What is your opinion on Cardozo Law School? Forum

[Blindmelon]

T
From what I can tell, most of what's being said about career prospects for Cardozo/Brooklyn/St. Johns grads, doesn't apply to non-trads or URMs.

Well congrats on being special. But most people aren't non-trads or URMs. You may be fine, but a lot of people there will get screwed <- and I'm not being elitist, people at my school are getting screwed too.

[Rule11]

This thread is hilarious. In about 7 months all of the 0L's on this site will realize that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Bashing schools, calling them TTTT, etc. is just foolish. Chances are when you graduate someone with a position superior to yours will be an alum of one of the schools your trashing. And I dare you to insult their alma mater.

From what I can tell, most of what's being said about career prospects for Cardozo/Brooklyn/St. Johns grads, doesn't apply to non-trads or URMs. I've gotten the sense from 3L's at my school that employers value students that have taken time off after undergrad to gain experience and figure out whether or not law school is really for them. Similarly, most of the URMs that I know have offers.

All of the 3L's that had 3 or more years work experience before law school have offers for clerkships, firms, or non-profit organizations. No - most of them dont have offers from biglaw. But lets be honest - whether or not their school is T1 or T4, dont get biglaw. Thats just how it is.

Im a URM, 1L at Cardozo, and I have offers from 2 mid-sized law firms and 2 very well known non-profits for summer positions. I'm also a finalist for the NYC Bar Diversity Fellowship - so I may end up with a biglaw offer. With my work experience, its been very easy for me to get interviews. Our rankings don't come out until June, but I'm sure that I'm not in the top 10%. I might be top 20% though.

In short, even among the putatively successful 3Ls you know, none or almost none have a job that's likely to pay more than a job as a biglaw paralegal (hell, sorry, a biglaw secretary--which is not to dis, because many biglaw secretaries are more valuable than associates to the firm).

But you are right that the economic calculus should be different if you are a URM--the opportunities available are different and generally better. I'm glad to hear that you're doing well so far, but I don't think you should encourage anyone else to follow you until you get a better look at that light at the end of the tunnel. It might not be the gates of heaven you spy, but rather the fires of hell in cruel disguise.

[evilgenius]

This thread is hilarious. In about 7 months all of the 0L's on this site will realize that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

In short, even among the putatively successful 3Ls you know, none or almost none have a job that's likely to pay more than a job as a biglaw paralegal (hell, sorry, a biglaw secretary--which is not to dis, because many biglaw secretaries are more valuable than associates to the firm).

But you are right that the economic calculus should be different if you are a URM--the opportunities available are different and generally better. I'm glad to hear that you're doing well so far, but I don't think you should encourage anyone else to follow you until you get a better look at that light at the end of the tunnel. It might not be the gates of heaven you spy, but rather the fires of hell in cruel disguise.

"fires of hell in cruel disguise". That's kind of dramatic. Lol. I didn't encourage anyone to attend Cardozo. I was just providing my perspective.

And reality check - like most law students dont attend a T14, most attorneys dont work in biglaw. Anyone that attends law school with a biglaw-or-bust mentality is just dumb.

[Grizz]

This thread is hilarious. In about 7 months all of the 0L's on this site will realize that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about.

In short, even among the putatively successful 3Ls you know, none or almost none have a job that's likely to pay more than a job as a biglaw paralegal (hell, sorry, a biglaw secretary--which is not to dis, because many biglaw secretaries are more valuable than associates to the firm).

But you are right that the economic calculus should be different if you are a URM--the opportunities available are different and generally better. I'm glad to hear that you're doing well so far, but I don't think you should encourage anyone else to follow you until you get a better look at that light at the end of the tunnel. It might not be the gates of heaven you spy, but rather the fires of hell in cruel disguise.

"fires of hell in cruel disguise". That's kind of dramatic. Lol. I didn't encourage anyone to attend Cardozo. I was just providing my perspective.

And reality check - like most law students dont attend a T14, most attorneys dont work in biglaw. Anyone that attends law school with a biglaw-or-bust mentality is just dumb.

If you're cool with not working in a big law firm, great, too bad Cardozo is still insanely expensive, NYC COL is insanely expensive, and a lot of the $ I've see given out around here has strings.

[bigkahuna2020]

why the fuck is everyone picking on rule 11? he is the truth like paul pierce.

