Themis Bar Review Hangout - July 2014 Exam Forum

[Lasers]

going over all the mbe questions from the simulated test takes forever...but it's somewhat helpful.

i dunno, but the simulation questions seemed harder (and longer) than the ones online, so i'm pretty worried. got 127 total and i feel like even though i made a lot of dumb mistakes, it was harder than i expected and i was guessing on way too many.

probably gonna have to spend more time on the mbe than i'd like considering how behind i am on the essays.

[Tanicius]

going over all the mbe questions from the simulated test takes forever...but it's somewhat helpful.

i dunno, but the simulation questions seemed harder (and longer) than the ones online, so i'm pretty worried. got 127 total and i feel like even though i made a lot of dumb mistakes, it was harder than i expected and i was guessing on way too many.

probably gonna have to spend more time on the mbe than i'd like considering how behind i am on the essays.

I like Pushaw's commentary for the most part, but his whole "Now if you got this wrong, you probably got emotional" is getting real annoying. No Pushaw. I got it wrong because it's a fucking novel-length question and you're not sitting there taking this test under timed conditions.

[Genuine4ps]

This should lighten the mood some. Check out what my grader thought about my intro to my Family Law essay:

This legal memorandum discusses the age old question "Can you turn a woman of loose moral character into a housewife?" Legal scholars have debated this topic for years with both sides presenting compelling evidence. However, as discussed infra, I have found the answer to this complex and elusive question to be a resounding no. (You may think you’re being witty, and you may hope that you’re being funny, but you are more likely to offend your grader with your sexist comments and you’re lack of seriousness for the exam than you are to make them laugh. And they may try to grade your essay objectively, but the arrogance you’ve shown by wasting time writing this paragraph will probably influence how they grade your writing. So, why take that chance?)

Understandably, my grader was upset however. He went on to award a measly 27 points on this essay without one more shred of commentary, presumably out of frustration for my dumb intro. Obviously, I would never do this on the real bar exam. However, I try to make my studying somewhat enjoyable considering I am in big law and thus working 10+ hours a day as well as trying to pass this exam. Oh well. If I really am fucking up so bad that I am only getting around 1/4 of the points, I wish I could have some constructive commentary.

If you really want constructive comments, I'd send your grader a message, apologize for the intro, and ask specific questions about the rest of your essay. Yeah, it's the grader's job to give you feedback and you shouldn't have to apologize for what is clearly a joke, but if you actually want his feedback, that's probably the only way to get it. They're less likely to blow off your message if you ask direct questions about your essay, since all of that will be in the paper trail on your account. The grader (and Themis) won't want to deal with a later complaint along the lines of "Sure, I joked around on an essay, but I apologized and followed up with questions and my grader still won't help me."

I felt like my grader's comments on my first few essays were sort of generic and unhelpful, so I started asking her direct questions about certain things and since then, she seems to have put more time into writing feedback. It went from a few words here and there ("missed X issue" "good organization") to full explanations and advice. No guarantee your grader will be the same, but I think once mine figured out that I was taking this seriously, things changed for the better.

Done! We will see what he has to say.

Nah, s/he was out of line. You are a customer, and unless you deliberately insulted him or her, they shouldn't be talking down to you like that. They should have simply said, "I know you're just making a joke, but make sure you don't on the exam. This stuff is serious."

I could understand if s/he was doing this for free (e.g., charity). In that case you're wasting their time. But you're paying them.

[Lasers]

going over all the mbe questions from the simulated test takes forever...but it's somewhat helpful.

i dunno, but the simulation questions seemed harder (and longer) than the ones online, so i'm pretty worried. got 127 total and i feel like even though i made a lot of dumb mistakes, it was harder than i expected and i was guessing on way too many.

probably gonna have to spend more time on the mbe than i'd like considering how behind i am on the essays.

