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Postby ashahid » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:20 pm


Macaulay Honors College @ Queens College
Graduated in 2012
psychology and political science double major
philosophy and honors in the humanities double minor
various internships including: academia, non-profits, lab, consulting firm
significant amount of community service

I worked full-time during 2/4 years of college while also interning, etc.--only worth mentioning on here because I plan to attend a part-time program (though I worked at a bar for those two years, so I definitely wouldn't delve into it as a part of my application :mrgreen: )

Full-time work since graduation in May 2012, first in financial services and now in media.

Background Info:

I decided to take a year to make sure that this is a worth-while investment for me, and to save up. I've reached a few conclusions:

1) Yes, I definitely, 100% want to pursue law, but I apparently have a phobia of debt.
2) No, I don't feel comfortable leaving my current 45k/year job AND taking on an annual debt comparable to my current salary. This means I am also not willing to leave NY/NJ
3) I'm not necessarily interested in BigLaw--so this impacted my school-choice/debt-threshhold.
4) I am definitely applying this cycle.

My game-plan is now to go to a part-time law school in NY/NJ. Retaking the LSAT is a viable option. My 158 was without much studying at all (which in retrospect was subconscious self-sabotage because I wasn't ready to go yet), so retaking is not out of the question, and neither is a significant score-increase-- but it would be December, so pretty late in the cycle .

With this in mind, there are a few parts to my question
(sorry if not all of them adhere to "what are my chances):

1) What are my chances at (part-time) Brooklyn, Fordham, Rutgers?
2) Am I overlooking any worthwhile part-time programs in the area? (Not really interested in Cardozo)
3) Should I apply ED Brooklyn?
Should I EA Fordham?
Should I regularly apply to all?
Or--should I apply to Brooklyn regular decision early in the cycle, retake the LSAT in Dec, and then apply to Fordham?
Any other viable scenarios I'm missing?
4) Can one of my recommendations be an employer? Or is my academic career too recent?
5) Given the fact that I'm only looking into part-time programs in the area, is retaking the LSAT worth it?
6) Any chance at any scholarship $$?
7) Is any of my reasoning just plain stupid?

Thanks in advance!

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Toby Ziegler
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Re: 158/3.9

Postby Toby Ziegler » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:36 pm

Man, you are an ideal candidate for a retake. You should hit the books way hard in the next 6 weeks and retake in October if you can get 170+ You're looking at money from NYU and Columbia.


You simply cannot afford to not retake. You would be doing yourself an incredible disservice by neglecting to retake.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby ashahid » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:41 pm

Travis12 wrote:Man, you are an ideal candidate for a retake. You should hit the books way hard in the next 6 weeks and retake in October if you can get 170+ You're looking at money from NYU and Columbia.


You simply cannot afford to not retake. You would be doing yourself an incredible disservice by neglecting to retake.

Oh gosh. I considered doing that, but then I realized I didn't feel comfortable going full-time and leaving my job. I'd still consider retaking in October, but is it sufficient time to study even if I go hard? I don't want to be irresponsible/hasty and shoot myself in the foot.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby WokeUpInACar » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:44 pm

The only school you listed that is worth attending is Fordham. And you should only go there with a very significant scholarship. However above all else, you absolutely positively MUST retake the LSAT. You have an excellent GPA and with extensive studying you are probably capable of 170 or very near it, which would almost certainly result in either a full ride at Fordham or admission to NYU/Columbia if you wanted to go full time. Retaking the LSAT would very likely be worth over $100k in scholarships for you.

Scoring near 170 would also give you the option of attending a lower top 14 school full time with a huge scholarship, which would probably be your best choice if you are truly committed to practicing law. A Fordham full ride would be a great option as well though.

RETAKE. RETAKE. RETAKE. RETAKE. RETAKE. You will never get a better ROI on your time than studying for the LSAT. If you are still considering Brooklyn, go to lawschooltransparency.com and check out their employment numbers. Less than HALF of their graduates find jobs that require a law degree, do not go there for any reason.

ETA: I would suggest not taking in October unless your practice tests are consistently averaging around 170, which seems pretty unlikely with only 6 weeks to prepare.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby hephaestus » Sun Aug 25, 2013 3:55 pm

Retaking will open more doors than you realize. I would even do it in December. It will help more than applying early.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Aug 25, 2013 4:21 pm

Retake December

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby deadpanic » Sun Aug 25, 2013 5:23 pm

I had a similar LSAT (wish I had that GPA) and not retaking is one of my biggest regrets of my life. I would highly recommend a retake so you have a chance at a legal job in the future.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby wtrc » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:55 pm

Law school is likely not worth it for you....

Unless you retake. C'mon now. Get a 172+ and have your choice of law school.

ETA: as above posters have said, October may be too soon. Think about possibly December. I work FT as well, studying while working can definitely be done.

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logical seasoning
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Re: 158/3.9

Postby logical seasoning » Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:05 am

I hate jumping on the retake wagon, but I feel it is a must here--- RETAKE

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby xylocarp » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:00 pm

Everyone has already told you to retake, which is obviously your best course of action by far, but I think you should also consider schools with full-time programs as well as schools outside of NY or NJ. Depending on your future LSAT score, you could DEFINITELY be in the running for big scholarships in the T14. You could end up choosing between a $$$$ at Michigan or Virginia or Penn vs. $$$$ at Fordham or Rutgers or Brooklyn, in which case MVP is the clear choice despite your geographical/part-time preferences. You might still have some debt (depending on your savings), but the increased job prospects will be worth it, at least in my opinion. My point is, if you really want to be a lawyer and you score high on your retake, I wouldn't discount full-time/non-NY/NJ T14s. With a great retake, you don't HAVE to make the choice between enormous debt and only part-time programs.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby NYstate » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:19 pm

Are you URM?

Either way, don't limit yourself to part time programs. With the right LSAT you could get significant money at a top school, so the debt may not be as bad as you think.
Working and going to school part time is really challenging and works best for people who have careers where a JD will be helpful.

It is better to apply later with a good LSAT than it is to apply early with the stats you have.
Please trust TLS on this one. There is a good deal of data behind this advice.

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby xxxkrs1xxx » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:12 am

I applied for full time, but I got into Brooklyn with a 157, 3.93 (didn't end up going though). I didn't get a scholarship, but that's beause you need at least a 158 (I'm pretty sure) to get any money, so I would think you would get in there with $.

I got wait listed to Fordham, but never sent any LOCIs and didn't respond to any e-mails over the summer asking if I was still interested (because I had already decided to go somewhere else). So I would think you'd also have a relatively good shot at Fordham, but you'd probably be unlikely to get any money.

Good luck!

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby RELIC » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:17 am


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Re: 158/3.9

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 1:53 pm

How can you be debt averse and not immediately think "retake"??? The guy who said it could be worth six-figures was right.

A full scholly to a PT school like Brooklyn is easily attainable. A few more points and you could even get one to Fordham or money to CLS/NYU. You'd be crazy to waste the GPA and even crazier to turn down a T6 admission to keep a 45K a year job (and if you could go to part-time, you could structure law school around your job).

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Re: 158/3.9

Postby utlaw2007 » Thu Sep 05, 2013 5:59 pm

logical seasoning wrote:I hate jumping on the retake wagon, but I feel it is a must here--- RETAKE

I think you have your answer. There should be absolutely no consideration given towards anything else.

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