2014 University of Virginia OGI Thread Forum

[North]

It's that time of year. All our grades should be up in a couple days. This thread usually starts this time in June. So here we go.

• Historical Thread Rules
• Only post in this thread if you are or were a UVA student.
• Keep advice and information specific to UVA.
• The information that Career Services asked us to keep confidential ought to be kept confidential.

• Previous UVA OGI Threads
• 2013 UVA OGI Thread
• 2012 UVA OGI Thread
• 2011 UVA OGI Thread

Let me know if there's something useful I can do with the OP.

[First Offense]

This strikes me as distressingly premature.

[Trout et al]

This strikes me as distressingly premature.

Nah, grades will be out this week and the conversation will begin to flow as organically as it did at your first section mixer

[North]

This strikes me as distressingly premature.

Nah, check the start dates of the old threads and the LE forum to see other school's OCI threads popping up. It's OGI season bro. I'm distressed too.

as organically as it did at your first section mixer

[Cavalier]

OGI is only two months away--it's not premature to start preparing now. Since you don't know where you stand and can't bid on firms yet, I'd recommend learning what you can about biglaw practice. If you think litigation associates do mostly appellate legal research and writing, and you have no idea what corporate involves beyond "deals," now's the time to fix that. Learn about the different practice areas, read threads here and elsewhere about what biglaw work involves, and if you can, talk to people who are currently associates or summers. You should go into the bidding and interview process with an understanding of what practice areas interest you, what those practice areas involve, and which firms (and office locations) are strong and weak in those practice areas.

There's good advice about a variety of topics (bidding, interviewing, mass mailing, attire, etc.) scattered throughout the previous OGI threads. They're worth a read.

[sundance95]

Might I suggest starting with the "day in a lawyer's life" thread?

[olive16]

current 3L here. feel free to PM me with any Qs

[LadyMary]

Thanks for this, North!

[5ky]

Biglaw sucks, etc

[sprezz]

current 3L here. feel free to PM me with any Qs

same, especially if the Qs are about nonNYC/DC markets (and double especially if you're flirting with several such markets).

[DMXdawg]

Some general advice:

1. Go to as many job fairs as you can, even if you think you will kill it at OGI. There are numerous benefits to this. First, you get interviewing experience at these fairs. When you are in the swing of things during interview season, then you will answer questions smoothly after you've worked out your kinks. You also get a feel for the type of questions you may get. Second, you get more shots at BigLaw jobs outside of OGI. This is imperative--you really only get one shot (2L fall) at getting a job, and you want as many chances as you can. For markets that you are not from (e.g., California, Texas, Delaware), going to a job fair at one of these locations is a great way to express your interest because you are showing them that you are willing to pay out-of-pocket to interview with them. I have friends who scored jobs in markets which required ties by doing this.

2. Practice, Practice, Practice. You want to practice as much as you can. You'd also want feedback from CSO and your friends. Interview questions are typically softball questions. So ideally you want to think of your answers of being graded on a curve vs. other people applying for these jobs. Because everyone knows what questions everyone gets, you want to answer at a very high, fluid level. Be conscious about each firm that you are interviewing with and how you can tailor your responses. With Weil, you may want to highlight your transactional experiences and/or clerkship with a BK court. With litigation powerhouses, you want to talk about your summer clerking for a federal judge. Even if you're not sure what practice group you want to be in, you want to have an intelligent answer ready.

3. Bid smart. Don't be arrogant. Don't aim for purely DC if you are merely at or below median. If your grades aren't spectacular, try to aim for markets where you may have a relative advantage (e.g., if you are from Seattle, aim for the PNW; or if you are from Ohio, target Jones Day or tucker ellis cleveland). Keep in mind that DC is very grade-conscious, and NYC is probably more grade conscious than you think it is (it's relatively tough to do well in NY with less than a 3.4 or so). There are small advantages you can derive from the bidding process. Some firms have more rooms or are more or less popular than other firms, so try and adjust accordingly. Try and work with CSO with your list. Aim for "matches," but you are welcome to throw a few reach firms here and there.

4. Mass mail biglaw firms that you are willing to work for, but you probably will not interview with. Again, you want to maximize the number of shots that you can take during this brief period. Yes--it's a pain, but an extra 3-4 callbacks could be the difference between having a job and a Kennedy fellowship. Sooner the better; ideally you want your mass mail done by August.

Best of luck in the process. Hustle more if you have below a 3.55 or so. For the most part, people with good grades will come out with jobs and it is tougher for individuals with median or below grades, but intelligent job search and interviewing skills goes a long way. I know people (non-minority) close to 3.0 who got V100 firms. I also know people with strong grades who messed up their bidding and interviewing and came out jobless.

[5ky]

Some general advice:

1. Go to as many job fairs as you can, even if you think you will kill it at OGI. There are numerous benefits to this. First, you get interviewing experience at these fairs. When you are in the swing of things during interview season, then you will answer questions smoothly after you've worked out your kinks. You also get a feel for the type of questions you may get. Second, you get more shots at BigLaw jobs outside of OGI. This is imperative--you really only get one shot (2L fall) at getting a job, and you want as many chances as you can. For markets that you are not from (e.g., California, Texas, Delaware), going to a job fair at one of these locations is a great way to express your interest because you are showing them that you are willing to pay out-of-pocket to interview with them. I have friends who scored jobs in markets which required ties by doing this.

2. Practice, Practice, Practice. You want to practice as much as you can. You'd also want feedback from CSO and your friends. Interview questions are typically softball questions. So ideally you want to think of your answers of being graded on a curve vs. other people applying for these jobs. Because everyone knows what questions everyone gets, you want to answer at a very high, fluid level. Be conscious about each firm that you are interviewing with and how you can tailor your responses. With Weil, you may want to highlight your transactional experiences and/or clerkship with a BK court. With litigation powerhouses, you want to talk about your summer clerking for a federal judge. Even if you're not sure what practice group you want to be in, you want to have an intelligent answer ready.