I like Pushaw's commentary for the most part, but his whole "Now if you got this wrong, you probably got emotional" is getting real annoying. No Pushaw. I got it wrong because it's a fucking novel-length question and you're not sitting there taking this test under timed conditions.

seriously, if i see a question the length of the entire page, i might consider reading the answers first then skimming the question and making an educated guess.

[crossingforHYS]

going over all the mbe questions from the simulated test takes forever...but it's somewhat helpful.

i dunno, but the simulation questions seemed harder (and longer) than the ones online, so i'm pretty worried. got 127 total and i feel like even though i made a lot of dumb mistakes, it was harder than i expected and i was guessing on way too many.

probably gonna have to spend more time on the mbe than i'd like considering how behind i am on the essays.

I like Pushaw's commentary for the most part, but his whole "Now if you got this wrong, you probably got emotional" is getting real annoying. No Pushaw. I got it wrong because it's a fucking novel-length question and you're not sitting there taking this test under timed conditions.

seriously, if i see a question the length of the entire page, i might consider reading the answers first then skimming the question and making an educated guess.

Also his whole "if you memorize this should be easy".....no.....shi*

[northwood]

going over all the mbe questions from the simulated test takes forever...but it's somewhat helpful.

i dunno, but the simulation questions seemed harder (and longer) than the ones online, so i'm pretty worried. got 127 total and i feel like even though i made a lot of dumb mistakes, it was harder than i expected and i was guessing on way too many.

probably gonna have to spend more time on the mbe than i'd like considering how behind i am on the essays.

I like Pushaw's commentary for the most part, but his whole "Now if you got this wrong, you probably got emotional" is getting real annoying. No Pushaw. I got it wrong because it's a fucking novel-length question and you're not sitting there taking this test under timed conditions.

seriously, if i see a question the length of the entire page, i might consider reading the answers first then skimming the question and making an educated guess.

Also his whole "if you memorize this should be easy".....no.....shi*

if you teach a bar prep course for many years you should have memorized it all by now and can teach it backwards and forwards... ergo good for you buddy

[Tanicius]

if you teach a bar prep course for many years you should have memorized it all by now and can teach it backwards and forwards... ergo good for you buddy

His end-of-lecture advice for Property:

"In short, try to get to the point where you've memorized the technical black letter law. That is the easiest way to pass this part of the exam."

Mmk.

[Lasers]

looking at my breakdowns, my scores for property have dropped significantly on the MBE since it was fresh...i haven't reviewed it in 2-3 weeks and i think i've forgotten everything.

i think i'm gonna have to go back and do an in-depth review for a few of the subjects.

[numbertwo88]

looking at my breakdowns, my scores for property have dropped significantly on the MBE since it was fresh...i haven't reviewed it in 2-3 weeks and i think i've forgotten everything.

i think i'm gonna have to go back and do an in-depth review for a few of the subjects.

I'm having the same problem ... this is going to be a LONG week

Thankfully it's almost over and we're all going to pass.

[blue920]

looking at my breakdowns, my scores for property have dropped significantly on the MBE since it was fresh...i haven't reviewed it in 2-3 weeks and i think i've forgotten everything.

i think i'm gonna have to go back and do an in-depth review for a few of the subjects.

I'm having the same problem ... this is going to be a LONG week

Thankfully it's almost over and we're all going to pass.

Seriously. My brother was asking me some legal questions (because as a soon-to-be lawyer I must know everything that has ever been decided about the law ever, right?) and I was trying to recall some constitutional law concept and totally blanking.

[Genuine4ps]

looking at my breakdowns, my scores for property have dropped significantly on the MBE since it was fresh...i haven't reviewed it in 2-3 weeks and i think i've forgotten everything.

i think i'm gonna have to go back and do an in-depth review for a few of the subjects.

I'm having the same problem ... this is going to be a LONG week

Thankfully it's almost over and we're all going to pass.

Seriously. My brother was asking me some legal questions (because as a soon-to-be lawyer I must know everything that has ever been decided about the law ever, right?) and I was trying to recall some constitutional law concept and totally blanking.

