Self-study advice Forum

[lawst_]

Hi guys,
I'll be taking IL for the 3rd time in July. It sucks, I hate it, I hate bar prep, and I'm not looking forward to this, so please no negativity.

I took Barbri the first time around and thought it was okay but was not happy with the MBE prep (which is where I struggle). I took Barbri the second time around because it was free, but really only used the CMR, watched the MBE topic lectures, and supplemented with MBE books a friend gave me from Kaplan. I also had Emanuel MBE (which I started using way too late for it to be of use) and Critical Pass flash cards.

My only real option this time around is to self-study. I can't afford another bar course and I work full time with an hour+ commute to and from work every day so I'm not sure paying for a full bar course (even if I could) would be helpful. My time for studying is pretty limited during the week (at most 3 hours per weekday) and will mostly be happening on the weekends. I do plan to enroll in Adaptibar because I need all the MBE help I can get, but as for substantive stuff, all I'll have is 2015 Barbri and Kaplan materials, Emanuel's MBE, and Critical Pass cards.

Does anyone have any advice for how I can get started? I'd love to hear from self-study people or others on how to make a doable schedule given my constraints with work.

FWIW, my essay scores were mostly 4s and 5s, with one 3.5. I can write pretty well, but I cannot learn the MBE for the life of me.

[arc1138]

Wow, this is EXACTLY me right now. (2nd time taking though) I used Themis first go around and failed.
Now, i have NO CHOICE but to work full time and try to pass somehow. I have the Critical Pass cards because
I did notecards in Law School; but TBH i find theres too much fucking info on each card!
I prefer more cards with one concept on each one.

I just made a thread about MLER, which im thinking about trying, other than that i have Barbri 2015 lectures and Themis books.
I think im just intimidated by the whole process and how little time I have. I really need someone to give me something positive, or some advice on how to do this.

I guess if anything, this will let you know that youre not alone. I live in the Yorkville area and commute to Palos everyday to do discovery at a divorce law firm. I hate it.

If you figure something out, maybe PM me and we could study together or something on the weekends.

sigh

[iowalum]

I studied on my own the second time while working full time and passed. I did Barbri the first time as well and did not find it helpful. Honestly the Kaplan PMBR book saved me for the MBE, I even saw some (almost) exact fact patterns on the real thing. Especially when you don't have a lot of time (I did about 3 hours after work, often studied on lunch breaks, and about 5-6 hours a day on weekends), drilling questions is key. I focused way too much the first time around on big concepts, but the second time I focused a lot more on recognizing question patterns and learning what the MBE wanted. About 4 days a week I would do 30-50 questions, at first just in one category then later on I'd mix them up. Closer to the test I was drilling almost every day. I also did one-pagers for each of my state's essays and basically memorized them. Mnemonics also were a big help on the MBE, as well as sourcing study materials from a couple different companies to get different perspectives if you don't understand something. But really, my advice is just to drill, drill, drill. I did about 1200 questions and I probably should have done more, but it worked out for me. Once you get in the rhythm, it doesn't feel as bad the day of.

Good luck

[lawst_]

I studied on my own the second time while working full time and passed. I did Barbri the first time as well and did not find it helpful. Honestly the Kaplan PMBR book saved me for the MBE, I even saw some (almost) exact fact patterns on the real thing. Especially when you don't have a lot of time (I did about 3 hours after work, often studied on lunch breaks, and about 5-6 hours a day on weekends), drilling questions is key. I focused way too much the first time around on big concepts, but the second time I focused a lot more on recognizing question patterns and learning what the MBE wanted. About 4 days a week I would do 30-50 questions, at first just in one category then later on I'd mix them up. Closer to the test I was drilling almost every day. I also did one-pagers for each of my state's essays and basically memorized them. Mnemonics also were a big help on the MBE, as well as sourcing study materials from a couple different companies to get different perspectives if you don't understand something. But really, my advice is just to drill, drill, drill. I did about 1200 questions and I probably should have done more, but it worked out for me. Once you get in the rhythm, it doesn't feel as bad the day of.

