Wake Forest C/O 2018 Applicants (2014-2015 cycle) Forum

[WatfordForTheWin]

Jay Shively,

Serious questions... Are you a graduate of Wake Forest Law? Have you ever attended a class? If not, how can you possibly know whether or not the law education at Wake Forest is good or not. Wake Forest Law only placed 56% of their students into JD required positions. Only 13% got big law. Which means a large number of your graduates moved back in with their parents... I mean roomates.

Clever.

[withoutapaddle]

Chapel hill>Winston-Salem

[LawsRUs]

Sorry. feeling clueless. why the drop?
(i was admitted a couple of months ago)

eta: shld i even be paying attentn to the rankings idk

[withoutapaddle]

USNews changed their formula this year. Schools got penalized for hiring their own graduates.

[LurkerShirker]

Wake Forest's NC bar passage
Class of 2011 90.7%
Class of 2012 89.33%
Class of 2013 75.00%
Class of 2014 79.00%

The Dean of Admissions correctly notes that the Class of 2013 did poorly in bar passage and employment, resulting in the current rankings drop. The Class of 2014 does not look like it did much better in bar passage, and we shall find out in the next month or so if it did better in employment, which may tell us how it is likely to fare in next year' rankings.

[WakeLawAdmDean]

USNews changed their formula this year. Schools got penalized for hiring their own graduates.

Although I generally resist the urge to respond to anonymous negativity, this statement is factually incorrect.

[KStone1]

Application went complete 1/23 still no response. Accepted to UNC with over a 50% scholarship 18 days after application went complete. Wake is making this an easy choice.

[AT9]

USNews changed their formula this year. Schools got penalized for hiring their own graduates.

Even if they did, Wake doesn't hire many of their own graduates (like 1.3% according to LST).

Dean Shively, is there any indication the employment numbers will look any better this year?

[LawsRUs]

I thought bar passage rate was worth ~0.02 in usnwr rankings. im still having a hard time understanding the drop

[cricketlove00]

Also remember that USNWR look to 2013 data, not the most current data. And as I've said before Wake has always bounced up and down. Also, if you're that concerned about rankings, you should really reevaluate why you're going to law school. One drop is not going to account for your entire legal future.

[LawsRUs]

If the drop is not due to something substantive, it's all good Wake.

[AT9]

I thought bar passage rate was worth ~0.02 in usnwr rankings. im still having a hard time understanding the drop

It's not the bar passage rate drop itself, it's the fact that when you don't pass the bar, you can't be a lawyer. The lower bar passage rate led to a lower employment rate, therefore a lower ranking. Again, as cricketlove and I have mentioned, USNews ranking should not play a big part in your decision, and I would say it shouldn't play a part at all since raw employment data is available for every school. If you choose not to come to Wake, do so because of geographic, financial, employment, and/or personal reasons.

Here is an e-mail from Interim Dean Reynolds to the students this morning:

Dear Wake Forest Law students:

I hope you are having a wonderful spring break. I am already looking forward to welcoming you back, however. It’s just no good here without you.

Early this week, I spent several days in Washington, D.C., with fellow alumni at an event you’ll want to take part in after you’ve been in practice for three years or more - being admitted to the U.S. Supreme Court bar. Every year the law school sponsors a group of alumni for the swearing-in ceremony and invites the justices to join us in a post-ceremony reception. This year, we presented 23 alumni for admission to the bar, including six members of the Rose Council, our young alumni board. Afterwards, Chief Justice John Roberts and Associate Justices Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Sonia Sotomayor joined us to chat and to pose for pictures. At an event the night before the ceremony, the alumni shared with me what their Wake Forest degrees and their alumni friends have meant to them. They represented generations of Wake Forest Law alumni, attesting to the value of their Wake Law experience in shaping successful careers and lives.

That pride in my degree and my confidence in the excellence of the legal education we provide here carried me through the next day when U.S. News and World Report published its annual rankings. Those rankings placed Wake Forest Law at 47 among the 203 accredited law schools, down from the rankings of 36 and 31 the two years before. While we are far from complacent about the rankings, let me share some perspective.

Out of the past 21 years for which we have USNWR records, 16 years of our rankings have placed Wake Forest Law in the 30s. Our rankings bounced in and out of the 40s for five of those years. In recent years, students of the USNWR rankings know that across legal education, the rankings have been particularly unstable.