Yes, i'm sick of getting asked legal questions. EVEN IF we knew the bar material backwards and forwards, we could still only scratch the surface of a legal question.

[Lasers]

looking at my breakdowns, my scores for property have dropped significantly on the MBE since it was fresh...i haven't reviewed it in 2-3 weeks and i think i've forgotten everything.

i think i'm gonna have to go back and do an in-depth review for a few of the subjects.

I'm having the same problem ... this is going to be a LONG week

Thankfully it's almost over and we're all going to pass.

speak for yourself. i seriously think i could fail.

[bport hopeful]

I know this question was being discussed earlier, but am in the middle of a practice section and couldnt find it quickly. I believe it was posed differently then, but was similar. This version seems to make more sense.

Police arrested a suspect for criminal trespass. On two occasions, five minutes apart, police had observed the suspect within the fenced-in grounds of a cooperative. The entrances to the cooperative displayed "No Trespassing" signs. Upon approaching the suspect, the police learned from the suspect that he did not live in the cooperative and was on the cooperative grounds without a particular purpose. Under state law, criminal trespass is defined as entering and occupying real property with the specific intent to dispossess those lawfully entitled to possession. Based on reasonable suspicions, police arrested the suspect for criminal trespass. The police had probable cause to arrest the suspect for an unrelated misdemeanor that was punishable only by fine. A search of the suspect subsequent to his arrest uncovered illegal drugs. The suspect was charged with possession of illegal drugs. Asserting that his arrest was unconstitutional, the suspect moved to suppress the illegal drugs and dismiss the charge.

Should the court rule that the suspect's arrest was constitutional?
A. Yes, because the police had reasonable suspicion that the suspect had committed criminal trespass.
B. Yes, because the police had probable cause to arrest the suspect for an unrelated crime.
C. No, because the police lacked probable cause to arrest the suspect for criminal trespass or a related crime.
D. No, because the police had probable cause to arrest the suspect for only a non-jailable misdemeanor.
Correct: Answer choice B is correct. If the police have probable cause to arrest a suspect for a crime, the arrest is not constitutionally unreasonable simply because the police inform the suspect that he has been arrested for another crime for which the police lack probable cause. Answer choice A is incorrect because police can stop but cannot arrest a suspect on the basis of reasonable suspicion that the suspect has committed a specific crime. Answer choice C is incorrect because an arrest is valid if the police have probable cause to arrest a suspect for any crime, not just a crime that is related to crime for which the police have informed the suspect he is being arrested. Answer choice D is incorrect because an arrest of a suspect for a non-jailable misdemeanor does not constitute an unreasonable seizure.

Probably not that helpful to anyone, but maybe..

[Xifeng]

I like Pushaw's commentary for the most part, but his whole "Now if you got this wrong, you probably got emotional" is getting real annoying. No Pushaw. I got it wrong because it's a fucking novel-length question and you're not sitting there taking this test under timed conditions.

That was SO annoying. No I did not get that question wrong because I can't control my feelings about fairness, it is because I have not memorized every single detail of every single law you fuckhead.

But I have seen my MBE scores on the practice sets go up after watching that whole review, so that's something.

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

Has anyone on here completed both the Themis 200 question practice MBE and the NCBE released exams on Adaptibar? Just wondering which you thought was better. I've done two of the exams on Adaptibar and thought they were helpful. Deciding which one to do next. I've heard mixed things about the Themis one. If it's similar to the real thing & helpful, I want to take it, but if it's full of crazy long made up questions like some of the practice ones, I'm might skip it. Just printed out the essay exam for tomorrow. Will be a miracle if I'm ready for that thing!

[bport hopeful]

What has been everybody's average essay scores? A good score for me has been like a 70 (NY). Most of my classmates have been getting consistent 15-18 (PA, Barbri). This seems high or mine seems super low.

