Reading about all this negativity about law school.. Forum

[mightymikek83]

Hi everyone. I'm brand new to TLS and I love this place so far. It's been very helpful as to looking into law schools or just gaining a lot of information that I didn't know before regarding law.

I have some time before I can even apply to law schools but I always want to know the positives and negatives. I learned not to bother with T3 or T4 schools and to try my best to get into the T14 schools or basically the T1's.

Where all this law school applying is driving me nuts is I keep reading about how it's a waste of money and a financial disaster. I love the idea of law and I couldn't imagine doing anything else. I just don't know what else these people who are writing that law school is a waste of time expect someone who has dreams of attending are supposed to do? (I even read on Forbes it's a waste..)

I come here because I searched throughout these forums looking for the negatives and positives; I wasn't sure what recent grads positions are as of right now or even people who graduated in the last few years.

Thanks so much!

[mightymikek83]

NM! I just found a great post from someone recently on the subject of recent grads. I must have missed that one during the search.

If you still want to respond, feel free.

Thank you

[DoubleChecks]

Hi everyone. I'm brand new to TLS and I love this place so far. It's been very helpful as to looking into law schools or just gaining a lot of information that I didn't know before regarding law.

I have some time before I can even apply to law schools but I always want to know the positives and negatives. I learned not to bother with T3 or T4 schools and to try my best to get into the T14 schools or basically the T1's.

Where all this law school applying is driving me nuts is I keep reading about how it's a waste of money and a financial disaster. I love the idea of law and I couldn't imagine doing anything else. I just don't know what else these people who are writing that law school is a waste of time expect someone who has dreams of attending are supposed to do? (I even read on Forbes it's a waste..)

I come here because I searched throughout these forums looking for the negatives and positives; I wasn't sure what recent grads positions are as of right now or even people who graduated in the last few years.

Thanks so much!


aspiring law school student.

if you love the law and want to work as a lawyer, go for it. the point is to be smart about it. if you are debt averse, maybe choose that lower ranked school that gives a full scholly rather than the higher ranked one at sticker (assuming both are in the same 'local' market you plan to work in). of course, if one is ranked T20 and the other is ranked Top3, maybe go w/ the Top3. but then again, maybe not.

and i think that is the sort of tug-of-war applicants should be doing now. it is a "buyers beware" market. it doesnt mean DONT BUY. just be smart about it; know what your goals truly are, what you are happy with, and what sort of debt you can handle because jobs out of law school that help you pay down the $150k debt are diminishing (in spots available). law is NOT a license to print money (wasnt really true pre-ITE anyways, but ITE, EVEN LESS realistic of a sentiment).

[General Tso]

if you can't get into a T14, go to the best school where you can graduate with under 70k debt. I think 70k is a good debt limit because financial experts recommend taking on no more debt than you expect to make in the first year after school. Most first year lawyers probably make in the 50-60k range, but I think 70k is acceptable only because the long-term earning power of a lawyer is better than in most fields.

[mightymikek83]

if you can't get into a T14, go to the best school where you can graduate with under 70k debt. I think 70k is a good debt limit because financial experts recommend taking on no more debt than you expect to make in the first year after school. Most first year lawyers probably make in the 50-60k range, but I think 70k is acceptable only because the long-term earning power of a lawyer is better than in most fields.

I live near a Tier 4 school called Western New England College School of Law. I know it's bad news since of the tier is falls into but if I went to that school however I would be in no debt because it has a part time program and the job I currently have pays well enough as to where I could afford my loans to be paid off come graduation.

I think that would be last resort though..

[tea_drinker]

I think I may be an outlier here on TLS in terms of law school and its gloomy financial outlook, but by the same token, should all high school graduates not go to private colleges/universities? Or not major in social science, literature, etc.?

I agree with doublechecks that you need to be smart when choosing law school, but establishing a $70K limit is a little over the edge.

[MrAnon]

by the same token, should all high school graduates not go to private colleges/universities? Or not major in social science, literature, etc.?

Not all, but many who do go are throwing away good money to do so for degrees they will never recoup the true cost of. And since the job market dictates that there is an overabundant supply of unemployed and underemployed B.A. holders of social science and literature degrees then YES, many of them should NOT be in those majors. Why on earth would you pay $100,000 and spend 4 years of your life to major in something that there is no demand for? It defies common sense. But liberal arts majors and law school students do it all the time. Learn math and science, whether it makes you happy or not. Just because the schools are there does not mean they must be filled to the brim with students.

[bigben]

It sounds like you have no clue about what it is really like to be a lawyer of any type. That's OK; you have no way of knowing. But do not say "I know for sure that I want to be a lawyer" when you have no idea what it means to be a lawyer. It makes you sound like a fool, because it is a foolish and illogical statement. I am not saying this to be mean, I am actually saying this to help you.