We have every reason to be confident that this year’s bounce is temporary. We know that the bar exam and employment experience of the Class of 2013, on which the 2016 rankings were based, was aberrational. The USNWR heavily weighs employment 9 months after graduation. The Class of 2013 had an usually low bar passage rate, which in turn, negatively impacted overall employment at the 9-month mark. Sure enough, at 9 months, only 62% of the Class of 2013 had long-term employment in which a JD was required or preferred -- our lowest employment rate ever. The Class of 2014 did better on the bar, and for that reason and others, the Class of 2014 has exceeded the percentage of employment compared with the Class of 2013 by a margin that continues to grow as we finish our data collection. The 2017 rankings will draw on this much-improved employment experience.

Your law school takes bar passage and preparation for employment very seriously. And you know firsthand that we have acted strategically in ways that support your preparation for the bar and preparation for employment. For example, we have created new courses that provide you with extra help in preparing for the bar. Also, on the employment side, we added a new 1L course, starting with the Class of 2016, that focuses on skills for securing employment.

I’ve experienced legal education at Wake Forest Law as a student, as a professor, and as interim dean. From all those perspectives, I am confident that our school is stronger than ever -- stronger even than the school the alumni were bragging about at the swearing-in ceremony. With a great deal of pride, I have watched how dedicated faculty and staff have made a great law school even greater. Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

All my good wishes,

Suzanne Reynolds

[LawsRUs]

^^ now that helps and clarifies. thanks man

[cricketlove00]

Jay Shively,

Serious questions... Are you a graduate of Wake Forest Law? Have you ever attended a class? If not, how can you possibly know whether or not the law education at Wake Forest is good or not. Wake Forest Law only placed 56% of their students into JD required positions. Only 13% got big law. Which means a large number of your graduates moved back in with their parents... I mean roomates.

Clever.

[withoutapaddle]

Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

Stronger than the 70's, 80's, even 90's?

Here's the thing about Dean's and Professors that current applicants need to get through their heads... They need your federal student loans to survive. If they don't get enough students to sign up for student loans or have parents that will pay 200K for a piece of paper they lose their jobs. Why? Because without loans and rich parents these schools close. If Wake Forest Law's ranking dropped to 100, they would still tell you what a great value the degree is. To say otherwise would be career suicide.

Only go to Wake Forest Law on a full ride or you know you're going to finish in the top 10%, and there's a 90% chance you won't. Otherwise you have a 44% chance based off LST that you'll be unemployed. To put that in perspective, you have a 44% chance that you will be mass applying for jobs and competing with people with three or more years experience. You will be sitting in your high school bedroom in your parents house stalking the facebooks of people who are the same age or younger doing better career wise than you. You'll avoid social settings because you'll be afraid that your peers will ask you where you work or live. Also, you won't even have money to socialize because your only friend is Uncle Sam, and he's expensive to hang out with. You will be depressed because you'll have student loans at 5-7 percent interest that you have no means of paying so you defer until the inevitable happens and you have to start paying it. You'll likely take an entry level 30K-40K year job that you could have gotten with your liberal arts degree in basket weaving. You will be broke, and you will feel hopeless, and the dean of Wake Forest Law will be nowhere in site to offer you relief. He made his money, now it's time to focus on next years lemmings.

[cal2013]

Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

Stronger than the 70's, 80's, even 90's?

Here's the thing about Dean's and Professors that current applicants need to get through their heads... They need your federal student loans to survive. If they don't get enough students to sign up for student loans or have parents that will pay 200K for a piece of paper they lose their jobs. Why? Because without loans and rich parents these schools close. If Wake Forest Law's ranking dropped to 100, they would still tell you what a great value the degree is. To say otherwise would be career suicide.

Only go to Wake Forest Law on a full ride or you know you're going to finish in the top 10%, and there's a 90% chance you won't. Otherwise you have a 44% chance based off LST that you'll be unemployed. To put that in perspective, you have a 44% chance that you will be mass applying for jobs and competing with people with three or more years experience. You will be sitting in your high school bedroom in your parents house stalking the facebooks of people who are the same age or younger doing better career wise than you. You'll avoid social settings because you'll be afraid that your peers will ask you where you work or live. Also, you won't even have money to socialize because your only friend is Uncle Sam, and he's expensive to hang out with. You will be depressed because you'll have student loans at 5-7 percent interest that you have no means of paying so you defer until the inevitable happens and you have to start paying it. You'll likely take an entry level 30K-40K year job that you could have gotten with your liberal arts degree in basket weaving. You will be broke, and you will feel hopeless, and the dean of Wake Forest Law will be nowhere in site to offer you relief. He made his money, now it's time to focus on next years lemmings.

1. Do you attend Wake?
2. Are you applying to Wake this cycle?

If the answer to both of those is 'no' and you are simply here to throw shade, then please GTFO of this thread. There are other threads dedicated to this sort of cynicism.

[AT9]

What's your issue with Wake? I'm not saying it's a great investment or that I'm happy with the sudden drop in bar passage and employment stats - it's extremely discomforting to me.

That said, Wake's numbers are historically on par with its peer schools like UNC, UGA, etc. And the email I posted was (1) to current students, not applicants and (2) it's from the interim dean who happens to be a professor. She won't be dean after this year anyway and it's not like tons of students are gonna drop out.

You can accuse Wake of having poor outcomes right now, and I'd agree. But you can't accuse them of being shady or manipulative. They are one of the most transparent schools I know of.

[WatfordForTheWin]

Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

Stronger than the 70's, 80's, even 90's?

Here's the thing about Dean's and Professors that current applicants need to get through their heads... They need your federal student loans to survive. If they don't get enough students to sign up for student loans or have parents that will pay 200K for a piece of paper they lose their jobs. Why? Because without loans and rich parents these schools close. If Wake Forest Law's ranking dropped to 100, they would still tell you what a great value the degree is. To say otherwise would be career suicide.

Only go to Wake Forest Law on a full ride or you know you're going to finish in the top 10%, and there's a 90% chance you won't. Otherwise you have a 44% chance based off LST that you'll be unemployed. To put that in perspective, you have a 44% chance that you will be mass applying for jobs and competing with people with three or more years experience. You will be sitting in your high school bedroom in your parents house stalking the facebooks of people who are the same age or younger doing better career wise than you. You'll avoid social settings because you'll be afraid that your peers will ask you where you work or live. Also, you won't even have money to socialize because your only friend is Uncle Sam, and he's expensive to hang out with. You will be depressed because you'll have student loans at 5-7 percent interest that you have no means of paying so you defer until the inevitable happens and you have to start paying it. You'll likely take an entry level 30K-40K year job that you could have gotten with your liberal arts degree in basket weaving. You will be broke, and you will feel hopeless, and the dean of Wake Forest Law will be nowhere in site to offer you relief. He made his money, now it's time to focus on next years lemmings.

Lol you have spent waaayyy to much time in the TLS forums bro.

[Moneytrees]

That guy is being a bit cynical, but Wake Forest has definitely been struggling with employment as of late. Over the past 5 years, employment rates out of Wake have hovered around 60%. Despite having bigger classes, UNC and UGA (to name the two schools that were just mentioned) have better placement than Wake.

The good thing is that Wake Forest is generous with merit aid. But applicants have to be aware of the risks.

[itascot1992]

What's your issue with Wake? I'm not saying it's a great investment or that I'm happy with the sudden drop in bar passage and employment stats - it's extremely discomforting to me.

That said, Wake's numbers are historically on par with its peer schools like UNC, UGA, etc. And the email I posted was (1) to current students, not applicants and (2) it's from the interim dean who happens to be a professor. She won't be dean after this year anyway and it's not like tons of students are gonna drop out.

You can accuse Wake of having poor outcomes right now, and I'd agree. But you can't accuse them of being shady or manipulative. They are one of the most transparent schools I know of.

He must have been denied from wake

[OhBoyOhBortles]

He must have been denied from wake

I don't think this is the case.

That guy is being a bit cynical, but Wake Forest has definitely been struggling with employment as of late. Over the past 5 years, employment rates out of Wake have hovered around 60%. Despite having bigger classes, UNC and UGA (to name the two schools that were just mentioned) have better placement than Wake.

The good thing is that Wake Forest is generous with merit aid. But applicants have to be aware of the risks.

+1

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand...

You can accuse Wake of having poor outcomes right now, and I'd agree. But you can't accuse them of being shady or manipulative. They are one of the most transparent schools I know of.

+1. I appreciate their transparency and willingness to respond openly, and promptly, to the fall in rankings.

[cricketlove00]

Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

Stronger than the 70's, 80's, even 90's?

Here's the thing about Dean's and Professors that current applicants need to get through their heads... They need your federal student loans to survive. If they don't get enough students to sign up for student loans or have parents that will pay 200K for a piece of paper they lose their jobs. Why? Because without loans and rich parents these schools close. If Wake Forest Law's ranking dropped to 100, they would still tell you what a great value the degree is. To say otherwise would be career suicide.

