In at Chicago! Forum

[johnstuartmill]

<joeyP> two questions. 1. does need based aid really exist? 2. if aid was given to nearly every student with numbers in a given range except one or two is it fair to assume that the aid office doesn't really like those one or two students very much for some reason?

joeyP, taking no prisoners!

[0L Hoping for 1]

<joeyP> two questions. 1. does need based aid really exist? 2. if aid was given to nearly every student with numbers in a given range except one or two is it fair to assume that the aid office doesn't really like those one or two students very much for some reason?

joeyP, taking no prisoners!

What did she say to that??

[nixxers]

<joeyP> two questions. 1. does need based aid really exist? 2. if aid was given to nearly every student with numbers in a given range except one or two is it fair to assume that the aid office doesn't really like those one or two students very much for some reason?

joeyP, taking no prisoners!

What did she say to that??

yeah wow

[dakatz]

Very upset that I got no merit aid, but I didn't really expect anything. What I don't understand is how I don't get any grant or need-based aid. I am paying for school almost all by myself and have very little money to my name. I understand that they take parent situation into account due to Need Access, but that form clearly indicates that my parents will have 2 kids in college/grad school next year, so it still makes no sense.

[captainkirk]

<joeyP> two questions. 1. does need based aid really exist? 2. if aid was given to nearly every student with numbers in a given range except one or two is it fair to assume that the aid office doesn't really like those one or two students very much for some reason?

joeyP, taking no prisoners!

What did she say to that??

<kvargas> we offer aid based on need and merit combined.
<kvargas> we consider both when making an offer.
<tiredofwinter> Do you give ED applicants any need or merit aid?
<kvargas> yes, sometimes we do. every year is different.

[miamiman]

re: joeyp

that's the kind of no-nonsense, lawyer-like attitude that'll make him PARTNER one day.

[miamiman]

Very upset that I got no merit aid, but I didn't really expect anything. What I don't understand is how I don't get any grant or need-based aid. I am paying for school almost all by myself and have very little money to my name. I understand that they take parent situation into account due to Need Access, but that form clearly indicates that my parents will have 2 kids in college/grad school next year, so it still makes no sense.

dont worry! class of 2009 employment median salary was 160k!!!!

[johnstuartmill]

<joeyP> two questions. 1. does need based aid really exist? 2. if aid was given to nearly every student with numbers in a given range except one or two is it fair to assume that the aid office doesn't really like those one or two students very much for some reason?

joeyP, taking no prisoners!

What did she say to that??

<kvargas> we offer aid based on need and merit combined.
<kvargas> we consider both when making an offer.
<tiredofwinter> Do you give ED applicants any need or merit aid?
<kvargas> yes, sometimes we do. every year is different.

Yet we can use empirical data and Mill's methods to demonstrate that this is actually not the case.

[dakatz]

Very upset that I got no merit aid, but I didn't really expect anything. What I don't understand is how I don't get any grant or need-based aid. I am paying for school almost all by myself and have very little money to my name. I understand that they take parent situation into account due to Need Access, but that form clearly indicates that my parents will have 2 kids in college/grad school next year, so it still makes no sense.

dont worry! class of 2009 employment median salary was 160k!!!!

Lol oh joy, who needs financial aid anyway! I had a feeling they would mention that crap in their letter in order to say, "sure your not deserving of a penny of grant or scholarships, but hey, its all good, son"

[johnstuartmill]

Very upset that I got no merit aid, but I didn't really expect anything. What I don't understand is how I don't get any grant or need-based aid. I am paying for school almost all by myself and have very little money to my name. I understand that they take parent situation into account due to Need Access, but that form clearly indicates that my parents will have 2 kids in college/grad school next year, so it still makes no sense.

dont worry! class of 2009 employment median salary was 160k!!!!

Yes, most people above median will get scholarships and will have 160k jobs waiting for them when they get out, and most people below median will get no grants and no guarantee of a job that will enable them to pay off their loans. The rich get richer, my friend.

[dakatz]

Very upset that I got no merit aid, but I didn't really expect anything. What I don't understand is how I don't get any grant or need-based aid. I am paying for school almost all by myself and have very little money to my name. I understand that they take parent situation into account due to Need Access, but that form clearly indicates that my parents will have 2 kids in college/grad school next year, so it still makes no sense.

dont worry! class of 2009 employment median salary was 160k!!!!

Yes, most people above median will get scholarships and will have 160k jobs waiting for them when they get out, and most people below median will get no grants and no guarantee of a job that will enable them to pay off their loans. The rich get richer, my friend.

Exactly. And ITE, looks like you really need to be at least top half to still feel even relatively secure about anything. I simply can't risk 200K on a gamble that I will do better than 50% of my class. Even just a little bit of scholarship or grant money would have tempted me to take that gamble, but without anything, it seems like too big a risk to me. Perhaps there are those with very high numbers who feel confident in their ability to finish high in their class. I am not one of those people.

[miamiman]

Very upset that I got no merit aid, but I didn't really expect anything. What I don't understand is how I don't get any grant or need-based aid. I am paying for school almost all by myself and have very little money to my name. I understand that they take parent situation into account due to Need Access, but that form clearly indicates that my parents will have 2 kids in college/grad school next year, so it still makes no sense.

dont worry! class of 2009 employment median salary was 160k!!!!

Yes, most people above median will get scholarships and will have 160k jobs waiting for them when they get out, and most people below median will get no grants and no guarantee of a job that will enable them to pay off their loans. The rich get richer, my friend.

if things really gets tight, ill just start securitizing shit, sell it to another person as valuable, and collect my bonus.