3. Bid smart. Don't be arrogant. Don't aim for purely DC if you are merely at or below median. If your grades aren't spectacular, try to aim for markets where you may have a relative advantage (e.g., if you are from Seattle, aim for the PNW; or if you are from Ohio, target Jones Day or Tucker Ellis Cleveland). Keep in mind that DC is very grade-conscious, and NYC is probably more grade conscious than you think it is (it's relatively tough to do well in NY with less than a 3.4 or so). There are small advantages you can derive from the bidding process. Some firms have more rooms or are more or less popular than other firms, so try and adjust accordingly. Try and work with CSO with your list. Aim for "matches," but you are welcome to throw a few reach firms here and there.

4. Mass mail biglaw firms that you are willing to work for, but you probably will not interview with. Again, you want to maximize the number of shots that you can take during this brief period. Yes--it's a pain, but an extra 3-4 callbacks could be the difference between having a job and a Kennedy fellowship. Sooner the better; ideally you want your mass mail done by August.

Best of luck in the process. Hustle more if you have below a 3.55 or so. For the most part, people with good grades will come out with jobs and it is tougher for individuals with median or below grades, but intelligent job search and interviewing skills goes a long way. I know people (non-minority) close to 3.0 who got V100 firms. I also know people with strong grades who messed up their bidding and interviewing and came out jobless.

^^all very good advice

[Anonymous User]

3. Bid smart. Don't be arrogant. Don't aim for purely DC if you are merely at or below median. If your grades aren't spectacular, try to aim for markets where you may have a relative advantage (e.g., if you are from Seattle, aim for the PNW; or if you are from Ohio, target Jones Day or Tucker Ellis Cleveland). Keep in mind that DC is very grade-conscious, and NYC is probably more grade conscious than you think it is (it's relatively tough to do well in NY with less than a 3.4 or so). There are small advantages you can derive from the bidding process. Some firms have more rooms or are more or less popular than other firms, so try and adjust accordingly. Try and work with CSO with your list. Aim for "matches," but you are welcome to throw a few reach firms here and there.

I agree with bid smart and don’t be arrogant. But I would add: bid smart and don’t buy the hype. I don’t have first-hand experience with hiring in DC, but the big firms in NY with big summer classes are not all as grade-conscious as they would like you to think. Just do the math. There are more BigLaw jobs available for UVA students than there are UVA students with GPAs above 3.5. There are definitely more BigLaw jobs available for UVA students than there are UVA students with GPAs above 3.5 who are, to put it kindly, client ready.

There's a lot of confirmation bias at play when it comes the perceived role of grades in firm hiring. I am a 3L and I have friends at okay firms with bad grades, friends at great firms with okay grades, and a fair number of friends with great grades but no job. People make assumptions about other people's grades based on their jobs. It's awkward as hell to correct these assumptions, therefore they frequently go uncorrected. When some rando starts in with, "Oh, your firm job is so impressive, your grades must be so high," do you think many people are going to respond with, "No, my grades suck, I am not qualified for my job, the prestige of my firm is a lie?"

I'm not saying that grades don't matter. But if you have reason to believe that you are strong candidate as an overall package, then don't be afraid to reach a little. If you're below 3.5, you probably have a better shot at a V20 with a large summer class than a "less grade selective" firm with a summer class of four that most of your classmates are also bidding on. Firms with small summer classes are necessarily very selective, even if they're not "selective" in terms of grades.

Absolutely hustle your ass off. But don't be excessively risk averse. You miss all the shots you don't take.

[Yardbird]

Any advice from 3Ls/Alums for bidding in a (minority) job fair without all grades in?

[turkeysub]

Any advice from 3Ls/Alums for bidding in a (minority) job fair without all grades in?

Definitely don't miss a bidding deadline just because you don't have all your grades. Just upload the transcript you have and then update it as soon as you can. Firms do this every year and they're aware law schools/professors are lazy about getting grades back. Hopefully you'll have all your grades in the next day or two anyway.

[Yardbird]

Any advice from 3Ls/Alums for bidding in a (minority) job fair without all grades in?

Definitely don't miss a bidding deadline just because you don't have all your grades. Just upload the transcript you have and then update it as soon as you can. Firms do this every year and they're aware law schools/professors are lazy about getting grades back. Hopefully you'll have all your grades in the next day or two anyway.

Right, but I can rank my bids based on my current GPA and what I know about firms or based on where my GPA likely will be. Just trying to figure out if I should play it safe or take a risk.

[bluecrab5448]

The callback thread that one person inevitably starts during the first week of OGI will drive you nuts. Muster all your willpower and do not look in there unless you want to spend the rest of the day in a funk.

Feel free to PM with any questions for NY bidding.

[sundance95]

Folks with Qs re SF firms/bidding should feel free to PM.

[DMXdawg]

Eff bar studying. Anyway, rising 2Ls--feel free to post any questions incidental or on point to OGIs, and we'll do our best!

[North]

Well there we go. Now it's on for real.

[Br3v]

Well there we go. Now it's on for real.

Came to say this. Good luck everyone!

[Anonymous User]

Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?

[Br3v]

At what GPA would you say it is not crazy to bid predominately (as in 50-75%) DC?

[Anonymous User]

Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?

Two years ago, a 3.74 didn't get me a pre-select at W&C, but did at C&B. If you need more firms, let me know.

[5ky]

Any advice on the GPA for the elite DC firms? Law review enough or do you need to get your name on a plaque somewhere in the school?

Obviously, grading on to law review at UVA will give you a chance just about anywhere. no guarantees