Only go to Wake Forest Law on a full ride or you know you're going to finish in the top 10%, and there's a 90% chance you won't. Otherwise you have a 44% chance based off LST that you'll be unemployed. To put that in perspective, you have a 44% chance that you will be mass applying for jobs and competing with people with three or more years experience. You will be sitting in your high school bedroom in your parents house stalking the facebooks of people who are the same age or younger doing better career wise than you. You'll avoid social settings because you'll be afraid that your peers will ask you where you work or live. Also, you won't even have money to socialize because your only friend is Uncle Sam, and he's expensive to hang out with. You will be depressed because you'll have student loans at 5-7 percent interest that you have no means of paying so you defer until the inevitable happens and you have to start paying it. You'll likely take an entry level 30K-40K year job that you could have gotten with your liberal arts degree in basket weaving. You will be broke, and you will feel hopeless, and the dean of Wake Forest Law will be nowhere in site to offer you relief. He made his money, now it's time to focus on next years lemmings.

This literally made me cackle

[SquedTheScholar]

Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

Stronger than the 70's, 80's, even 90's?

Here's the thing about Dean's and Professors that current applicants need to get through their heads... They need your federal student loans to survive. If they don't get enough students to sign up for student loans or have parents that will pay 200K for a piece of paper they lose their jobs. Why? Because without loans and rich parents these schools close. If Wake Forest Law's ranking dropped to 100, they would still tell you what a great value the degree is. To say otherwise would be career suicide.

Only go to Wake Forest Law on a full ride or you know you're going to finish in the top 10%, and there's a 90% chance you won't. Otherwise you have a 44% chance based off LST that you'll be unemployed. To put that in perspective, you have a 44% chance that you will be mass applying for jobs and competing with people with three or more years experience. You will be sitting in your high school bedroom in your parents house stalking the facebooks of people who are the same age or younger doing better career wise than you. You'll avoid social settings because you'll be afraid that your peers will ask you where you work or live. Also, you won't even have money to socialize because your only friend is Uncle Sam, and he's expensive to hang out with. You will be depressed because you'll have student loans at 5-7 percent interest that you have no means of paying so you defer until the inevitable happens and you have to start paying it. You'll likely take an entry level 30K-40K year job that you could have gotten with your liberal arts degree in basket weaving. You will be broke, and you will feel hopeless, and the dean of Wake Forest Law will be nowhere in site to offer you relief. He made his money, now it's time to focus on next years lemmings.

This literally made me cackle

Why did this make you cackle? Is it incorrect?

[cricketlove00]

More so the drama of it all.

[FamilyLawEsq]

Your degree from Wake Forest law is stronger than ever.

Stronger than the 70's, 80's, even 90's?

Here's the thing about Dean's and Professors that current applicants need to get through their heads... They need your federal student loans to survive. If they don't get enough students to sign up for student loans or have parents that will pay 200K for a piece of paper they lose their jobs. Why? Because without loans and rich parents these schools close. If Wake Forest Law's ranking dropped to 100, they would still tell you what a great value the degree is. To say otherwise would be career suicide.

Only go to Wake Forest Law on a full ride or you know you're going to finish in the top 10%, and there's a 90% chance you won't. Otherwise you have a 44% chance based off LST that you'll be unemployed. To put that in perspective, you have a 44% chance that you will be mass applying for jobs and competing with people with three or more years experience. You will be sitting in your high school bedroom in your parents house stalking the facebooks of people who are the same age or younger doing better career wise than you. You'll avoid social settings because you'll be afraid that your peers will ask you where you work or live. Also, you won't even have money to socialize because your only friend is Uncle Sam, and he's expensive to hang out with. You will be depressed because you'll have student loans at 5-7 percent interest that you have no means of paying so you defer until the inevitable happens and you have to start paying it. You'll likely take an entry level 30K-40K year job that you could have gotten with your liberal arts degree in basket weaving. You will be broke, and you will feel hopeless, and the dean of Wake Forest Law will be nowhere in site to offer you relief. He made his money, now it's time to focus on next years lemmings.

This literally made me cackle

Why did this make you cackle? Is it incorrect?

Yes, it is. And by the way, Dean Reynolds is female and well-regarded. Now get out of this thread in that 1) you (Squed) are misinformed; and 2) you add nothing meaningful to the thread. Now go visit the Vale and learn that a T-14 education does not make you bullet-proof from this economy.