NY Firms No-Offering Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have independently received corroboration of these cold offers

My source on the inside, who had been refusing to reveal his/her source, just revealed that their source was actually this thread. So now I have no clue what’s going on.

Ah yes, the circle of citation.

[Anonymous User]

Someone at the V10 I'm summering at got no offered. They apparently never showed up to the office. To which I'm sympathetic but come on.

[Anonymous User]

So to sum up, OP starts a thread about NY firms no offering, explicitly saying that OP heard this about "a few big NY firms." When pressed, OP backtracks and only mentions KE, and then reveals that this is just a rumor from one summer there who has no reason to lie.

I get that rumors happen. In fact, I want people to post rumors as soon as they hear them so the TLS masses can confirm or deny. We see this all the time in the bonus/raise threads ("E.g., I heard from a friend that X firm matched, can anybody confirm?"). I posted some of these myself.

But saying something like "a summer at KE NYC just told me KE is no offering 20 people, can anybody confirm?" is totally different from starting a thread that NY firms (plural, mind you) are no offering based purely on a single, uncorroborated, second-hand source from KE.

[Anonymous User]

Someone at the V10 I'm summering at got no offered. They apparently never showed up to the office. To which I'm sympathetic but come on.

Never showed up as in worked remotely because of pandemic concerns? Or simply didn't work.

[Anonymous User]

As just one data point, my V50 has made offers to the entire summer class this year (they recently publicly announced it).

[Anonymous User]

As just one data point, my V50 has made offers to the entire summer class this year (they recently publicly announced it).

Most firms 100% offer nowadays specifically because they want to make announcements like that. Doesn't necessarily account for cold offers

[Anonymous User]

Ok, I’m an associate at K&E Houston. Not NY, to be fair, but I can tell you the status of our program here and you can infer what you like about the NY office and the firm as a whole.

We have 50 summers. They have spent this entire summer partying, relaxing, adventuring and hardly doing any work. As far as I know, all 50 are getting offers, and we are now being asked to take them to extraordinarily expensive dinners at the best restaurants so that we can sell them on actually accepting those offers. Also, I don’t believe those offers have even been handed out yet (I think tomorrow is the day).

I strongly doubt that the NY rumor is true, because if there is some sort of secret plan to cold offer large numbers of people and reduce headcount, there’s sure as hell no evidence of it over in TX. Of course people can get cold offered for particularly bad behavior, but 20? The underlying incident would have been a TLS news story in and of itself (like that Baker Botts summer who got fired for sexual harassment 3 years ago).

Oh, and if we haven’t given our summers their offers yet, I have doubts that NY people have gotten them yet either. At least not with enough lead time to discuss it, figure out that there were 20 cold offers, and then tell their friend outside the firm, who then posts it here. Sounds totally made up to me.

Also for what it’s worth, I haven’t heard a hint of anything like this from my friends at the NY office.

[Anonymous User]

years ago it would have been unthinkable to confess to someone you got no offered. the notion that people are casually sharing that news in a group chat seems crazy to me, does not align with how this stuff goes.

Two years ago, we had one summer get no offered and he shared in our group chat that he did not receive an offer and that's why our offers were delayed

[Crazystallion]

also Summers
Don't discuss Dobbs

[Anonymous User]

also Summers
Don't discuss Dobbs

Hard when you're in a lit group focused on healthcare clients. I had three projects focused entirely on what services clients in our (trigger law) state would be able to provide post Dobbs.

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

also Summers
Don't discuss Dobbs

Totally fine, as long as you have the firm-approved viewpoint of being vehemently opposed to it — and are actively brainstorming pro bono to advance your viewpoint.

[Buglaw]

also Summers
Don't discuss Dobbs

Totally fine, as long as you have the firm-approved viewpoint of being vehemently opposed to it — and are actively brainstorming pro bono to advance your viewpoint.

Also totally fine if your gossiping about which people might not be vehemently opposed to it.

[Anonymous User]

also Summers
Don't discuss Dobbs

Totally fine, as long as you have the firm-approved viewpoint of being vehemently opposed to it — and are actively brainstorming pro bono to advance your viewpoint.

Also totally fine if your gossiping about which people might not be vehemently opposed to it.

A HYS summer at a V20 firm (non-NY office) got fired a few weeks ago. Apparently it was sexual-harassment related.

[nealric]

I hear talking politics around here can get you "no-offered" from TLS. Please don't get no-offered.

[Anonymous User]

Heard from 2 different people at K&E that at least 3-4 summers were no/cold offered.

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

Both definitely deserved it, wild Kirkland managed to have all the stories in one summer tho.

Dk bout the rest.

[Anonymous User]

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

I always wonder how people like this managed to make it through college and a (presumably) good law school without realizing how bad this activity is

[Anonymous User]

I don't think being pro life is a reason to get no offered, but being a dick is. Also, racism bad.

[Anonymous User]

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

There is no way. I refuse to believe this.

[Anonymous User]

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

I always wonder how people like this managed to make it through college and a (presumably) good law school without realizing how bad this activity is

Kids who never were in a normal work environment sometimes lack the awareness of what's not OK at work. Also the 100% offer rate + common online refrain that you need to sexually harass someone to lose your offer has I think shifted the way people act. Maybe this will make me sound like a boomer but I've seen a lot of summers behave inappropriately for a work environment. I guess they'll eventually grow up and once the workload hits they won't have time to act up. But maybe scaring summers isn't so bad.

[Anonymous User]

Accidental anon woops

[Anonymous User]

Heard from 2 different people at K&E that at least 3-4 summers were no/cold offered.

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

Both definitely deserved it, wild Kirkland managed to have all the stories in one summer tho.

Dk bout the rest.

Wow, if it's actually true that it happened and they were no-offered as a result, it makes working at Kirkland way more appealing, actually.

[OPM]

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

I always wonder how people like this managed to make it through college and a (presumably) good law school without realizing how bad this activity is

Kids who never were in a normal work environment sometimes lack the awareness of what's not OK at work. Also the 100% offer rate + common online refrain that you need to sexually harass someone to lose your offer has I think shifted the way people act. Maybe this will make me sound like a boomer but I've seen a lot of summers behave inappropriately for a work environment. I guess they'll eventually grow up and once the workload hits they won't have time to act up. But maybe scaring summers isn't so bad.

Not for nothing, but the pandemic and I think particularly zoom law school was devastating to people's ability to socialize and act normally around other people. A lot of people--and perhaps especially law students--spent a really long time alone and on the internet, and that has been difficult to recover from for many people. I see it with people I know, and at work. I have a sibling in law school, and people sound pretty broken still. It's certainly no excuse for this obviously obtuse and flagrantly inappropriate behavior, but it might explain something with some of these rumors about a greater than ususal number of summers behaving poorly this summer.

[Anonymous User]

There’s a great blog called Ask a Manager that offers workplace advice (not law specific, but leaning towards office jobs) and one of her consistent themes is being compassionate to screw ups by people new to the world of work because some people genuinely have no idea how to work in an office because it’s never been part of their life previously and they just need the opportunity to learn.

Still wild to me that anyone would think the above is at all appropriate, but I suppose it’s possible (that they were raised to believe it is, I mean, not that it actually IS appropriate).

[Res Ipsa Loquitter]

One of them went around saying congratulations to female SA's post Dobbs and the other asked a black share partner if he was a diversity hire.

I always wonder how people like this managed to make it through college and a (presumably) good law school without realizing how bad this activity is

Kids who never were in a normal work environment sometimes lack the awareness of what's not OK at work. Also the 100% offer rate + common online refrain that you need to sexually harass someone to lose your offer has I think shifted the way people act. Maybe this will make me sound like a boomer but I've seen a lot of summers behave inappropriately for a work environment. I guess they'll eventually grow up and once the workload hits they won't have time to act up. But maybe scaring summers isn't so bad.

Not for nothing, but the pandemic and I think particularly zoom law school was devastating to people's ability to socialize and act normally around other people. A lot of people--and perhaps especially law students--spent a really long time alone and on the internet, and that has been difficult to recover from for many people. I see it with people I know, and at work. I have a sibling in law school, and people sound pretty broken still. It's certainly no excuse for this obviously obtuse and flagrantly inappropriate behavior, but it might explain something with some of these rumors about a greater than ususal number of summers behaving poorly this summer.

As an old man associate, the kids today think they are very socially savvy and adept, but are not even close.

What they typically do is conform their behavior as close to the larger group as they can, hoping for safety in numbers since they have no clue how make good decisions on their own.

[Crazystallion]

I will never, ever, be shocked by what an associate says in BigLaw. A guy from t14 with 177 lsat. Totally clueless about what can be said in a social setting. And that's why he's not a partner today. But he sure got the 177.