Asking About Recession during Interviews/Callbacks? Forum

[clearparallel]

My law school's Office of Career Services suggested that it would be appropriate to ask during screener interviews or callbacks about whether the law firm anticipates a downturn and how the law firm is planning to navigate that. Would this be an appropriate topic to bring up during OCI? I'm pretty worried about how law firms in the past have handled recessions, after having read many posts about summers being no-offered or second year associates being let go in a rough economy where they'd have difficulty finding comparable work.
But my gut instinct is that bringing it up during OCI is probably not helpful, because even if you do ask these questions, it's not like a law firm is going to tell potential summer associates any information that would suggest potential layoffs or job insecurity later down the road, and I'm worried it may signal to the interviewer that I would not be enthusiastic about their firm.

[JusticeChuckleNutz]

My law school's Office of Career Services suggested that it would be appropriate to ask during screener interviews or callbacks about whether the law firm anticipates a downturn and how the law firm is planning to navigate that. Would this be an appropriate topic to bring up during OCI? I'm pretty worried about how law firms in the past have handled recessions, after having read many posts about summers being no-offered or second year associates being let go in a rough economy where they'd have difficulty finding comparable work.
But my gut instinct is that bringing it up during OCI is probably not helpful, because even if you do ask these questions, it's not like a law firm is going to tell potential summer associates any information that would suggest potential layoffs or job insecurity later down the road, and I'm worried it may signal to the interviewer that I would not be enthusiastic about their firm.

Lol, No. Do not bring this up at a screener or callback.

[_PopTorts_]

I think it would be perfectly appropriate to ask about the firm's outlook given the economic uncertainty of the present environment (potentially entrenched inflation, increasing interest rates, etc.), and I think it could show a level of maturity that might differentiate you from the typical law student interviewee. Like many questions, if asked inartfully it could come across poorly, but I think if asked correctly it would be fine.

Edit: added a word

[Anonymous User]

Hmm I'm not sure about this one. I can see why the CW is not to mention it but I think framing it as "are you seeing any difference in what areas have more demand" could work. If you're open to rx if that becomes more needed that would give you extra points in my firm.

[choochoo]

As a law student, I would not ask during an interview. However, if you get multiple offers and are trying to decide which one to accept, then at that point you could try to get more information from an associate at the firm or even from creating a post about those specific firms on here.

[Buglaw]

You are going to get no helpful information by asking this. Everyone is going to tell you their outlook is great, they have super great x practice that is recession resistant, they have great clients, their partners really care about the associates, etc. No one is going to say, we plan to fire you if things sour.

I think it's also an impossible question to answer as no one can predict the future, what a recession looks like, what will happen to their clients, their partners and how they will react. Ask if you want, but I doubt you will get anything useful or actionable out of it.

[_PopTorts_]

I agree with the above and should have added that you are unlikely to get any useful information out of it, but that is kind of the nature of OCI interview questions. The question could reflect well on you, but the answer is unlikely to be all that helpful.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Do not ask this. Not only will they not answer the question honestly, you’ll have a high chance of pissing them off, making them defensive/anxious/etc. Your career services office gave you bad advice

[Anonymous User]

I think some of the posts above are being risk averse for no good reason. I'm in the process of interviewing 2Ls for their callbacks right now and I can say people don't really care if you ask that question or not (assuming you're a normal person who can carry a 20min conversation, regardless of topics). If you can't raise this question without being rude, that's a different problem (i.e. asking "hey you guys axed xxx number of people in the last recession, what do you think of that" vs. "how much do you know the firm's financials and how it is positioned for the next coming recession").

Also, I disagree with the other stuff that the above posts said too. If you raise this question during interviews, the interviewers may not give you the honest straightforward answer you want, but the way they answer it will still give you a lot of information. You don't want to go work at a place where the firm's financials are in a complete blackbox, the associates don't know how well their employer is doing at least from a high level, or you can just tell that the associates feel like they have very little job security themselves when answering this question, etc.

[Anonymous User]

TL;DR: a post-offer Q if anything, but most will either lie or have nothing (helpful) to say.

That said, I do think there is a variant of this question which would be insightful. If the changing economic climate is causing interesting legal issues in a particular attorney's area of focus AND you think you can speak intelligently about it, that's totally fair game to ask. I just don't know what field that would be or what questions a law student could come up with that would go over well.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

I think the posts above are being risk averse for no good reason. I'm in the process of interviewing 2Ls for their callbacks right now and I can say people don't really care if you ask that question or not (assuming you're a normal person who can carry a 20min conversation, regardless of topics)

Just because nobody showed you their reaction doesn’t make it a good question. Keep your questions focused on them, their experience, what they look for in a potential colleague, etc.

Asking partners about this is especially dumb. Even suggesting concern about the economy is like arguing that they shouldn’t hire you.

[nixy]

I think the posts above are being risk averse for no good reason. I'm in the process of interviewing 2Ls for their callbacks right now and I can say people don't really care if you ask that question or not (assuming you're a normal person who can carry a 20min conversation, regardless of topics)

Have you heard 2Ls ask this question and have you talked to other people who hire in your firm about it?

I think it’s perfectly fair to ask about where the interviewers see the firm heading in the next 5-10 years, that kind of thing. You could probably also get away with asking about the impact of a recession in kind of general terms, if the conversation naturally goes in that direction. I think asking how the firm plans to handle a downturn, coming from a place of worrying about what will happen to associates (i.e. will they lay off associates in a recession), is a very bad idea.

