Hastings v. Davis Forum

[drdolittle]

Although flagship UG's have a lot of political clout, and therefore a more stable supply of public funds

But their operating costs are much, much higher. And like Cal, campuses also blow a bunch of money trying to stay competitive in Div I athletics, while running a deficit (Cal does, not sure about the others). So Hastings should have some unique advantages...

FWIW, at the second Hastings ASD, one of panel profs (Levine, I think) made the point that the school is prepared for reduced state funding, and its impact should not be as significant as it will be at the other UC law schools. Of course this is exactly what I expected to hear at a recruiting event. Is this complete bs?

[20160810]

Although flagship UG's have a lot of political clout, and therefore a more stable supply of public funds

But their operating costs are much, much higher. And like Cal, campuses also blow a bunch of money trying to stay competitive in Div I athletics, while running a deficit (Cal does, not sure about the others). So Hastings should have some unique advantages...

FWIW, at the second Hastings ASD, one of panel profs (Levine, I think) made the point that the school is prepared for reduced state funding, and its impact should not be as significant as it will be at the other UC law schools. Of course this is exactly what I expected to hear at a recruiting event. Is this complete bs?

I can pretty much guarantee the football program, between ticket prices, concessions at games, TV rights, merchandise deals, etc., brings in FAR more money for the university than it requires. Athletics are a profit source for the university.

Go Bears.

[drdolittle]

I think that at this point, especially ITE, number of firms is an OK barometer but the real test is going to be who gets which jobs and with which grades. A lot of firms interview at both schools because they always have, but it doesn't mean they plan on hiring this year.

This is a key point left unaddressed by simply looking at numbers, as people so often do on TLS. An interview is better than no interview, but obviously if a firm has one job and interviews at Stanford, Berkeley & Hastings, it's not hard to see which school will be favored most and least at face value.

[Borhas]

Although flagship UG's have a lot of political clout, and therefore a more stable supply of public funds

But their operating costs are much, much higher. And like Cal, campuses also blow a bunch of money trying to stay competitive in Div I athletics, while running a deficit (Cal does, not sure about the others). So Hastings should have some unique advantages...

FWIW, at the second Hastings ASD, one of panel profs (Levine, I think) made the point that the school is prepared for reduced state funding, and its impact should not be as significant as it will be at the other UC law schools. Of course this is exactly what I expected to hear at a recruiting event. Is this complete bs?

I can pretty much guarantee the football program, between ticket prices, concessions at games, TV rights, merchandise deals, etc., brings in FAR more money for the university than it requires. Athletics are a profit source for the university.

Go Bears.

http://budgetcrisis.berkeley.edu/?page_id=16

doesn't look like it's enough

Total subsidies beginning in 95-96 and extending through the end of 2005/06. $44.6M (per sheets passed out to UAB).

Total deficits beginning in 1991 through the end of 2005/06. $50.5M. $17.4 M of this was forgiven in 1999 and $33.1 has accumulated since then and probably has no chance of ever being repaid so it is a sunk cost (per sheets passed out to UAB).

[20160810]

If you want to get rid of the girls volleyball team, you might as well quit subsidizing happiness itself. Athletics programs were pretty much the only shot we had at getting hot girls to go to Berkeley. Don't screw it up.

[zeth006]

Hastings definitely has more employers right now, but it's pretty proportional atm to the amount of students at Davis vs. Hastings. What kind of public defense options do you guys have? I will say I was disappointed to only see DAs offices interviewing at UCD as of now. Looks like I'll be applying cold for PD work.

I think that at this point, especially ITE, number of firms is an OK barometer but the real test is going to be who gets which jobs and with which grades. A lot of firms interview at both schools because they always have, but it doesn't mean they plan on hiring this year.

That may be comforting for Hastings people, but I'm still kind of that Davis still hasn't shown me any love! Environmentwise, Hastings seems a bit too competitive for this laid back socal beach boy. If Davis doesn't reply by end of this month, it's Hastings for me.

