168 / 3.11

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FlanSolo
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168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:04 pm

I saw someone else make one of these with the same scores... but we're applying to some different and I'll give a bit more context:

-3.5 Years WE (3 promotions) in PR/public affairs
-Went to top liberal arts school (average GPA 3.4, I'm in bottom quarter of GPA, but top quarter of LSAT)
-Increasing trend in GPA (2.9, 2.7, 3.25, 3.5)
-Played 4 years of varsity baseball during college

I'm applying to:

Virginia
Georgetown
GW
WSUTL
American
Duke
George Mason
UNC
William and Mary
Emory

Thoughts? Thanks everybody!

hurldes
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby hurldes » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:10 pm

I'd say you're in at GMU and American for sure. Good shot at GW, UNC, W&M. Out at GT, UVA and Duke.

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bk1
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:11 pm

If you want the lower T14 you'll need to retake.

FlanSolo
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:13 pm

Thanks ...so how much is this increasing trend good for anyway?

paulinaporizkova
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:14 pm

bk1 wrote:If you want the lower T14 you'll need to retake.


to at least a 170 or no chance

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Grizz
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby Grizz » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:14 pm

FlanSolo wrote:Thanks ...so how much is this increasing trend good for anyway?


Basically nothing. Everyone and their mother has an increasing trend.

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bk1
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby bk1 » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:14 pm

FlanSolo wrote:Thanks ...so how much is this increasing trend good for anyway?


Somewhere between nothing and very little.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:15 pm

bk1 wrote:
FlanSolo wrote:Thanks ...so how much is this increasing trend good for anyway?


Somewhere between nothing and very little.


i'd go with the former

FlanSolo
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:16 pm

paulinaporizkova wrote:
bk1 wrote:
FlanSolo wrote:Thanks ...so how much is this increasing trend good for anyway?


Somewhere between nothing and very little.


i'd go with the former


Well, I think we can agree it would help relative to another 168/3.1 applicant who had a flat or declining line... wherever they are.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby paulinaporizkova » Tue Feb 22, 2011 7:19 pm

FlanSolo wrote:
paulinaporizkova wrote:
bk1 wrote:
FlanSolo wrote:Thanks ...so how much is this increasing trend good for anyway?


Somewhere between nothing and very little.


i'd go with the former


Well, I think we can agree it would help relative to another 168/3.1 applicant who had a flat or declining line... wherever they are.


hmm....this is very debatable. it would probably come down to something else about your respective apps to be honest

crit_racer
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby crit_racer » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:03 am

I had a low 2 GPA after 2 years of college and a 3.85 GPA for the last 2 years of college. very serious upward grade trend. So far, it hasn't done me any favors.

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Verity
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:10 am

FlanSolo wrote:I saw someone else make one of these with the same scores... but we're applying to some different and I'll give a bit more context:

-3.5 Years WE (3 promotions) in PR/public affairs
-Went to top liberal arts school (average GPA 3.4, I'm in bottom quarter of GPA, but top quarter of LSAT)
-Increasing trend in GPA (2.9, 2.7, 3.25, 3.5)
-Played 4 years of varsity baseball during college

I'm applying to:

Virginia - REJECT
Georgetown - REJECT
GW - W/L (may be too late in the cycle though)
WUSTL - ACCEPT
American - ACCEPT
Duke - REJECT
George Mason - W/L;ACCEPT
UNC - W/L;REJECT
William and Mary - W/L;ACCEPT
Emory - W/L;REJECT


Thoughts? Thanks everybody!


You should have applied earlier. Retake if possible and reapply next cycle.

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harrijust86
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby harrijust86 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:34 am

Agreed with the guy above me... It seems that applying this late in the cycle pretty much nueters you everywhere...

I dont want to wait until next cycle, but it seems everyone else is suggesting such action is necessary

FlanSolo
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 12:01 pm

Yeah, I don't really see myself retaking. I work full time and studied a fair amount. The 168 is right in the middle of my range, I was PTing from 166-171, so I don't think there's much reason to believe I'll do much better.

Is the cycle that bad even for the schools that have extended deadlines? GW's for example is March 31.

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bk1
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 1:56 pm

FlanSolo wrote:Yeah, I don't really see myself retaking. I work full time and studied a fair amount. The 168 is right in the middle of my range, I was PTing from 166-171, so I don't think there's much reason to believe I'll do much better.

Is the cycle that bad even for the schools that have extended deadlines? GW's for example is March 31.


Put in the time and retake even if it is hard and will sap all the free time you have for several months, even if you fall short of a 170 it would be foolish to not even attempt to retake.

The difference between a 168 and a 170 is huge. That's the difference between going from WUSTL/GW to Cornell/Georgetown instead.

FlanSolo
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:09 pm

bk1 wrote:
FlanSolo wrote:Yeah, I don't really see myself retaking. I work full time and studied a fair amount. The 168 is right in the middle of my range, I was PTing from 166-171, so I don't think there's much reason to believe I'll do much better.

Is the cycle that bad even for the schools that have extended deadlines? GW's for example is March 31.


Put in the time and retake even if it is hard and will sap all the free time you have for several months, even if you fall short of a 170 it would be foolish to not even attempt to retake.

The difference between a 168 and a 170 is huge. That's the difference between going from WUSTL/GW to Cornell/Georgetown instead.


I hear you, but life is a lot more complicated than that. I'm not going to bust my balls for a few more months at the mere possibility of improving my score by two points to head when my entire life is oriented around the Mid-Atlantic anyway. If I were unattached and didn't have a really good professional network in DC already (and frankly, if I were a year or two younger) I'd definitely pursue that course, but for now, it is what it is.