[northwood]

What has been everybody's average essay scores? A good score for me has been like a 70 (NY). Most of my classmates have been getting consistent 15-18 (PA, Barbri). This seems high or mine seems super low.

7/10 is very good

[bport hopeful]

What has been everybody's average essay scores? A good score for me has been like a 70 (NY). Most of my classmates have been getting consistent 15-18 (PA, Barbri). This seems high or mine seems super low.

7/10 is very good

Thats good news. Wonder why these PA Barbri kids are having such better results?

[northwood]

What has been everybody's average essay scores? A good score for me has been like a 70 (NY). Most of my classmates have been getting consistent 15-18 (PA, Barbri). This seems high or mine seems super low.

7/10 is very good

Thats good news. Wonder why these PA Barbri kids are having such better results?

perhaps their essays are scaled differently, or there are more issues to spot and PA wants a word vomit/ issue dumping? It seems NY is very pointed with what they want you to talk about, except for those lovely " discuss all available claims and defenses"

[Tanicius]

Can someone help me with this question?

132 on the Simulation MBE. Woman leaves her car overnight with mechanic, who replaces her tires with bad tires, and brings her good tires to the back of his shop and leaves them there until the woman demands he give her back her tires, and he complies.

Pushaw's explanation is that she gave consent to have the car there, so it was not a trespassory taking of her property, and it therefore can't be a valid larceny conviction. But isn't the moving of the tires to another part of the shop with intent to deprive her of the property an example of that, for which she clearly did not give consent?

[iLoveFruits&Veggies]

What has been everybody's average essay scores? A good score for me has been like a 70 (NY). Most of my classmates have been getting consistent 15-18 (PA, Barbri). This seems high or mine seems super low.

7/10 is very good

Thats good news. Wonder why these PA Barbri kids are having such better results?

I'm not sure it says much about how well they're doing on the essays compared to others. It's hard enough to compare grading amongst all the different graders within one bar review program, but comparing graders in Barbri vs. Themis is a real stretch since they might have entirely different strategies/rubrics when it comes to grading. I've been reviewing a lot of "model" answers & student answers amongst different programs the past week and they are all SO different! It's a little disconcerting. I keep bouncing back between, "oh, themis is best, I'll memorize the rules and structure in those" "oh, barbri is best," "oh, no the Bar Code essays are definitely best," and "oh heck, I should just stick with the model answers on the CA Bar site." lol! It's crazy!

[Xifeng]

Can someone help me with this question?

132 on the Simulation MBE. Woman leaves her car overnight with mechanic, who replaces her tires with bad tires, and brings her good tires to the back of his shop and leaves them there until the woman demands he give her back her tires, and he complies.

Pushaw's explanation is that she gave consent to have the car there, so it was not a trespassory taking of her property, and it therefore can't be a valid larceny conviction. But isn't the moving of the tires to another part of the shop with intent to deprive her of the property an example of that, for which she clearly did not give consent?

But if you had to show that they clearly didn't give consent to something like that, then embezzlement wouldn't be a thing. I got that wrong too, but I kind of get it now.

[Tanicius]

This is twice now that, during the evidence analysis lectures, Pushaw has claimed there is no duty under the FRE to give the witness an opportunity to explain or deny impeaching statements. I'm getting very confused by this, because it flatly contradicts what we learned in the lecture series on Evidence.

[Prime]

Can someone help me with this question?

132 on the Simulation MBE. Woman leaves her car overnight with mechanic, who replaces her tires with bad tires, and brings her good tires to the back of his shop and leaves them there until the woman demands he give her back her tires, and he complies.

Pushaw's explanation is that she gave consent to have the car there, so it was not a trespassory taking of her property, and it therefore can't be a valid larceny conviction. But isn't the moving of the tires to another part of the shop with intent to deprive her of the property an example of that, for which she clearly did not give consent?

I still don't understand this question. I'm stuck on the tire part myself.

[SisyphusHappy]

Does each state scale its own MBE for its own test-takers? This is a thing I should know, but don't.