OP, if you're not going to listen to anyone telling you what you don't want to hear, at least go do some more research of your own. From reading your posts, it's clear that you're misinformed about some very important things, e.g. the legal hiring process, current employment prospects, salary distributions, debt repayment, options for those coming out from TTT schools who miss biglaw, etc.


edit: Here are the latest employment figures for NLJ250 firms for the class of 2010. Don't expect these numbers to be much different by the time you do OCI in 1.5 years.

Cardozo - 12.6%
Rutgers - 10.8%

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

I find the wording of this reply is somewhat troublesome. If a portion of your premise is that grads from these two law schools should expect no better than a 15% employment chance at an NLJ250 firm, I agree. However, I don't really know where the OP has discussed any TTT schools, so I don't know why he should need to be aware of the options for candidates from such schools. The article you link cites both schools as "go-to" schools for NLJ250 firms. While I think we can all agree that a school which places 12% of its grads into various NLJ250 firms should hardly be classified as "go-to", the fact is these schools rank among the best 50 in the nation for such prospects. Is this a great thing? No, its like being the richest homeless person in town, or the healthiest of the terminally ill. Still, the fact remains that the vast majority of law schools are in worse shape in terms of large firm placement.

Again, this is not a selling point. This is not a ringing endorsement of the options. I just think that your post comes off as elitist and/or out of touch with the options presented to the vast majority of law school students.

In the interest of full disclosure I'm leaning toward Rutgers now with a moderate scholarship, and I'm quite happy with my decision. However, my situation, for a myriad of reasons, is probably not the same as the OPs, and as such should not be used in his decision process.

Also, I should say that my have read a little more harshly than I intended. That was not an attack on your viewpoint, as I think your advice is sound. My major point was that some of the language used sounded a little deceptive, but not necessarily done so intentionally. I agree that anyone interested in law school should do their due diligence before deciding on a school.

[Columbia Law]

OP did you go to Binghamton?

[FiveSermon]

OP did you go to Binghamton?

Hey. Binghamton is solid.

On topic, did you check the class of 2010 OCI? Dozo barely placed above 10%.

[lawfreak]

OP did you go to Binghamton?

Asshole with no life! I hope you rot in hell