Does anyone in this country read anymore? OP: Please read the NYT article on law schools. Op, you don't have to listen to anyone's opinions here. Just check the NLJ250 STATS. Check the 08 stats. Even then carbozo was only placing 15-20% of their grads in biglaw. In this economy, I doubt it is more than 10%.

Also check out JD underground. A lot of the users on that site are from brookyln and carbozo.

...it's actually exactly 20.1% in 2009.

[bigkahuna2020]

Let's discuss things maturely like the pre-law students we supposedly are.

lolololololololololololololololololololololololololol

Been here long?

Rad law...it seems like you've got some serious ego/maturity issues or something. May i ask where you're going to law school (or went)?

Oh, and you didn't bother backing up your #3 thing over there, which makes me think you have nothing to say to counter it.

He is a 1L at WUSTL Law

[evilgenius]

If you're cool with not working in a big law firm, great, too bad ____ is still insanely expensive, NYC COL is insanely expensive, and a lot of the $ I've see given out around here has strings.

No need to be so bitter and combative man. You can replace Cardozo with any law school and you'd be in the same situation. It's about considering your career goals and doing a cost-benefit analysis.

[MrAnon]

thexfactor wrote:
why the fuck is everyone picking on rule 11? he is the truth like paul pierce.

Does anyone in this country read anymore? OP: Please read the NYT article on law schools. Op, you don't have to listen to anyone's opinions here. Just check the NLJ250 STATS. Check the 08 stats. Even then carbozo was only placing 15-20% of their grads in biglaw. In this economy, I doubt it is more than 10%.

Also check out JD underground. A lot of the users on that site are from brookyln and carbozo.


...it's actually exactly 20.1% in 2009.

Its actually not. This simply isn't an accurate number of people who were employed by law firms. This is a stat that includes cardozo graduates who are working as glorified paralegals in one and two month assignments as contract attorneys. Their employer is the temp firm that hires them out to sit in a room and review documents on computer all day long. The way the school reports the information makes it appear as if the law firm is the employer. It is not. These are dead end jobs and these folks will never be employed by big firms. Even including these temp attorneys, the number seems awfully high. Are there figures verifiable by any means?

[Grizz]

Let's discuss things maturely like the pre-law students we supposedly are.

lolololololololololololololololololololololololololol

Been here long?

Rad law...it seems like you've got some serious ego/maturity issues or something. May i ask where you're going to law school (or went)?

Oh, and you didn't bother backing up your #3 thing over there, which makes me think you have nothing to say to counter it.

He is a 1L at WUSTL Law

Confusing me w/Romo.

[Grizz]

If you're cool with not working in a big law firm, great, too bad ____ is still insanely expensive, NYC COL is insanely expensive, and a lot of the $ I've see given out around here has strings.

No need to be so bitter and combative man. You can replace Cardozo with any law school and you'd be in the same situation. It's about considering your career goals and doing a cost-benefit analysis.

lol no

[bigkahuna2020]

thexfactor wrote:
why the fuck is everyone picking on rule 11? he is the truth like paul pierce.

Does anyone in this country read anymore? OP: Please read the NYT article on law schools. Op, you don't have to listen to anyone's opinions here. Just check the NLJ250 STATS. Check the 08 stats. Even then carbozo was only placing 15-20% of their grads in biglaw. In this economy, I doubt it is more than 10%.

Also check out JD underground. A lot of the users on that site are from brookyln and carbozo.


...it's actually exactly 20.1% in 2009.

Its actually not. This simply isn't an accurate number of people who were employed by law firms. This is a stat that includes cardozo graduates who are working as glorified paralegals in one and two month assignments as contract attorneys. Their employer is the temp firm that hires them out to sit in a room and review documents on computer all day long. The way the school reports the information makes it appear as if the law firm is the employer. It is not. These are dead end jobs and these folks will never be employed by big firms. Even including these temp attorneys, the number seems awfully high. Are there figures verifiable by any means?

Reported by firms themselves at the NLJ250 publication. Another of the myriad examples of the genuine retardedness of the TLS mob.

Stop talking drivel out of your ass if you don't know the reality, please.

[bigkahuna2020]

Confusing me w/Romo.

Whatever. Some school in a city with cornfields, who knows nothing about the NYC metro area legal market (which is still damned robust if you go out of biglaw---midsized law has been BOOMING in the recession)

[Grizz]

thexfactor wrote:
why the fuck is everyone picking on rule 11? he is the truth like paul pierce.