Good luck

Thank you so much, I really appreciate this! I, too, spent a ton of time memorizing big concepts but found myself not recognizing the fine points of law that came up on the exam.

This might be a dumb question but I don't have my Kaplan books that my friend gave me handy -- what is the PMBR book? I've read about it on here but I don't recognize it by that acronym. I tried googling it but it brought me to some $800 7 day course.

[iowalum]

I studied on my own the second time while working full time and passed. I did Barbri the first time as well and did not find it helpful. Honestly the Kaplan PMBR book saved me for the MBE, I even saw some (almost) exact fact patterns on the real thing. Especially when you don't have a lot of time (I did about 3 hours after work, often studied on lunch breaks, and about 5-6 hours a day on weekends), drilling questions is key. I focused way too much the first time around on big concepts, but the second time I focused a lot more on recognizing question patterns and learning what the MBE wanted. About 4 days a week I would do 30-50 questions, at first just in one category then later on I'd mix them up. Closer to the test I was drilling almost every day. I also did one-pagers for each of my state's essays and basically memorized them. Mnemonics also were a big help on the MBE, as well as sourcing study materials from a couple different companies to get different perspectives if you don't understand something. But really, my advice is just to drill, drill, drill. I did about 1200 questions and I probably should have done more, but it worked out for me. Once you get in the rhythm, it doesn't feel as bad the day of.

Good luck

Thank you so much, I really appreciate this! I, too, spent a ton of time memorizing big concepts but found myself not recognizing the fine points of law that came up on the exam.

This might be a dumb question but I don't have my Kaplan books that my friend gave me handy -- what is the PMBR book? I've read about it on here but I don't recognize it by that acronym. I tried googling it but it brought me to some $800 7 day course.

The PMBR is also called the Red Book, basically just a (huge) book of questions, answers, and explanations. This is the exact one I used: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/1821076783 ... noapp=true but I got it for like $180 (this one is way overpriced). It came with a Civ Pro supplement since it's a 2012 version, but everything else is still relevant, like I said some of the fact patterns were almost exact on the real thing.

If you spread out your drilling you should be able to do this book in its entirety at least once, definitely a good idea to do sections more than once so you can recognize the patterns. The MBE sucks because it tests patterns more than law... but you can learn to defeat it!

[blueapple08]

I know you said another bar course is out of the question, but have you considered Adaptibar? Barbri's MBE questions are not, at least in my opinion, that representative of actual MBE questions. Adaptibar costs a little under $400 and you can get $50 off if someone refers you (i can refer you if you'd like). The nice thing about Adaptibar is that it learns where your weak areas are so you can focus your time on those subjects. The more affordable option, however, would be getting a hold of Kaplan's PMBR and do it at your pace. I would also recommend looking into Critical Pass flashcards. Good luck!

[Jss]

Hi there. I am also working and studying right up until the exam. I am using the criticalpass flashcards, barmax and also have the big Kaplan book. Is it worth it to get adapti bar as well? I have an old Barbri conviser but find it too detailed for my study purposes. Good luck!

[Jss]

Wow, this is EXACTLY me right now. (2nd time taking though) I used Themis first go around and failed.
Now, i have NO CHOICE but to work full time and try to pass somehow. I have the Critical Pass cards because
I did notecards in Law School; but TBH i find theres too much fucking info on each card!
I prefer more cards with one concept on each one.

I just made a thread about MLER, which im thinking about trying, other than that i have Barbri 2015 lectures and Themis books.
I think im just intimidated by the whole process and how little time I have. I really need someone to give me something positive, or some advice on how to do this.

I guess if anything, this will let you know that youre not alone. I live in the Yorkville area and commute to Palos everyday to do discovery at a divorce law firm. I hate it.

If you figure something out, maybe PM me and we could study together or something on the weekends.

sigh

I agree re the cards, I am breaking them down further to memorise. The cards are good but more like outlines....

