Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Not sure where your numbers will get you? Dying to know where you stand? Come have your palms read by your fellow posters!
User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:42 pm

I'm posting here to describe my cycle and possibly give some hope to splitters, whose chances are getting better and better with the decline in law school applications. While I didn't get into the T14's that accept splitters (GULC, NU, UVA), this post may help those with scores in the mid to high 160's and <3.0 GPAs.

You can see my results here: http://lawschoolnumbers.com/Wily

My cycle started off rough - as described by Prof. Campos in one of his blog posts, for several months my only options were St. John's and Hofstra with full scholarships. I was waitlisted to 11 out of the 23 schools I applied to. At one point, I even made a post here asking whether I underperformed this cycle.

But in April and May, I started getting off waitlists to schools I didn't think I had a good shot at. These included Fordham, GW, BC, and WUSTL. I was aggressive in negotiating scholarships, and in the end narrowed my decision to between $84k from WUSTL, $81k from GW, and a full ride from Cardozo. For various reasons, I ended up choosing GW with $81k.

Some thoughts:

I think one key part of my application was writing a good addendum for my low GPA, which for me was partially caused by some medical issues during college. I revised it with the help of some pre-law advisers several times. I'd be happy to read over any addenda that people in the next cycle have.

Another key part was applying to a lot of schools, which included particularly splitter friendly schools like GW and WUSTL. Also, schools I thought I had no chance at (Fordham, BC) took me despite my terrible GPA. Point is, don't be afraid to apply to a lot of schools (especially if your LSAT gets you some fee waivers) that you might not think you have a good shot at.

Since some people have PMed me about other factors that may have helped me with my acceptances/scholarships - I have 3 years of work experience at law firms/startups/research and went to Harvard undergrad. I don't know how much these factors changed anything.

Schools are getting more and more desperate these days. My high school friend who graduated from GW last year had a much higher GPA and a slightly higher LSAT than I did, and got nothing in scholarships. As Prof. Campos and others have pointed out, schools are competing for the higher stats now by throwing tuition discounts all over the place, to try to preserve their medians and their standing in the rankings. The changes in the "market" for law students will benefit everyone, but I believe they especially benefit splitters.

Anyway, I'll be happy to take questions or PMs about my cycle.
Last edited by Wily on Wed Jul 25, 2012 11:04 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2698
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby androstan » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:45 pm

2.9/169, admitted last year, I got $0 at GW.

User avatar
dowu
Posts: 8334
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 9:47 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby dowu » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:49 pm

androstan wrote:2.9/169, admitted last year, I got $0 at GW.


OUCH. You should have negotiated with that LSAT.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:49 pm

Also, I'll preemptively say, retake your 168 if you do have a choice to do so. I did so in June for my third take, but unfortunately did not score higher than 168. Still, if the high 160's is the best score you can get, you might find my cycle helpful.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:50 pm

androstan wrote:2.9/169, admitted last year, I got $0 at GW.


Yea, the problem was that it was last year, before the 17% decline in LSAT takers.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Fri Jul 06, 2012 8:37 pm

Bump for any interested splitters.

EdBurke
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 11:48 am

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby EdBurke » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:07 am

How long/hard was it to get them to make the final scholarship offers? I'm in a similar position to yourself (3.1/168 - pending my June LSAT retake) right now; I'm wondering how much room to negotiate I'll have once I come off waitlists. Which I assume I'll get stuck on for a while until people need my LSAT score.

User avatar
catholicgirl
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby catholicgirl » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:23 am

Reverse splitter with a 3.9ish and a 165. Way different cycle money-wise than Wily because I targeted different schools.

T-14: Dinged at NYU, WL at Northwestern and Duke (should have waited those out before withdrawing) in at UVA and Chicago at sticker. Attending chicago.

Elsewhere: OSU (60k/3years) BU, BC (YP dinged), Fordham (10k). Had I waited longer, probably would have gotten more aid from these schools, but choose to withdraw.
Last edited by catholicgirl on Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Bwana
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Aug 18, 2010 1:58 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Bwana » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:22 am

I also have a 2.7/168. I had a similar cycle. I did not break the T-14, but was reserved and held at Cornell and GULC. I got money from WUSTL, Minn, and UCI. I cast a wide net and I think I was accepted to every school I applied to below WUSTL and Minn, some at sticker. Ultimately, I decided on UCI. It was a far less tragic cycle than I feared it would be.

I also had a reasonable addendum explaining my grades. I do not think it made much of a difference. Perhaps it gave admissions pause long enough to look at the rest of the application.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:39 am

Isn't a 2.7 at Harvard undergrad like the bottom 5%? Seems law schools are getting mighty desperate these days.

User avatar
catholicgirl
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby catholicgirl » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:41 am

Bildungsroman wrote:Seems law schools are getting mighty desperate these days.


Hence my admission to Chicago.

User avatar
Bildungsroman
Posts: 5548
Joined: Sun Apr 11, 2010 2:42 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Bildungsroman » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:50 am

catholicgirl wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Seems law schools are getting mighty desperate these days.


Hence my admission to Chicago.

No no no, when a school like UChicago takes people with lower numbers than usual, they're not being desperate; they're just more willing to find those diamonds in the rough.

User avatar
catholicgirl
Posts: 320
Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2011 4:34 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby catholicgirl » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:57 am

Bildungsroman wrote:
catholicgirl wrote:
Bildungsroman wrote:Seems law schools are getting mighty desperate these days.


Hence my admission to Chicago.

No no no, when a school like UChicago takes people with lower numbers than usual, they're not being desperate; they're just more willing to find those diamonds in the rough.