[General Tso]

Hastings definitely has more employers right now, but it's pretty proportional atm to the amount of students at Davis vs. Hastings. What kind of public defense options do you guys have? I will say I was disappointed to only see DAs offices interviewing at UCD as of now. Looks like I'll be applying cold for PD work.

I think that at this point, especially ITE, number of firms is an OK barometer but the real test is going to be who gets which jobs and with which grades. A lot of firms interview at both schools because they always have, but it doesn't mean they plan on hiring this year.

here are all the Govt/Public interest employers coming the Hastings OCI

Alameda DA
Alameda PD
Equal Rights Advocates (SF)
Federal Defenders of San Diego
Federal Public Defender (SF)
Federal Public Defender (San Jose)
Federal Reserve Board
Federal Trade Commission
Legislative Counsel Bureau (Sac)
Natural Resources Defense Council (SF, other offices too)
Pacific Justice Institute (Oak)
D.C. PD
Public Justice (Oak)
Riverside DA
SF DA
Santa Clara County Counsel
Air Force JAG
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE - SF office)
IRS (D.C.)

[20160810]

Hastings definitely has more employers right now, but it's pretty proportional atm to the amount of students at Davis vs. Hastings. What kind of public defense options do you guys have? I will say I was disappointed to only see DAs offices interviewing at UCD as of now. Looks like I'll be applying cold for PD work.

I think that at this point, especially ITE, number of firms is an OK barometer but the real test is going to be who gets which jobs and with which grades. A lot of firms interview at both schools because they always have, but it doesn't mean they plan on hiring this year.

here are all the Govt/Public interest employers coming the Hastings OCI

Alameda DA
Alameda PD
Equal Rights Advocates (SF)
Federal Defenders of San Diego
Federal Public Defender (SF)
Federal Public Defender (San Jose)
Federal Reserve Board
Federal Trade Commission
Legislative Counsel Bureau (Sac)
Natural Resources Defense Council (SF, other offices too)
Pacific Justice Institute (Oak)
D.C. PD
Public Justice (Oak)
Riverside DA
SF DA
Santa Clara County Counsel
Air Force JAG
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE - SF office)
IRS (D.C.)

This is still a pretty lackluster list, but it's out-and-out superior to the OCI PI options at UCD right now. No contest.

[General Tso]

SBL I dont know how many norcal PDs are even hiring paid attorneys. Last I heard SF and Marin Co. have been hiring only unpaid, temporary attorneys. Normally SF PD would have been at Hastings.

[20160810]

SBL I dont know how many norcal PDs are even hiring paid attorneys. Last I heard SF and Marin Co. have been hiring only unpaid, temporary attorneys. Normally SF PD would have been at Hastings.

Yep. Most of them are either on a freeze or hiring bullshit "temporary unpaid" attorneys where you work for free until Bar results come back in Nov. and then they "re-decide" whether they want to continue employing you with an actual paycheck.

Counties is muthafuckin' BROKE right now. I will be applying to PD's offices out of state for that reason, but I'm still hoping I can pull off a cold app to some of the CA offices.

[General Tso]

That may be comforting for Hastings people, but I'm still kind of that Davis still hasn't shown me any love! Environmentwise, Hastings seems a bit too competitive for this laid back socal beach boy. If Davis doesn't reply by end of this month, it's Hastings for me.

it's not as competitive as you'd think. i may seem like the ultra-gunner on TLS but i am actually very laid back in person. i've never swapped grades with anyone at school. i was actually pretty surprised how laid back Hastings really is, because like you I was expecting gunners galore.

[Borhas]

SBL I dont know how many norcal PDs are even hiring paid attorneys. Last I heard SF and Marin Co. have been hiring only unpaid, temporary attorneys. Normally SF PD would have been at Hastings.