[justonemoregame]

First timer self-studying for VA. I have a lot of time to put into the MBE and feel like I have a good strategy for that, but I'm not sure how to approach the state-specific stuff? I have last year's Kaplan material, so for VA it's one fat book of outlined material, a workbook, and a bar points book. Would appreciate any thoughts on an approach, assuming I should put in maybe three full weeks, leaving five weeks for MBE. Thanks.

[nachosrgood]

Join us over here:
http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6#p9360606

[squiggle]

Hi there. I am also working and studying right up until the exam. I am using the criticalpass flashcards, barmax and also have the big Kaplan book. Is it worth it to get adapti bar as well? I have an old Barbri conviser but find it too detailed for my study purposes. Good luck!

I'm also using Barbri Conviser in conjunction with CriticalPass. I've been adding info from the Conviser to my flashcard, and the two line up closely. This way I get some of the distinctions that the cards are too general to include. Adding info from the Conviser has also been a good review (I've taken the bar in 2 other states and now doing UBE). Once I'm done, I can put the Conviser away and review MBE just using the cards.

I'm using both the Kaplan book and Adaptibar. Each has its advantages.

Adaptibar shows a breakdown of each subtopic and gives you targeted questions to help you improve in weak areas. It also shows you the percentage of students who choose each answer, and shows how many students overall and in your state got the question correct. There's also an analysis of your timing habits, including the average amount of time given by someone answering the question correctly. It's also portable (I do questions on my phone when I have a few minutes--in line at the grocery store, before hearings at work, etc). A chunk of Adaptibar's 1700 questions are real MBE questions released by NCBE, but I'm not a huge fan of the civ pro questions (but I'm not sure that anyone has good civ pro questions yet). I have a discount code for $50; just PM me with the email address you'd like to register with.

There's something to be said for doing questions on paper, because that's what you'll be doing on exam day. That's part of why I decided to go with the Kaplan questions in the big book, which is pretty legendary. I also think that Kaplan questions are closer to real MBE questions that Barbri. I also like the answers descriptions that Kaplan has.

Just my 2 cents, but I hope it helps! Let me know if you have any questions. Good luck and happy studying!

[Johann]

Hi guys,
I'll be taking IL for the 3rd time in July. It sucks, I hate it, I hate bar prep, and I'm not looking forward to this, so please no negativity.

I took Barbri the first time around and thought it was okay but was not happy with the MBE prep (which is where I struggle). I took Barbri the second time around because it was free, but really only used the CMR, watched the MBE topic lectures, and supplemented with MBE books a friend gave me from Kaplan. I also had Emanuel MBE (which I started using way too late for it to be of use) and Critical Pass flash cards.

My only real option this time around is to self-study. I can't afford another bar course and I work full time with an hour+ commute to and from work every day so I'm not sure paying for a full bar course (even if I could) would be helpful. My time for studying is pretty limited during the week (at most 3 hours per weekday) and will mostly be happening on the weekends. I do plan to enroll in Adaptibar because I need all the MBE help I can get, but as for substantive stuff, all I'll have is 2015 Barbri and Kaplan materials, Emanuel's MBE, and Critical Pass cards.

Does anyone have any advice for how I can get started? I'd love to hear from self-study people or others on how to make a doable schedule given my constraints with work.

FWIW, my essay scores were mostly 4s and 5s, with one 3.5. I can write pretty well, but I cannot learn the MBE for the life of me.

baroutlines.com It's like $50 and gives you outlines for the subjects and multiple choice question bank. read the 6 MBE subject outlines over and over on your way to work every day. do 30 questions at night (more on weekends). go through each question you missed in excruciating detail as to why you missed it - what point of the rule did you break down in. document your %s in each MBE category and then when you have like 1000 questions under your belt look at the subjects giving you the most problems.

Do work on those areas.