(If you’re coming in from a position of strength where you have other offers already at places you’d be happy to work, of course, ask what you like. But if you’re not in that position, I think OCI is exactly when you want to be risk averse.)

That said, I think if you get an offer it’s fair to ask how the firm handled the last recession. Just not before an offer.

Also not sure you’ll get very much helpful information, but you can try.

[Anonymous User]

I think some of the posts above are being risk averse for no good reason.

The above is a huge overreach for a 2L. OCI is quite literally the time to be risk averse. All it takes is offending one person and you lose your offer. Doesn't matter whether that person was reasonable, normal, or whatever. Your offer is gone. Can you ask that question and get a job? Sure. Is it a good idea? No.

[CanadianWolf]

My thought is that it depends upon how one phrases the question. If the question makes reference to particular practice areas rather than overall firm prospects, then it might be a reasonable area to address during an interview. One could couch the question in positives such as does the firm predict more growth in litigation or in corporate over the next few years.

[Anonymous User]

The way I see OCI is the following. Step 1 is the screener/callback this is where firms decide what they want. Step 2 is where you gather all your choices and then decide what you want. During Step 2 many firms have a program where you come and visit and talk to associates/partners there except this time you get to do it having already had an offer. Said offer won't be revoked unless you get there and start behaving similarly to what would cause a summer associate to get no offered.

The question about a recession is a decent one and something that is useful to know. But why ask it during Step 1 when you can ask it during Step 2. Step 1 is for them to cut you not for you to cut them. Get the offer in hand then ask them during Step 2.

[temp69420]

It seems extremely unlikely to me that you'd get any useful information from this question, making the risk/reward trade-off not so great.

That said, you could maybe ask a different version, like whether the current business environment is affecting clients, if it changes how the firm approaches and treats them, how the lawyers take their clients business situation into account, etc. That might then reveal how the firm is thinking about a recession, whether it's preparing, etc., but you come off as though you're just trying to learn about how to give clients better service.

[Anonymous User]

My thought is that it depends upon how one phrases the question. If the question makes reference to particular practice areas rather than overall firm prospects, then it might be a reasonable area to address during an interview. One could couch the question in positives such as does the firm predict more growth in litigation or in corporate over the next few years.

Yeah this is what makes sense to me too. "What practice areas at the firm typically see an uptick in business during a recession? Which ones are less active?" Not "on a scale of 1-10 how ready is the firm to handle a recession and will I get laid off???" which is how I think some interviewers might interpret a less carefully phrased question.

Save the "do you make associates pitch in on bankruptcy work during a recession?" questions for after you have an offer.

[Anonymous User]

I think some of the posts above are being risk averse for no good reason. I'm in the process of interviewing 2Ls for their callbacks right now and I can say people don't really care if you ask that question or not (assuming you're a normal person who can carry a 20min conversation, regardless of topics). If you can't raise this question without being rude, that's a different problem (i.e. asking "hey you guys axed xxx number of people in the last recession, what do you think of that" vs. "how much do you know the firm's financials and how it is positioned for the next coming recession").

Also, I disagree with the other stuff that the above posts said too. If you raise this question during interviews, the interviewers may not give you the honest straightforward answer you want, but the way they answer it will still give you a lot of information. You don't want to go work at a place where the firm's financials are in a complete blackbox, the associates don't know how well their employer is doing at least from a high level, or you can just tell that the associates feel like they have very little job security themselves when answering this question, etc.

It's not about being rude or not, it's the fact that as an interviewee, you want to reduce as much negativity as possible. You can ask about the outlook for Rx without even mentioning the word recession. So why raise it? Psychologically, interviewers might associate their mood regarding a negative topic to the conversation/interviewee, especially when it's a short 20 minute interaction and the interviewer is forced to come up with something to summarize their thoughts about the interview.

[Anonymous User]

Cannot emphasize enough that your role as interviewee is to make things as easy as possible for your interviewer. You want them to come away with a positive interaction.

[BigLawPartner]

If you want to ask this, ask it when you have an offer in hand. Do not ask this during an interview. If you make the interviewer have to answer a potentially difficult question, your chances of an offer go down significantly.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah I see zero upside in this. You will almost certainly not get helpful information and even if you don't piss everyone off, the risk of pissing one person off is real. As others have said, if you are considering multiple offers, it is maybe a question to ask at a second look so that you can compare answers, but before an offer is extended is not the time.

[nealric]

If you want to ask this, ask it when you have an offer in hand. Do not ask this during an interview. If you make the interviewer have to answer a potentially difficult question, your chances of an offer go down significantly.

Exactly. Your job isn’t to ask the tough questions, your job is to make them want to work with you. You aren’t an investigative reporter here. Keep it positive.

After you have an offer you can ask the tough questions. But a generalized question about a recession is not really one worth asking. You won’t get any useful information.

I wouldn’t put too much stock in the advice of career services. You’ll get so much bad advice from them at most places.

[Anonymous User]

Lightly asked about potential downturn in two screeners and got callbacks. Probably helped that I was interviewing with Rx Partners, turned into nice conversations on counter-cyclical work and how practice changes depending on economic health.

[Anonymous User]

Can’t imagine you’d get any better information than the bad information we get

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

Lightly asked about potential downturn in two screeners and got callbacks. Probably helped that I was interviewing with Rx Partners, turned into nice conversations on counter-cyclical work and how practice changes depending on economic health.

So, from their perspective, you lightly asked about a potential upturn. So the advice about not asking about downturns stands.