Counties is muthafuckin' BROKE right now. I will be applying to PD's offices out of state for that reason, but I'm still hoping I can pull off a cold app to some of the CA offices.

hey that's my plan, well actually I'm kind of at the mercy of CA finding some money this time 2 years from now

what happened to Sac-Town mid-law?

[zeth006]

That may be comforting for Hastings people, but I'm still kind of that Davis still hasn't shown me any love! Environmentwise, Hastings seems a bit too competitive for this laid back socal beach boy. If Davis doesn't reply by end of this month, it's Hastings for me.

it's not as competitive as you'd think. i may seem like the ultra-gunner on TLS but i am actually very laid back in person. i've never swapped grades with anyone at school. i was actually pretty surprised how laid back Hastings really is, because like you I was expecting gunners galore.

Wasn't because of you. The New Yorklike atmosphere plus the fact that Berkeley and Stanford grads tend to be quite prevalent intimidates me somewhat.

[General Tso]

Wasn't because of you. The New Yorklike atmosphere plus the fact that Berkeley and Stanford grads tend to be quite prevalent intimidates me somewhat.

In a normal economy, B and S grads tend to move around the country quite a bit. Hastings, USF, Davis, Golden Gate make up about 75% of the attorneys in the Bay Area.

[Great Satchmo]

That may be comforting for Hastings people, but I'm still kind of that Davis still hasn't shown me any love! Environmentwise, Hastings seems a bit too competitive for this laid back socal beach boy. If Davis doesn't reply by end of this month, it's Hastings for me.

it's not as competitive as you'd think. i may seem like the ultra-gunner on TLS but i am actually very laid back in person. i've never swapped grades with anyone at school. i was actually pretty surprised how laid back Hastings really is, because like you I was expecting gunners galore.

Wasn't because of you. The New Yorklike atmosphere plus the fact that Berkeley and Stanford grads tend to be quite prevalent intimidates me somewhat.

T-14 graduates are going to be in any major market that is even remotely nice to live in (much less a place like SF).

The city is pretty laid back in general, as long as you find the right neighborhood.

As for the school...well...I guess I'll be finding out!

[apropos]

Hastings definitely has more employers right now, but it's pretty proportional atm to the amount of students at Davis vs. Hastings. What kind of public defense options do you guys have? I will say I was disappointed to only see DAs offices interviewing at UCD as of now. Looks like I'll be applying cold for PD work.

I think that at this point, especially ITE, number of firms is an OK barometer but the real test is going to be who gets which jobs and with which grades. A lot of firms interview at both schools because they always have, but it doesn't mean they plan on hiring this year.

here are all the Govt/Public interest employers coming the Hastings OCI

Alameda DA
Alameda PD
Equal Rights Advocates (SF)
Federal Defenders of San Diego
Federal Public Defender (SF)
Federal Public Defender (San Jose)
Federal Reserve Board
Federal Trade Commission
Legislative Counsel Bureau (Sac)
Natural Resources Defense Council (SF, other offices too)
Pacific Justice Institute (Oak)
D.C. PD
Public Justice (Oak)
Riverside DA
SF DA
Santa Clara County Counsel
Air Force JAG
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE - SF office)
IRS (D.C.)

This is still a pretty lackluster list, but it's out-and-out superior to the OCI PI options at UCD right now. No contest.

I know this thread has expired, but the last thing we need is a whole nother Davis/Hastings thread.

Does anyone know what the Govt/PI OCI looked like at Davis?

From reading the many Davis/Hastings threads, and looking at the numbers, it seems like the schools have virtually identical employment prospects, but does one or the other do better in SoCal and San Diego specifically?
I see Hastings had SoCal employers at OCI, did Davis's look similar?

Thanks. I'm trying to get my preferences aligned and this is a fairly large factor.