[rinkrat19]

So I used Barbri and failed OR the first try. Second time around, I was working full time so I had to study more efficiently. I didn't watch a single video. Passed.

I spent 90% of my time reading the CMR (so the Critical Pass flashcards are basically equivalent) and doing Barbri, Adaptibar, and Emanuel practice MBE questions. I did sets of like 10 questions per subject of the subjects I'd reviewed so far in the CMR. Later on I'd do 10 from each subject or a mixed set of 50 or so.
Then I'd review the answers, both right and wrong. In a notebook, I wrote down the rule statement for every single correct answer. Some rules you end up writing down a bunch of times, and some only once. The notebook is just a random stream of rule statements but it is the MBE boiled right down. I'd read through past pages of rule statements every once in a while. Totally serious tip: Pick a nice notebook and a pen you enjoy. I swear that making the ACT of writing being enjoyable makes a difference for me. My notebook of choice is by Oxford, paper made of stone (chalk+resin, I think technically) that I can only find at Walgreens. With a smooth rollerball or gel pen, it's like writing on silk.

Then with about a month left, I started with essays. I would outline an answer to a sample question and then grade it on the rubric. If I was feeling extra lazy, I'd read the prompt then go right to the rubric and try to honestly check off the things I could honestly say I would have included. (I tried to be really harsh, so my scores were appropriately terrible.) I read as many sample essay answers in the barbri book as I could and I'd outline the answers. Write down more rule statements in the notebook (obviously essays have more than one).

I didn't practice the MPT at all this time.

[rcharter1978]

I passed CA the second time. IMO, you just have to use what works for you. And that may take some time to figure out.

They say to be like a sheep in Barbri....and maybe thats true.....but Barbri didn't really work for me. It only frustrated me because I couldn't keep up and in a struggle to keep up, I became burned out so I just wanted to give up.

Find what works for you. What worked for me was a mish mash of all sorts of strange shit that none of you would want to do and some stuff that makes real sense.

The strangest thing that helped me was to almost re-write the lecture notes. For some reason, as I would type it would force my mind to read everything, internalize it, analyze it and match it with other concepts. It would also help me to recognize where I might have holes in my knowledge, which I could then fill in with the CMR or big book information. When I would re-review a topic....sometimes (not all the time) I would take the typed notes and re-type them in more of an outline form....which further would help me to internalize the information and make logical connections. I know its really weird, but it worked for me.

The Critical Pass flashcards were cool....but I had a tutor, was using the CMR and my notes, was enrolled in AdaptiBar and a bar repeaters course.....I just didn't have much time for the flashcards, and I knew that the MBE's weren't the problem. The essays and PT's were my big problems.

For essays = tutor + notes + bar repeater course.

In the bar repeater course, the professor (my former law school dean) would have us do two full essays and 50 mbe questions a day. Everything you missed you had to type out in red. Every night you sent her the work. I sort of slacked off, but I probably ended up doing more essays than I had the first time around.

The tutor also took 3-4 essays a week.

For PT's = tutor + that PT book with the red and orange cover.

I think I did a lot better on the PT's this time around because I had the formatting from the book and a method for organizing information. Invaluable!

The book is great if you're like me and you've never really written a memo after 1L, and you like clearly defined rules. It had each basic style/assignment and how you should format it...organize it. This took a load off of my mind because there wasn't any guesswork. Everyone will tell you that in the papers you'll get an "example," but that wasn't enough for me....I didn't want to have to guess or figure it out.

[L_William_W]

This is just ADVICE. I can't be held liable if the advice doesn't work...

Don't waste your time listening to lectures. It's passive studying and you're not actively engaging in the material. Instead, buy some used Barbri books on Amazon and make YOUR OWN outlines using that material. Also, get the big Kaplan book. Like another person said, it's roughly the same level of difficulty as the real thing (and as a repeater, I can attest). Enroll in the Ameribar essay grader course. It's not a full bar review course, but they'll review your essays and critique it. And based on experience, they grade harder than the real examiners.