[johnstuartmill]

ITT: johnstuartmill realizes that his impoverished upbringing precludes him from becoming a law professor.

[miamiman]

Exactly. And ITE, looks like you really need to be at least top half to still feel even relatively secure about anything. I simply can't risk 200K on a gamble that I will do better than 50% of my class. Even just a little bit of scholarship or grant money would have tempted me to take that gamble, but without anything, it seems like too big a risk to me. Perhaps there are those with very high numbers who feel confident in their ability to finish high in their class. I am not one of those people.

In all seriousness:

(1) there are very law schools offering a better hedge on your investment
(2) im not sure it's exactly top half but it's something like that. maybe top 2/3 at UofC
(3) so what are you going to do?

[MeasuredOptimism]

Joining the kvetching about the no aid email.

I wasn't assuming any merit, but hoping (172/3.9). I was really disappointed about the apparent non-existence of need-based aid though. This will probably make Chicago completely unfeasible for me.

I wonder if this is a result of my late Need Access app (submitted 2/15).

[skynet]

She said five people haven't received letters yet at the beginning of the chat.

I feel really special to be one of only five.

[gahthelaw]

it almost makes me feel worse to have not gotten anything to hear her say that they reread everyone's file and base it on academic achievement instead of a cold metric. it means 'we actually just didn't like you very much.'

[Ernst Cassier]

re: joeyp

that's the kind of no-nonsense, lawyer-like attitude that'll make him PARTNER one day.

funny how quickly everyone seems to change their opinion of yours truly.

[dakatz]

Exactly. And ITE, looks like you really need to be at least top half to still feel even relatively secure about anything. I simply can't risk 200K on a gamble that I will do better than 50% of my class. Even just a little bit of scholarship or grant money would have tempted me to take that gamble, but without anything, it seems like too big a risk to me. Perhaps there are those with very high numbers who feel confident in their ability to finish high in their class. I am not one of those people.

In all seriousness:

(1) there are very law schools offering a better hedge on your investment
(2) im not sure it's exactly top half but it's something like that. maybe top 2/3 at UofC
(3) so what are you going to do?

It might have been top 2/3 getting the real big jobs back when the economy was good, but it sure isn't now. The Class of 2009 figures had Chicago at just over 50% getting NLJ250 firm jobs. That percentage will continue to drop for the next few years of classes, because those class of 2009 figures were compiled all the way back when the economy was still fine. It could be under 50% getting those jobs for the current classes. I'd much rather go to a school for nearly free that places their top 1/3 into biglaw jobs. Its still a gamble, but even if I should fail and finish toward the bottom of my class, which is a realistic possibility anywhere I go, then at least I will have no debt.

[miamiman]

Exactly. And ITE, looks like you really need to be at least top half to still feel even relatively secure about anything. I simply can't risk 200K on a gamble that I will do better than 50% of my class. Even just a little bit of scholarship or grant money would have tempted me to take that gamble, but without anything, it seems like too big a risk to me. Perhaps there are those with very high numbers who feel confident in their ability to finish high in their class. I am not one of those people.

In all seriousness:

(1) there are very law schools offering a better hedge on your investment
(2) im not sure it's exactly top half but it's something like that. maybe top 2/3 at UofC
(3) so what are you going to do?

It might have been top 2/3 getting the real big jobs back when the economy was good, but it sure isn't now. The Class of 2009 figures had Chicago at just over 50% getting NLJ250 firm jobs. That percentage will continue to drop for the next few years of classes, because those class of 2009 figures were compiled all the way back when the economy was still fine. It could be under 50% getting those jobs for the current classes. I'd much rather go to a school for nearly free that places their top 1/3 into biglaw jobs. Its still a gamble, but even if I should fail and finish toward the bottom of my class, which is a realistic possibility anywhere I go, then at least I will have no debt.

totally reasonable given the circumstances. From ppl I've spoken to who are current 2Ls, about 75% got SAs and my understanding is that firms are not in the business of no-offering kids. This might be a bit optimistic but I don't think it's median or bust.

[johnstuartmill]

I don't like the expected value problem here. If I go to Chicago, I'll be shelling out $200k with a probability of 1. In return, I'll either be getting a good job with some unknown probability p, or a not good job with the probability (1-p). Fuck.

[miamiman]

I don't like the expected value problem here. If I go to Chicago, I'll be shelling out $200k with a probability of 1. In return, I'll either be getting a good job with some unknown probability p, or a not good job with the probability (1-p). Fuck.

bro, you show me a school outside of HY that isn't feeling it. Even kids at H got fucked last year. You need to make a choice about whether ls in the aggregate is worth it to you. Beyond the probablistic analysis.

[Kretzy]

I don't like the expected value problem here. If I go to Chicago, I'll be shelling out $200k with a probability of 1. In return, I'll either be getting a good job with some unknown probability p, or a not good job with the probability (1-p). Fuck.

bro, you show me a school outside of HY that isn't feeling it. Even kids at H got fucked last year. You need to make a choice about whether ls in the aggregate is worth it to you. Beyond the probablistic analysis.

S

[johnstuartmill]

I think I'll just suck it up, write a law review article about how differences in risk aversion perpetuate socioeconomic divisions, and get a teaching job. Those aren't hard to get, right?

[miamiman]

I think I'll just suck it up, write a law review article about how differences in risk aversion perpetuate socioeconomic divisions, and get a teaching job. Those aren't hard to get, right?

i think the only thing harder than getting an associate gig at a big firm is getting a tenure-track professorship at a university.

might as well flip burgers.