NY GOES TO 180k! IT HAPPENED!!!! (CovingTTTon does a 180! Holder wept.) Forum

[Anonymous User]

LOT of DC associates with top grades from top schools watching closely.

On the one hand, DC-centric biglaw and its associates practice areas are generally not as heavily leveraged as their NYC counterparts. On the other hand, these DC firms don't have such a wide profit margin to absorb a sudden rise in expense.

Even if Covington/A&P/WH/etc. match quickly in their DC offices (which they will be heavily pressured to do by firms like Sidley etc.), many DC biglaw (defined as $160k starting salary as of this post) may not, at least at first. The elite DC firms don't compete for the same pool of associates as the Crowells/AF/etc, so the latter may prefer to ride this out at least one oci cycle while they figure out how to adapt to this change. The DC elites are generally competing for associates from the top schools nationwide whereas the rest of DC biglaw tends to hire more regionally.

I think Wiley Rein is probably the best test case. If Wiley goes to 180, that will put a lot of pressure on DC biglaw.

For patent associates out there, it will be very interesting to see how long it takes Fish/Finnegan to match.

Does Wiley Rein even pay 160k? I thought they were stuck on that 120k a year until you bill your 2000th hour plan. No way are they jumping to 180k.

Wiley Rein does pay $160k. They eliminated the 2 track system this year, placing all first year associates (including 2015 associates) on $160k with an expectation of 1950 hrs.

The issue with Wiley is that they're fiscally (and politically) conservative. They will probably be one of the last to move in DC because they'll wait and see what other DC firms do, rather than start throwing out money.

[smaug]

Any opinion on lower ranked firms matching? I'm talking Am Law 100-200 that currently pay 160K in major markets. I'm not sure how long it took them to match in 2007.

This is relevant to my interests. As someone deciding whether to go to one of PW/QE/K&E/GDC or PBWT after my clerkship, I'd be interested in people's thoughts on whether PBWT might also move?

Outside of the matching issue, why would you go to PBWT over the others?

Why the fuck wouldn't you?

[Desert Fox]

Seeing as they were fine being below market, I bet they don't match even if most of DC does.

[PvblivsScipio]

it's going to be hilarious when this just causes people to pay off their debts sooner and leave biglaw even sooner and firms have to reraise.

My thoughts when learning my firm matched, "Sweet, this moves up the timetable to pay off my student loans and get out!"

I wouldn't underestimate the golden shackles, though. Especially in markets with expensive real estate like NYC, SF, and LA.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

Yeah it sucks but firms are selling prestige.

Strikes me as antithetical that a company would want to "buy" the prestige when they could save $50/hour on their bills if the firm were based in Bergen. They already put all the back office shit in Nowheresville, Kentucky. But I guess a lot of things about Biglaw don't really comport with Econ 101.

Only firm I can think of that's like that is Boies in Armonk; is that a special case?

[Anonymous User]

Seeing as they were fine being below market, I bet they don't match even if most of DC does.

I'd be happy if Wiley matched market bonuses...

[Anonymous User]

Any opinion on lower ranked firms matching? I'm talking Am Law 100-200 that currently pay 160K in major markets. I'm not sure how long it took them to match in 2007.

This is relevant to my interests. As someone deciding whether to go to one of PW/QE/K&E/GDC or PBWT after my clerkship, I'd be interested in people's thoughts on whether PBWT might also move?

Outside of the matching issue, why would you go to PBWT over the others?

OP here. Already did the mega-firm thing before I started clerking and want to go somewhere smaller that will provide me with better experience as a litigator. All things considered, PBWT still has a fantastic reputation and appears to fit the bill. Not saying there aren't great opportunities at the other firms listed and the choice has been agonizing.

[NakedPowerOrgan]

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

Yeah it sucks but firms are selling prestige.

Strikes me as antithetical that a company would want to "buy" the prestige when they could save $50/hour on their bills if the firm were based in Bergen. They already put all the back office shit in Nowheresville, Kentucky. But I guess a lot of things about Biglaw don't really comport with Econ 101.

Only firm I can think of that's like that is Boies in Armonk; is that a special case?

Armonk is not exactly the best place to go to avoid a COL hit. It's arguably not even a prestige hit. It's similar to a hedge fund being based out of Greenwich or Stamford.

[androstan]

LOT of DC associates with top grades from top schools watching closely.

On the one hand, DC-centric biglaw and its associates practice areas are generally not as heavily leveraged as their NYC counterparts. On the other hand, these DC firms don't have such a wide profit margin to absorb a sudden rise in expense.

Even if Covington/A&P/WH/etc. match quickly in their DC offices (which they will be heavily pressured to do by firms like Sidley etc.), many DC biglaw (defined as $160k starting salary as of this post) may not, at least at first. The elite DC firms don't compete for the same pool of associates as the Crowells/AF/etc, so the latter may prefer to ride this out at least one oci cycle while they figure out how to adapt to this change. The DC elites are generally competing for associates from the top schools nationwide whereas the rest of DC biglaw tends to hire more regionally.

I think Wiley Rein is probably the best test case. If Wiley goes to 180, that will put a lot of pressure on DC biglaw.

For patent associates out there, it will be very interesting to see how long it takes Fish/Finnegan to match.

Going to NYC over DC for 25k a year is pretty stupid. After taxes and COL 180k NYC is probably about equal to 160k DC.

Does Wiley Rein even pay 160k? I thought they were stuck on that 120k a year until you bill your 2000th hour plan. No way are they jumping to 180k.

The reason Cov/A&P/WH will move to 160k is because Latham, Kirkland, Skadden, Clearly, etc. will almost certainly pay their DC associates the 180k scale. So they'll have to match or lose people to other DC firms.

I bet many 2L's going through OCI will pick NY for 25k/yr, either because of the signaling value of the higher salary, or because they' didn't bother to calculate the real difference.

I think Wiley does 140 until you hit 1950, then you're at 160. Wiley is considered by many (at least in DC) to be a very prestigious DC firm, and at least one reason for that is its telecom and gov't K's practices. Wiley wouldn't want to lose that reputation. Wiley also has a penchant for hiring federal clerks, so they will have to keep their salary competitive to continue doing that.

Wiley has a reasonably healthy PPP for a DC-centric (actually DC-only) firm, and it's not too leveraged. I think it's a perfect corner case of a firm pulled between keeping up with the Cravathians on the one hand and maintaining partner profitability on the other.

[Anonymous User]

LOT of DC associates with top grades from top schools watching closely.

On the one hand, DC-centric biglaw and its associates practice areas are generally not as heavily leveraged as their NYC counterparts. On the other hand, these DC firms don't have such a wide profit margin to absorb a sudden rise in expense.

Even if Covington/A&P/WH/etc. match quickly in their DC offices (which they will be heavily pressured to do by firms like Sidley etc.), many DC biglaw (defined as $160k starting salary as of this post) may not, at least at first. The elite DC firms don't compete for the same pool of associates as the Crowells/AF/etc, so the latter may prefer to ride this out at least one oci cycle while they figure out how to adapt to this change. The DC elites are generally competing for associates from the top schools nationwide whereas the rest of DC biglaw tends to hire more regionally.

I think Wiley Rein is probably the best test case. If Wiley goes to 180, that will put a lot of pressure on DC biglaw.

For patent associates out there, it will be very interesting to see how long it takes Fish/Finnegan to match.

Going to NYC over DC for 25k a year is pretty stupid. After taxes and COL 180k NYC is probably about equal to 160k DC.

Does Wiley Rein even pay 160k? I thought they were stuck on that 120k a year until you bill your 2000th hour plan. No way are they jumping to 180k.

The reason Cov/A&P/WH will move to 160k is because Latham, Kirkland, Skadden, Clearly, etc. will almost certainly pay their DC associates the 180k scale. So they'll have to match or lose people to other DC firms.

I bet many 2L's going through OCI will pick NY for 25k/yr, either because of the signaling value of the higher salary, or because they' didn't bother to calculate the real difference.

I think Wiley does 140 until you hit 1950, then you're at 160. Wiley is consider by many to be a very prestigious DC firm, and at least one reason for that is its telecom and gov't K's practices. Wiley wouldn't want to lose that reputation. Wiley also has a penchant for hiring federal clerks, and they will have to keep their salary competitive to continue doing that.

Wiley has a reasonably healthy PPP for a DC-centric (actually DC-only) firm, and it's not too leveraged. I think it's a perfect corner case of a firm pulled between keeping up with the Cravathians on the one hand and maintaining partner profitability on the other.

I said this above, but the two track system is gone now. Wiley is $160k for all incoming first years. You can opt to be put on a lower track, but that's career suicide.

[Anonymous User]

I suppose firms feel the need to be located in Manhattan proper because of prestige or maybe very close proximity to clients, but it has long made me doubly MAF that they don't move far out in Queens or whatever. Not only would their rent be a third of what it is now (more $$$ to go around) but associates could actually live somewhere affordable without being an hour away from the office.

Yeah it sucks but firms are selling prestige.

Strikes me as antithetical that a company would want to "buy" the prestige when they could save $50/hour on their bills if the firm were based in Bergen. They already put all the back office shit in Nowheresville, Kentucky. But I guess a lot of things about Biglaw don't really comport with Econ 101.

Only firm I can think of that's like that is Boies in Armonk; is that a special case?

I get your point. But as a dude that's at a v50 in a secondary city, I can tell you that sometimes potential clients care. I try to sell them on our reputation with local judges and experience with the local court systems. But sometimes clients think they're better served by the bigger name, bigger city, perceived subject matter experts, and they're willing to pay the premium. I think that's why firms won't leave manhattan. They're either catering to NYC-based clients or working on NYC-based matters, so they need to be in the area, or they're being hired because their status as a big NYC firm, and they might lose some status if they move their operation to New Jersey or a cheaper part of NYC.

[homestyle28]

b/c my firm does things differently I need some interpretation. What's a class of 2014 grad making at Cravath today? 170?

[rpupkin]

PW matches

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/ny-to-18 ... cravath/2/

Paul, Weiss had the chance to be a market leader, but choked when it mattered. It was even beat to the $180K line by a lowly SoCal boutique. Sad!

[JusticeJackson]

.

[El Pollito]

We're having an emergency associates committee meeting to figure out how to best approach this. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

[dailygrind]

We're having an emergency associates committee meeting to figure out how to best approach this. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

'Could we spin this as a PR move if we go to 185?'

[dailygrind]

Answer: 100 times yes.

[jbagelboy]

We're having an emergency associates committee meeting to figure out how to best approach this. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

'Could we spin this as a PR move if we go to 185?'

Yes plz

[El Pollito]

We're having an emergency associates committee meeting to figure out how to best approach this. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

'Could we spin this as a PR move if we go to 185?'

SV to 180 + telsa model 3

[Anonymous User]

Partner at lunch today discussed matching, but more intriguingly, suggested the raise might be retroactive to Jan 1 2016. Is there precedent for this?

[TLSModBot]

We're having an emergency associates committee meeting to figure out how to best approach this. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

'Could we spin this as a PR move if we go to 185?'

SV to 180 + telsa model 3

If literally anyone in your meeting is not gung-ho about 180 or higher, CRUCIFY THEM AS AN EXAMPLE TO THE OTHERS.

[Anonymous User]

Partner at lunch today discussed matching, but more intriguingly, suggested the raise might be retroactive to Jan 1 2016. Is there precedent for this?

Egregious flame

[mushybrain]

A few members of firm leadership are away from their computers and have been for a couple hours. Surely they're meeting to agree to bump to 180.

[lhanvt13]

We're having an emergency associates committee meeting to figure out how to best approach this. WHAT A TIME TO BE ALIVE.

'Could we spin this as a PR move if we go to 185?'

SV to 180 + telsa model 3

If literally anyone in your meeting is not gung-ho about 180 or higher higher than 180, CRUCIFY THEM AS AN EXAMPLE TO THE OTHERS.

[Anonymous User]

Is El Politico an SV associate?

WSGR associate here hoping desperately we match...