Does anyone in this country read anymore? OP: Please read the NYT article on law schools. Op, you don't have to listen to anyone's opinions here. Just check the NLJ250 STATS. Check the 08 stats. Even then carbozo was only placing 15-20% of their grads in biglaw. In this economy, I doubt it is more than 10%.

Also check out JD underground. A lot of the users on that site are from brookyln and carbozo.


...it's actually exactly 20.1% in 2009.

Its actually not. This simply isn't an accurate number of people who were employed by law firms. This is a stat that includes cardozo graduates who are working as glorified paralegals in one and two month assignments as contract attorneys. Their employer is the temp firm that hires them out to sit in a room and review documents on computer all day long. The way the school reports the information makes it appear as if the law firm is the employer. It is not. These are dead end jobs and these folks will never be employed by big firms. Even including these temp attorneys, the number seems awfully high. Are there figures verifiable by any means?

Reported by firms themselves at the NLJ250 publication. Another of the myriad examples of the genuine retardedness of the TLS mob.

Stop talking drivel out of your ass if you don't know the reality, please.

He's got a point though. It's probably much less now. By how much, we don't know, but probably a lot.

[bigkahuna2020]

He's got a point though. It's probably much less now. By how much, we don't know, but probably a lot.

He has no data-he is talking out of his ass.

Cardozo's NLJ250 hiring numbers has risen consistently through the recession---I assume it is largely a reputational thing, because if you are over 50, Cardozo is a shit school to you

EDIT--for what it is worth, I would NOT go to Cardozo for anything more than about 10-20k in tuition---I would go to Temple if you didn't get this kind of offer from Cardozo

[nealric]

This thread is hilarious. In about 7 months all of the 0L's on this site will realize that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Bashing schools, calling them TTTT, etc. is just foolish. Chances are when you graduate someone with a position superior to yours will be an alum of one of the schools your trashing. And I dare you to insult their alma mater.

I'm a practicing attorney. Let's get this straight:

There is a difference between advising someone not to go to an expensive lower-ranked school and bashing a school. Cardozo provides a great education and there are certainly very bright and capable people who attend and attended the school. This is true of most law schools. But I would never advise the average 22 year old straight out of a BA in English to go 200k in debt for the school. It's financial Russian roulette with 5 rounds in the revolver. Saying that is no disrespect to current students or alums- it's just the cold truth.

Cardozo's NLJ250 hiring numbers has risen consistently through the recession

Are you privy to data the rest of the world is not? The class of 2010 numbers aren't even out yet (though they are due within the next two weeks or so). Class of 2010 graduates are the first to have gotten offers after the financial meltdown.

[Grizz]

He's got a point though. It's probably much less now. By how much, we don't know, but probably a lot.

He has no data-he is talking out of his ass.

Cardozo's NLJ250 hiring numbers has risen consistently through the recession---I assume it is largely a reputational thing, because if you are over 50, Cardozo is a shit school to you

EDIT--for what it is worth, I would NOT go to Cardozo for anything more than about 10-20k in tuition---I would go to Temple if you didn't get this kind of offer from Cardozo

The data is stale because class off 2009 (latest NLJ data) did OCI in 2007, pre-crash. 2010 is gonna be a LOT lower.

[evilgenius]

This thread is hilarious. In about 7 months all of the 0L's on this site will realize that they have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. Bashing schools, calling them TTTT, etc. is just foolish. Chances are when you graduate someone with a position superior to yours will be an alum of one of the schools your trashing. And I dare you to insult their alma mater.

I'm a practicing attorney. Let's get this straight:

There is a difference between advising someone not to go to an expensive lower-ranked school and bashing a school. Cardozo provides a great education and there are certainly very bright and capable people who attend and attended the school. This is true of most law schools. But I would never advise the average 22 year old straight out of a BA in English to go 200k in debt for the school. It's financial Russian roulette with 5 rounds in the revolver. Saying that is no disrespect to current students or alums- it's just the cold truth.

Cardozo's NLJ250 hiring numbers has risen consistently through the recession

Are you privy to data the rest of the world is not? The class of 2010 numbers aren't even out yet- they are the first to have gotten offers after the financial meltdown.

As I said before, I wasn't advising anyone to go into 200K debt for Cardozo (or any non-Yale law school for that matter). I was just speaking from my experience. That could have also been read as a recommendation to "the average 22 year old" to go out and get work experience. Also, I agree that there's a difference between advising against an expensive lower ranked school and bashing. Unfortunately, on TLS, Above the Law, and similar sites, most of what goes on is bashing.

[bigkahuna2020]

He's got a point though. It's probably much less now. By how much, we don't know, but probably a lot.

He has no data-he is talking out of his ass.

Cardozo's NLJ250 hiring numbers has risen consistently through the recession---I assume it is largely a reputational thing, because if you are over 50, Cardozo is a shit school to you

EDIT--for what it is worth, I would NOT go to Cardozo for anything more than about 10-20k in tuition---I would go to Temple if you didn't get this kind of offer from Cardozo

The data is stale because class off 2009 (latest NLJ data) did OCI in 2007, pre-crash. 2010 is gonna be a LOT lower.

Thanks Nostradamus. I doubt law firms are hiring people they don't need just because they did OCI. That would be inconceivably stupid.

And more importantly, such information is irrelevant to someone attending as the class of 2014

[Grizz]

He's got a point though. It's probably much less now. By how much, we don't know, but probably a lot.

He has no data-he is talking out of his ass.

Cardozo's NLJ250 hiring numbers has risen consistently through the recession---I assume it is largely a reputational thing, because if you are over 50, Cardozo is a shit school to you

EDIT--for what it is worth, I would NOT go to Cardozo for anything more than about 10-20k in tuition---I would go to Temple if you didn't get this kind of offer from Cardozo

The data is stale because class off 2009 (latest NLJ data) did OCI in 2007, pre-crash. 2010 is gonna be a LOT lower.

Thanks Nostradamus. I doubt law firms are hiring people they don't need just because they did OCI. That would be inconceivably stupid.

And more importantly, such information is irrelevant to someone attending as the class of 2014

Don't believe the facts, talk to students, talk to schools, or believe anything you read on ATL. That's cool.

It's relevant because while it's gotten better lately, we don't know by how much, and it may not be back to the level that 2009 grads saw.

[nealric]

As I said before, I wasn't advising anyone to go into 200K debt for Cardozo (or any non-Yale law school for that matter). I was just speaking from my experience.

I wasn't replying to you or anyone in particular. Just the notion that advising against attending the school is equivalent to "bashing". Yeah, straight bashing goes on with sites like ATL and xoxo, but it really is a minority of people on TLS.

[MrAnon]

The math simply doesn't pan out when you compare

http://www.cardozo.yu.edu/MemberContent ... ntid=10310

versus....

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... hbxlogin=1

[Ikki]

I also feel it is very relevent to copy/paste some info from THIS websites profile on Cardozo which paints a very different picture then I'm seeing from these posts:


"Cardozo is a good law school in a great location"

"Job prospects for Cardozo Law are decent for students above median (which by the way sounds a lot better then what some people here were saying)......
"But many firms based in New York that have been forced to cut back on recruiting are still stopping at Cardozo; this is not likely to change given its choice proximity to the offices of so many firms."

"Still, students looking to find work in New York City can do very well at Cardozo. Though it lacks a long history, it is slowly cementing its reputation as a strong feeder school for the New York City market."

I do plan on working in NY by the way.

hahaahha
You've got to be a fucking troll

[bigkahuna2020]

Don't believe the facts, talk to students, talk to schools, or believe anything you read on ATL. That's cool.

It's relevant because while it's gotten better lately, we don't know by how much, and it may not be back to the level that 2009 grads saw.

Already have. I don't believe "anything I read" on ATL, anyone who does has got to be stupid. Nice plug though.

[Stringer6]

OP: Please read the NYT article on law schools.

LOL

Its actually not. This simply isn't an accurate number of people who were employed by law firms. This is a stat that includes cardozo graduates who are working as glorified paralegals in one and two month assignments as contract attorneys. Their employer is the temp firm that hires them out to sit in a room and review documents on computer all day long. The way the school reports the information makes it appear as if the law firm is the employer. It is not. These are dead end jobs and these folks will never be employed by big firms. Even including these temp attorneys, the number seems awfully high. Are there figures verifiable by any means?

and another LOL

[Rule11]

OP: Please read the NYT article on law schools.

LOL

Its actually not. This simply isn't an accurate number of people who were employed by law firms. This is a stat that includes cardozo graduates who are working as glorified paralegals in one and two month assignments as contract attorneys. Their employer is the temp firm that hires them out to sit in a room and review documents on computer all day long. The way the school reports the information makes it appear as if the law firm is the employer. It is not. These are dead end jobs and these folks will never be employed by big firms. Even including these temp attorneys, the number seems awfully high. Are there figures verifiable by any means?

and another LOL

I'm sorry, could you explain the joke?