So how do you find out what it means to be a lawyer? Go work for an attorney for the experience. Research and learn about all the the different types of lawyer jobs out there. What is the work like, what it pays, what are the hours, etc. Then, decide which of these jobs you want. This might include your ideal job as well as a number of other jobs that you would be happy with. Research the people who have these jobs. See what their qualifications are. Go find them and ask them in person what it takes to get their job. Do other general research on what it takes to get these particular jobs.

Now you have a list of jobs that you want and you what it takes to get them. Now just go do it!

A few final pieces of advice. (1) Be careful not to pay too much for law school for your expected salary. Many, many students have this problem. (2) Never assume that you will get top 10% grades in law school or even top 50%. Can you take a measured risk/gamble? Absolutely! Just be clear that you're taking a risk and have a plan for your worst case scenario. (3) Don't be afraid to face the facts if you find that it is just not plausible for you to obtain the kind of career that you want as a lawyer, either because you don't like it or you simply can't obtain what you think you would like. This is not giving up, this is just being rational. (4) BE FOCUSED. Focused, motivated people get jobs. Other people don't. Don't ever say that you FOR SURE want to be a lawyer when you have no idea what kind of lawyer you might want to be or what it means to be a lawyer.

[Aqualibrium]

This has to be a flame. I mean there just cant be people stupid enough to post their first and last name AND the city they live in on the internet. Right?

[Veyron]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

[tea_drinker]

Learn math and science, whether it makes you happy or not. Just because the schools are there does not mean they must be filled to the brim with students.

I agree with these two sentences, but not your whole post. Sure, students should choose their major in consideration of the job market. However, they should not let the job market drives their decision. If you look back 10 years ago or so, computer science was the top major pick. Then, companies shift jobs overseas, and those who study comp sci have nothing to do. Teachers will need to be classroom. Judges and lawyers will need to be in court room. Police and law enforcers will need to be physically present.

Edit: anyhow, we would not be here at all if we are too afraid of how gloomy the legal job market is.

[Aqualibrium]

Usually[missing comma]in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Irony.

[r6_philly]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

[Aqualibrium]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

Does command of the English language include spelling? Apparently not.

Irony.

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

[r6_philly]

I never claimed to be good at English. Search if you don't believe me.

[r6_philly]

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

This does not make sense. If I can't write properly, I can't expect my editors to write properly?

[r6_philly]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

Does command of the English language include spelling? Apparently not.

Irony.

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

I am a little sick today, so bear with me cuz I am slow. There is no spelling mistake in that sentence? You imply there is a mistake (and yes I did make it) ... but it still holds true and spelling error free.

[Aqualibrium]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

Does command of the English language include spelling? Apparently not.

Irony.

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

I am a little sick today, so bear with me cuz I am slow. There is no spelling mistake in that sentence? You imply there is a mistake (and yes I did make it) ... but it still holds true and spelling error free.

To be fair, there was no spelling mistake in your post or the person whose post you quoted. However, you did highlight the fact that he used the word "sold" instead of solid. You noted that this was a spelling mistake, which it was, but it really is more accurate to call it a grammatical error. You then made the same type of spelling mistake/grammatical error in your post.

I had no interest in correcting you, I just found it ironic that you would make the same mistake you ribbed someone else for making.

Also, my point was more about not being an ass on the internet, or at least not making mistakes while being one, than anything else.

[tea_drinker]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

Does command of the English language include spelling? Apparently not.

Irony.

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

You are my (freaky) idol.

[r6_philly]

I had no interest in correcting you, I just found it ironic that you would make the same mistake you ribbed someone else for making.

I can call a quarterback on TV an idiot for throwing an interception while not having the ability to throw the ball 10% as far. I don't think the ability to do something properly is required to be able to call someone out for a mistake.

Also, my point was more about not being an ass on the internet, or at least not making mistakes while being one, than anything else.

Why? It's the Internet. Yes you are supposed to capitalize it.

[r6_philly]

.

[Aqualibrium]

.

I see.

[Veyron]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

Does command of the English language include spelling? Apparently not.

Irony.

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

Hypocrisy is for the privileged few.

[r6_philly]

.

I see.

That was for your fan, I didn't want to bring him into it cuz I am tired.

I see you didn't want to respond to the other one.

[ResolutePear]

Usually in order to be a lawyer, you have to have a sold command of the English language. You seem to be a bit lacking in this field.

Does this hold true in a non-English speaking county or do they just live without lawyers?

By the way, does command of the English language include spelling?

Does command of the English language include spelling? Apparently not.

Irony.

(Seriously kids, don't attempt to hold others to a standard you can't uphold)

Hypocrisy is for the privileged few.

Lies.