Awesome, I'm Eliza Doolittle.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:48 pm

EdBurke wrote:How long/hard was it to get them to make the final scholarship offers? I'm in a similar position to yourself (3.1/168 - pending my June LSAT retake) right now; I'm wondering how much room to negotiate I'll have once I come off waitlists. Which I assume I'll get stuck on for a while until people need my LSAT score.


For the schools I got off the WL for, it didn't take long at all once I was off the WL.

GW's offer came about a week and a half after they told me I was accepted. I did email them with my offers from WUSTL and Cardozo before they came out with their initial $25k, so that may have helped a little. They only raised it to $27k after I asked again.

WUSTL's offer came at the same time I was admitted. It was initially $20k and then I negotiated it up to $28k after showing them my offer from GW.

Fordham and BC both told me quite quickly that they had no money to offer me.

All of these WL offers happened after mid-April, and BC's, the latest one, only came in late June, so you may have to wait a while to get off of those lists.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:49 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:Isn't a 2.7 at Harvard undergrad like the bottom 5%? Seems law schools are getting mighty desperate these days.


Yep, I'm in no way proud of it, but I'm sure it's in the bottom 5%. Like I said above, the schools' desperation is a big benefit for splitters like me.

User avatar
Wily
Posts: 280
Joined: Wed Mar 14, 2012 7:35 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Wily » Thu Jul 19, 2012 11:48 pm

Bump for splitters!

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Nova » Fri Jul 20, 2012 10:08 am

3.0/167, Attending a T20 too 8)

User avatar
splitbrain
Posts: 656
Joined: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:38 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby splitbrain » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:18 pm

<3.0, 168-170 here - still negotiating and on a couple waitlists but life is freaking good this cycle

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Nova » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:19 pm

splitbrain wrote:<3.0, 168-170 here - still negotiating and on a couple waitlists but life is freaking good this cycle


Word. This cycle and next are great times to be applying to LS. Buy low. 8)

User avatar
TheThriller
Posts: 2285
Joined: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:12 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby TheThriller » Fri Jul 20, 2012 12:24 pm

splitbrain wrote:<3.0, 168-170 here - still negotiating and on a couple waitlists but life is freaking good this cycle


PM with more specific info? I'm splitting with a 3.01 and 167-170 (retaking in Otc. though).

Just need some hope and motivation!

Splitterverse
Posts: 9
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Splitterverse » Sun Jul 22, 2012 1:21 pm

I imagine this downward trend will even continue through the 2013-2014 cycle as sometimes it takes news (i.e. law degrees do not guarantee riches) awhile to sink in for some. Those who may still be applying this cycle with 148 LSAT scores may finally "get it" by 2013.

amorphix
Posts: 15
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:17 am

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby amorphix » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:19 am

Are you an URM? Did you apply during your senior year of under grad? Any significant softs?

Applying for the 2012-2013 cycle here. I have a 3.06, was testing into the low 160s for LSAT, but am hoping to bump to high 160s. Originally, I was hoping to use BU and GW as my high reaches, but now, am considering trying for others in the T20. With that GPA, any guesses as to what LSAT score I'd need to have a shot at any of them?

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Nova » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:12 am

amorphix wrote:Are you an URM? Did you apply during your senior year of under grad? Any significant softs?

Applying for the 2012-2013 cycle here. I have a 3.06, was testing into the low 160s for LSAT, but am hoping to bump to high 160s. Originally, I was hoping to use BU and GW as my high reaches, but now, am considering trying for others in the T20. With that GPA, any guesses as to what LSAT score I'd need to have a shot at any of them?


Median or above.

User avatar
androstan
Posts: 2698
Joined: Mon Jul 19, 2010 8:07 am

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby androstan » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:16 am

Nova wrote:
amorphix wrote:Are you an URM? Did you apply during your senior year of under grad? Any significant softs?

Applying for the 2012-2013 cycle here. I have a 3.06, was testing into the low 160s for LSAT, but am hoping to bump to high 160s. Originally, I was hoping to use BU and GW as my high reaches, but now, am considering trying for others in the T20. With that GPA, any guesses as to what LSAT score I'd need to have a shot at any of them?


Median or above.


Generally, with a <GPA25, you're going to need at least the school's LSAT75, and preferably 1 point above their LSAT75.

Then again, everyone is saying this cycle is going to be different. I'd say shoot for at LEAST a 167. A 169 will be a golden ticket to the T20, and a 172 gives you a good shot at the T14.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Some hope for splitters - my cycle (2.7/168)

Postby Nova » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:26 am

androstan wrote:
Nova wrote:
amorphix wrote:Are you an URM? Did you apply during your senior year of under grad? Any significant softs?

Applying for the 2012-2013 cycle here. I have a 3.06, was testing into the low 160s for LSAT, but am hoping to bump to high 160s. Originally, I was hoping to use BU and GW as my high reaches, but now, am considering trying for others in the T20. With that GPA, any guesses as to what LSAT score I'd need to have a shot at any of them?


Median or above.


Generally, with a <GPA25, you're going to need at least the school's LSAT75, and preferably 1 point above their LSAT75.

Then again, everyone is saying this cycle is going to be different. I'd say shoot for at LEAST a 167. A 169 will be a golden ticket to the T20, and a 172 gives you a good shot at the T14.


Sure, the higher the score the better. Based on my cycle (167/3.0) and LSN, hitting median at many schools is enough to keep an applicant out of the auto reject pile. That entails a shot. I agree that being above the 75th would put Amorphix in a much better position.




Return to “What are my chances?”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest