Law Clerk Quit / Terminated Forum

[Anonymous User]

I had a great two weeks of clerking after working at a top 5 Vault firm and graduating from a T14 law school. Then a pattern of discriminatory, verbal abuse started with the judge. I immediately reported it to HR. Then the abuse became verbal AND physical. I continued to report it to HR on a daily basis. It got so bad that HR referred the matter to the chief judge. After five weeks, the judge caught wind of my complaints and threatened to terminate me if I did not withdraw my complaints. I quit because I figured she would terminate me anyways once I lost my leverage. Did I make the right move here? Please help.

On a side note, are there cameras in chambers? I want to pull video of the judge hitting my head with Black's Law Dictionary on multiple occasions.

[Waterfront_79]

I smell flame -- or the tears of a Sloviter clerk.

No, IM(Limited)E, there aren't cameras in any chambers.

[jchiles]

You should probably talk to a real lawyer.

[emkay625]

What do you mean by verbal abuse? Something along the lines of racial slurs or sexual harassment, or something along the lines of "you're an idiot, why did you write X order this way."

[dcpolitico]

ignore

[mjb447]

There are generally no cameras in chambers. I'm not sure what else you're hoping to get from this thread - whether or not you made the right decision, it seems like you've made it and you're moving on.

[dcpolitico]

ignore

[Anonymous User]

Can I still get another clerkship, or am I doomed?

[Anonymous User]

What do you mean by verbal abuse? Something along the lines of racial slurs or sexual harassment, or something along the lines of "you're an idiot, why did you write X order this way."

She agreed with all my orders. Examples of verbal abuse: "Only gay men take so long to order their food."

[Anonymous User]

This is not a flame. I am talking to a real lawyer. There were no complaints related to my performance or competence. Just stupid things, like she couldn't find me when she needed to talk or she alleged I was chastising other clerks, which was false.

[Waterfront_79]

This is not a flame. I am talking to a real lawyer. There were no complaints related to my performance or competence. Just stupid things, like she couldn't find me when she needed to talk or she alleged I was chastising other clerks, which was false.

Sorry for doubting you.

[Anonymous User]

I just want to know if my clerkship future is over.

[grades??]

Im just a law student so I am 100% speculating but I would imagine if you applied for more clerkships those judges will likely contact this judge? I interned for a D.Ct judge this summer and every person he would think about interviewing he would always call the former judge (if they are coming from another clerkship). Also, he was frequently called about former clerks applying for another clerkship.

I would imagine that would be at least standard procedure.

[Waterfront_79]

Im just a law student so I am 100% speculating but I would imagine if you applied for more clerkships those judges will likely contact this judge? I interned for a D.Ct judge this summer and every person he would think about interviewing he would always call the former judge (if they are coming from another clerkship). Also, he was frequently called about former clerks applying for another clerkship.

I would imagine that would be at least standard procedure.

OP may leave it off his/her resume.

[rpupkin]

On a side note, are there cameras in chambers? I want to pull video of the judge hitting my head with Black's Law Dictionary on multiple occasions.

You pushed it much too far with this line.

[Anonymous User]

Given what you've said, I'm sorry this happened to you. What about the other clerks? Does she hit them too or just you? Also did she know you were gay before you started working (since you said she comments on that)?

[mjb447]

Assuming not flame:

You might leave it off your resume to get your foot in the door, particularly if your stay there was short. (Not sure what the rules about this are for lawyers/clerkship resumes, but in the real world it's generally okay to choose to omit a bad employer from your resume.) If you can go back to your firm or find another job quickly, you won't have a long employment gap.

That said, I imagine that your prior work will be discovered at some point during the process or that it will become increasingly difficult not to affirmatively lie in order to avoid revealing this incident. If you get another interview you'll need to have a ready explanation for it (and be prepared for an awkward conversation). Given how many very qualified candidates there are for every clerkship position, I'm a little pessimistic on your prospects.

[ggocat]

Did I make the right move here?

No. You should have consulted a lawyer before reporting and before quitting.

[Big Dog]

You might leave it off your resume to get your foot in the door,

While resumes can be good marketing tools, the OP will eventually have to complete the federal application form, which has the following on it:

I certify that, to the best of my knowledge and belief, all of the information on and attached to this application is true, correct, complete and made in good faith.

[Anonymous User]

Did I make the right move here?

No. You should have consulted a lawyer before reporting and before quitting.

Not enough time. Plus I am a lawyer. Withdraw complaints or be fired. Had to decide immediately. Who's to say she wouldn't fire me after I withdrew them. Anyways, this is basic EEOC retaliation 101 - for those non-lawyers out there.

[Anonymous User]

Assuming not flame:

You might leave it off your resume to get your foot in the door, particularly if your stay there was short. (Not sure what the rules about this are for lawyers/clerkship resumes, but in the real world it's generally okay to choose to omit a bad employer from your resume.) If you can go back to your firm or find another job quickly, you won't have a long employment gap.

That said, I imagine that your prior work will be discovered at some point during the process or that it will become increasingly difficult not to affirmatively lie in order to avoid revealing this incident. If you get another interview you'll need to have a ready explanation for it (and be prepared for an awkward conversation). Given how many very qualified candidates there are for every clerkship position, I'm a little pessimistic on your prospects.

Maybe I'm idealistic, but if you mention you quit your job because your former boss assaulted you and you have EEOC documention of the incident prior to you quitting, you have a good explanation. Yes, other former clerks were abused but did not report it.

[ggocat]

Did I make the right move here?

No. You should have consulted a lawyer before reporting and before quitting.

Not enough time. Plus I am a lawyer. Withdraw complaints or be fired. Had to decide immediately. Who's to say she wouldn't fire me after I withdrew them. Anyways, this is basic EEOC retaliation 101 - for those non-lawyers out there.

Did you ask the question here so you could get a tummy rub and pat on the head? What answer are you looking for?

As a lawyer, you should have had the foresight to seek out a specialist before complaining to HR on a daily basis for five weeks.

And if you're actually considering a claim (for at least retaliation if that's even available), then it would have been better to have been fired compared to quitting.

"Did I make the right move here" depends on what you want out of this situation. Do you want to sue? Do you want to forget about it an move on? If you want to sue, then it would have been prudent to have had counsel's advice earlier in the process. You wouldn't now be asking questions like "are there cameras in chambers" on an Internet forum.

[Anonymous User]

You're absolutely right. My question was vague and ambiguous.

[mjb447]

Assuming not flame:

You might leave it off your resume to get your foot in the door, particularly if your stay there was short. (Not sure what the rules about this are for lawyers/clerkship resumes, but in the real world it's generally okay to choose to omit a bad employer from your resume.) If you can go back to your firm or find another job quickly, you won't have a long employment gap.

That said, I imagine that your prior work will be discovered at some point during the process or that it will become increasingly difficult not to affirmatively lie in order to avoid revealing this incident. If you get another interview you'll need to have a ready explanation for it (and be prepared for an awkward conversation). Given how many very qualified candidates there are for every clerkship position, I'm a little pessimistic on your prospects.

Maybe I'm idealistic, but if you mention you quit your job because your former boss assaulted you and you have EEOC documention of the incident prior to you quitting, you have a good explanation. Yes, other former clerks were abused but did not report it.

I hope you're right. It's just that I can also imagine a judge not wanting to deal with it at all and hiring someone else to avoid getting involved.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe I'm idealistic, but if you mention you quit your job because your former boss assaulted you and you have EEOC documention of the incident prior to you quitting, you have a good explanation. Yes, other former clerks were abused but did not report it.

I'm the anon who asked earlier.

Given other clerks were "abused", the fact that they didn't report it looks bad for you. Had they done so, future judges might look at your story as a "one of the many" and think nothing of it. However, if no one but you reported it, the fact that you did itself says a lot about your personality. Even if you have a EEOC documentation, a good number of judges will consider you "petty" or "cantankerous", or worse, the type to demand "fairness" as you define the term. None of these traits suggest to them that you're a clerk they want to deal with, especially with the number of clerkship applicants out there. Some may even blame you.

I would ask to speak with the judge if I were you, and ask to talk about the misunderstanding and thoroughly apologize. If you can't swallow that, you're better off quitting for "personal reasons" and waiting several years before applying again. There are plenty of editor-in-chiefs of law reviews and V100 associates applying for clerkships (which, let's face it, a V80 associate with a ready and eager attitude is still better than a V5 associate with a history of conflict.) If this gets out, you may have more problems than just not being able to find another clerkship.