Top Law Schools

ToTransferOrNot wrote:You have a shot, but the lack of law review isn't your only problem: your class rank is also going to be a detriment. District courts in particular have slanted toward alumni candidates for several years, and 15-20% without law review is going to be rough. Get your grades up and apply, though.

imchuckbass58 wrote:In fact, given the number of people who clerk and the number of LR kids who do not, the majority of people who clerk are not on law review.

ToTransferOrNot wrote:You have a shot, but the lack of law review isn't your only problem: your class rank is also going to be a detriment. District courts in particular have slanted toward alumni candidates for several years, and 15-20% without law review is going to be rough. Get your grades up and apply, though.

imchuckbass58 wrote:You have a shot. This is a big exception, but just as an example, the Ginsburg clerk from Columbia a couple of years ago was not on law review. Every year many people who are not on law review nevertheless get clerkships (and good ones, too). In fact, given the number of people who clerk and the number of LR kids who do not, the majority of people who clerk are not on law review.

And yes, as a general rule applying as an alum increases your chances.

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:So I didn't make law review, but I'm interested in clerking someday (probably after working at a firm for 2 years). I'm somewhere between top 15-20% at Columbia, hope to only improve grades with 2L and 3L years.

First, congrats on doing really well 1L year. Second, most students' grades improve 2L and 3L year, so just bear in mind that your GPA will probably need to improve slightly to maintain the same class standing. Third, the stats necessary to land a district court clerkship one or two years out of law school are generally lower than what one would need straight out -- particularly if the intervening experience is at a well-respected firm/gov agency.

Do I have any shot at a district clerkship? Specifically, one in the NYC commuting area (CT, NJ, NY). Would 2 years working at a good firm help my odds? Thanks!!

Yes, you have "any shot." But don't set up a straw man like so many others do on TLS. There is a continuum of chances, and most people fall above zero on that continuum. In other words, being above zero is not terribly meaningful. You really should be asking "do I have a reasonable shot" at particular clerkships, as applying when you have a 0.05% chance is not generally worth it.

I am by no means an expert on district court clerkships, but based on everything I have seen and read, someone at CLS with strong recs, secondary journal, top ~15% standing (maybe one year of Stone and one year of Kent?), and a decent writing sample definitely would have a reasonable shot at the clerkships you mention. You might still be a slight underdog for lots of the NYC area commuter clerkships (e.g., SDNY, EDNY), but I imagine some in D. Conn. and D.N.J. might present somewhat better odds. With 2 years' NYC biglaw experience, I would think you would become a strong favorite to get one of those. The thing is, it is going to be hard to forecast right now whether you would actually want to leave the firm job after 2 years...

G. T. L. Rev. wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Does your involvement in a secondary journal matter at all (editor vs exec editor or something like that)?? Also, do you know if there are things you can do while at a firm to maximize your chances? Say, pro bono work that involves court time or something?

Fair questions. My sense, and admittedly a pretty unfounded one, is that neither of those things will affect your chances much. That is, unless you are EIC on the secondary, your board position probably does not matter much; likewise, your actual work at the firm -- at least as a SA -- is not going to have a major impact.

Clerkship hiring turns primarily on grades, recs, school, and resume, with a few other things often serving as tiebreakers. Focusing on building up your faculty connections, and thus the quality of your recs, should be Job 1 during 2L year. Developing a solid writing sample, either via your comment or note, or in a paper class, is important too.

leobowski wrote:

imchuckbass58 wrote:You have a shot. This is a big exception, but just as an example, the Ginsburg clerk from Columbia a couple of years ago was not on law review. Every year many people who are not on law review nevertheless get clerkships (and good ones, too). In fact, given the number of people who clerk and the number of LR kids who do not, the majority of people who clerk are not on law review.

And yes, as a general rule applying as an alum increases your chances.

Source?

imchuckbass58 wrote:

leobowski wrote:

imchuckbass58 wrote:You have a shot. This is a big exception, but just as an example, the Ginsburg clerk from Columbia a couple of years ago was not on law review. Every year many people who are not on law review nevertheless get clerkships (and good ones, too). In fact, given the number of people who clerk and the number of LR kids who do not, the majority of people who clerk are not on law review.

And yes, as a general rule applying as an alum increases your chances.

Source?

No clear source, but:

Somewhere between 10% and 15% of the graduating class clerks immediately after law school (this - http://www.top-law-schools.com/columbia-law-school.html - says "more than 10%," but the figures I have seen are between 10 and 15%).

At the clerkship sessions and in the packets, they showed us where CLS alums tend to clerk, and virtually nobody does a non-article III clerkship. Two years ago it was literally zero people, some years there are 1 or 2. A majority of Columbia clerks go to the 2nd circuit, EDNY and SDNY.

Fewer than 10% of the class is on law review (45 kids per year, out of a class including transfers of 450-470). Of the people I know on law review, about half are either not planning on clerking, or planning to apply a year out.

So roughly figuring, LR people who are clerking are roughly 5% of the class, out of 10% to 15% who clerk.

Renzo wrote:
With this logic, it's a wonder you didn't get into Yale.

AppsAbound wrote:What is your GPA? Because if you really are bottom 10% I'm not sure that a perfect GPA would get you to 3.7?

Anonymous User wrote:

AppsAbound wrote:What is your GPA? Because if you really are bottom 10% I'm not sure that a perfect GPA would get you to 3.7?

I meant at the bottom of the TOP 10%.

GPA = 3.63 (right at the cut-off I believe)

sorry about being unclear

I'm assuming if I can pull off a 3.8 next year, I can get up to 3.7ish (which I believe is top 5% or so).