[tea_drinker]

here are all the Govt/Public interest employers coming the Hastings OCI

Alameda DA
Alameda PD
Equal Rights Advocates (SF)
Federal Defenders of San Diego
Federal Public Defender (SF)
Federal Public Defender (San Jose)
Federal Reserve Board
Federal Trade Commission
Legislative Counsel Bureau (Sac)
Natural Resources Defense Council (SF, other offices too)
Pacific Justice Institute (Oak)
D.C. PD
Public Justice (Oak)
Riverside DA
SF DA
Santa Clara County Counsel
Air Force JAG
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE - SF office)
IRS (D.C.)

Does anyone know what the Govt/PI OCI looked like at Davis?

I want to know the answer to this question too, as I Davis is 15 minutes from my home and I am seriously considering moving back home.

with that being said, I think I can speculate a little bit here. From the list above, you see most govt/PI employers recruit UCH grads are from the South Bay/East Bay. I think you will see more Sac-based govt/PI employers do OCI at UCD.

[20160810]

Hastings definitely has more employers right now, but it's pretty proportional atm to the amount of students at Davis vs. Hastings. What kind of public defense options do you guys have? I will say I was disappointed to only see DAs offices interviewing at UCD as of now. Looks like I'll be applying cold for PD work.

I think that at this point, especially ITE, number of firms is an OK barometer but the real test is going to be who gets which jobs and with which grades. A lot of firms interview at both schools because they always have, but it doesn't mean they plan on hiring this year.

here are all the Govt/Public interest employers coming the Hastings OCI

Alameda DA
Alameda PD
Equal Rights Advocates (SF)
Federal Defenders of San Diego
Federal Public Defender (SF)
Federal Public Defender (San Jose)
Federal Reserve Board
Federal Trade Commission
Legislative Counsel Bureau (Sac)
Natural Resources Defense Council (SF, other offices too)
Pacific Justice Institute (Oak)
D.C. PD
Public Justice (Oak)
Riverside DA
SF DA
Santa Clara County Counsel
Air Force JAG
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE - SF office)
IRS (D.C.)

This is still a pretty lackluster list, but it's out-and-out superior to the OCI PI options at UCD right now. No contest.

I know this thread has expired, but the last thing we need is a whole nother Davis/Hastings thread.

Does anyone know what the Govt/PI OCI looked like at Davis?

From reading the many Davis/Hastings threads, and looking at the numbers, it seems like the schools have virtually identical employment prospects, but does one or the other do better in SoCal and San Diego specifically?
I see Hastings had SoCal employers at OCI, did Davis's look similar?

Thanks. I'm trying to get my preferences aligned and this is a fairly large factor.

I can't speak to Hastings specifically, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's about the same there since the two schools place almost identically: The idea that Davis and Hastings "trap" anyone in Northern California is patently false. Most of the people who stay in Sac/SF do so because of self-selection, but there are a lot of SoCal employers who come to Davis, and if you have the grades it's VERY easy to find work in LA/OC/SD. I personally interviewed with firms in all three of those areas this fall, though I ended up accepting an offer in the Bay Area.

[tea_drinker]

I can't speak to Hastings specifically, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's about the same there since the two schools place almost identically: The idea that Davis and Hastings "trap" anyone in Northern California is patently false. Most of the people who stay in Sac/SF do so because of self-selection, but there are a lot of SoCal employers who come to Davis, and if you have the grades it's VERY easy to find work in LA/OC/SD. I personally interviewed with firms in all three of those areas this fall, though I ended up accepting an offer in the Bay Area.

SBL, are you a current student at UCD (just curious)?

[20160810]

I can't speak to Hastings specifically, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's about the same there since the two schools place almost identically: The idea that Davis and Hastings "trap" anyone in Northern California is patently false. Most of the people who stay in Sac/SF do so because of self-selection, but there are a lot of SoCal employers who come to Davis, and if you have the grades it's VERY easy to find work in LA/OC/SD. I personally interviewed with firms in all three of those areas this fall, though I ended up accepting an offer in the Bay Area.

SBL, are you a current student at UCD (just curious)?

Yes.

[apropos]

here are all the Govt/Public interest employers coming the Hastings OCI

Alameda DA
Alameda PD
Equal Rights Advocates (SF)
Federal Defenders of San Diego
Federal Public Defender (SF)
Federal Public Defender (San Jose)
Federal Reserve Board
Federal Trade Commission
Legislative Counsel Bureau (Sac)
Natural Resources Defense Council (SF, other offices too)
Pacific Justice Institute (Oak)
D.C. PD
Public Justice (Oak)
Riverside DA
SF DA
Santa Clara County Counsel
Air Force JAG
US Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE - SF office)
IRS (D.C.)

This is still a pretty lackluster list, but it's out-and-out superior to the OCI PI options at UCD right now. No contest.

I know this thread has expired, but the last thing we need is a whole nother Davis/Hastings thread.

Does anyone know what the Govt/PI OCI looked like at Davis?

From reading the many Davis/Hastings threads, and looking at the numbers, it seems like the schools have virtually identical employment prospects, but does one or the other do better in SoCal and San Diego specifically?
I see Hastings had SoCal employers at OCI, did Davis's look similar?

Thanks. I'm trying to get my preferences aligned and this is a fairly large factor.

I can't speak to Hastings specifically, but I'd bet my bottom dollar it's about the same there since the two schools place almost identically: The idea that Davis and Hastings "trap" anyone in Northern California is patently false. Most of the people who stay in Sac/SF do so because of self-selection, but there are a lot of SoCal employers who come to Davis, and if you have the grades it's VERY easy to find work in LA/OC/SD. I personally interviewed with firms in all three of those areas this fall, though I ended up accepting an offer in the Bay Area.

Hey SBL. Thanks. I keep seeing your Hank Moodey avatar. You've provided a lot of helpful info on Davis around here. I'm quite interested in the school.

So that's good to here. Is your impression that it's the same for PI/Govt as well? Do you happen to know which employers from the above Hastings came to Davis as well? Federal Defenders of San Diego?

[20160810]

I am not personally interested in PI/Gov work, so I can't say a lot about what we offer, but I know several people who have worked for the Federal Defenders from UCD, however I believe it was always in Sac, not SD. Still anything is possible, you just sometimes need to apply on your own and do legwork. Sorry I can't be of more help - I kinda limited my own job search to private litigation work, so that's what I know.

[General Tso]

I am not personally interested in PI/Gov work, so I can't say a lot about what we offer, but I know several people who have worked for the Federal Defenders from UCD, however I believe it was always in Sac, not SD. Still anything is possible, you just sometimes need to apply on your own and do legwork. Sorry I can't be of more help - I kinda limited my own job search to private litigation work, so that's what I know.

I heard from a guy at Hastings who had a Federal Defenders offer that it's a volunteer thing that doesn't lead to post-graduation employment. He was told that right now they are only hiring people 1+ year out of school who have done Federal clerkships.

[20160810]

I am not personally interested in PI/Gov work, so I can't say a lot about what we offer, but I know several people who have worked for the Federal Defenders from UCD, however I believe it was always in Sac, not SD. Still anything is possible, you just sometimes need to apply on your own and do legwork. Sorry I can't be of more help - I kinda limited my own job search to private litigation work, so that's what I know.

I heard from a guy at Hastings who had a Federal Defenders offer that it's a volunteer thing that doesn't lead to post-graduation employment. He was told that right now they are only hiring people 1+ year out of school who have done Federal clerkships.

This is what makes me nervous about PI summers. I like PI, but I want to KNOW I have a job after 3L.

[stonepeep]

I heard from a guy at Hastings who had a Federal Defenders offer that it's a volunteer thing that doesn't lead to post-graduation employment. He was told that right now they are only hiring people 1+ year out of school who have done Federal clerkships.

Yeah, the SF Federal PD interviewer at OCI said that most of their hires tend to be people who have done clerkships and worked in biglaw for a few years.