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bk1
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 2:21 pm

FlanSolo wrote:I hear you, but life is a lot more complicated than that. I'm not going to bust my balls for a few more months at the mere possibility of improving my score by two points to head when my entire life is oriented around the Mid-Atlantic anyway. If I were unattached and didn't have a really good professional network in DC already (and frankly, if I were a year or two younger) I'd definitely pursue that course, but for now, it is what it is.


Would you not bust your balls for the mere possibility of getting better grades in law school?

It's not like you even have to definitely take a year off to at least try to retake. Study for June, take the test, if you don't improve go to school this fall, if you do then reapply next cycle. It just seems foolish to pay sticker at GW when you could pay sticker at GULC (or get a scholarship at GW).

FlanSolo
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Wed Feb 23, 2011 3:42 pm

bk1 wrote:Would you not bust your balls for the mere possibility of getting better grades in law school?

It's not like you even have to definitely take a year off to at least try to retake. Study for June, take the test, if you don't improve go to school this fall, if you do then reapply next cycle. It just seems foolish to pay sticker at GW when you could pay sticker at GULC (or get a scholarship at GW).
[/quote]

This really doesn't relate to my willingness to work hard in law school. In law school, I wouldn't be spending 50 plus hours per week doing something completely unrelated.

Anyway, if I knew that retaking it would guarantee me a 170, I'd consider doing it, but it's just as likely I'd wind up with a 166. I prepared pretty damn well the first time around, so it's not like I could just put in some more work and automatically get a higher score. What's more, the calculator only gives me a 12 percent improved chance of GULC (at 170), so it's hardly a slam dunk. On the other hand, waiting a year would fuck up a lot of the plans my SO and I have made together, and my performance at work would suffer while preparing for the LSAT. Especially considering that I have a strong professional network, I just don't think the upside is actually that high. Money is a factor, but again, how much more am I getting at 2 points higher? I know it's a pretty rare perspective on TLS, but sometimes there is more to a decision than maximizing your odds of getting in to t14 schools.

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bk1
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:39 pm

FlanSolo wrote:This really doesn't relate to my willingness to work hard in law school. In law school, I wouldn't be spending 50 plus hours per week doing something completely unrelated.

Anyway, if I knew that retaking it would guarantee me a 170, I'd consider doing it, but it's just as likely I'd wind up with a 166. I prepared pretty damn well the first time around, so it's not like I could just put in some more work and automatically get a higher score. What's more, the calculator only gives me a 12 percent improved chance of GULC (at 170), so it's hardly a slam dunk. On the other hand, waiting a year would fuck up a lot of the plans my SO and I have made together, and my performance at work would suffer while preparing for the LSAT. Especially considering that I have a strong professional network, I just don't think the upside is actually that high. Money is a factor, but again, how much more am I getting at 2 points higher? I know it's a pretty rare perspective on TLS, but sometimes there is more to a decision than maximizing your odds of getting in to t14 schools.


Just for reference, the calculator doesn't do a very good job for predicting splitters or paying attention to how medians affect admit/waitlist/reject. For example look at http://gulc.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats From that there are only 2 rejects for those above 170. I'll grant a 170 is less sure for GULC, but with ED and a 170 or better I would bet almost anything that you will snag at least 1 of UVa or GULC. I also don't know how much money GW would give you (it might be little to none), but I do know at equal price GULC and UVa are hands down better than GW.

That being said, if waiting a year actually would fuck up the plans of you and your SO then by all means go now. If your professional contacts can help you get a job that can pay off 6 figures in debt then it isn't going to matter what school you go to.

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Verity
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:33 pm

FlanSolo wrote:This really doesn't relate to my willingness to work hard in law school. In law school, I wouldn't be spending 50 plus hours per week doing something completely unrelated.


Actually it does. The reason you work hard in LS is (largely) the same reason you work hard as an 0L: to put your future in the best possible position. If you can't afford to wait, then that's another story.


FlanSolo wrote:Anyway, if I knew that retaking it would guarantee me a 170, I'd consider doing it, but it's just as likely I'd wind up with a 166. I prepared pretty damn well the first time around, so it's not like I could just put in some more work and automatically get a higher score. What's more, the calculator only gives me a 12 percent improved chance of GULC (at 170), so it's hardly a slam dunk. On the other hand, waiting a year would fuck up a lot of the plans my SO and I have made together, and my performance at work would suffer while preparing for the LSAT. Especially considering that I have a strong professional network, I just don't think the upside is actually that high. Money is a factor, but again, how much more am I getting at 2 points higher? I know it's a pretty rare perspective on TLS, but sometimes there is more to a decision than maximizing your odds of getting in to t14 schools.



Despite contrary advice ITT, you're not getting T14 with a 3.11 GPA unless you break a 173 LSAT. But, if you get a 170+, you could be getting some nice $$$ from the schools you intend on pursuing this cycle. If debt isn't as important as time, then by all means, go now.

Also, FYI, LS in general has a nice statistical tendency to fuck up things for you and your SO. Ask my cousin, who spent 2L crying in his studio.

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bk1
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby bk1 » Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:52 pm

Verity wrote:you're not getting T14 with a 3.11 GPA unless you break a 173 LSAT.


lolwut

I wouldn't say it is guaranteed, but through multiple ED's I would easily bet on OP getting at least one T14 with a 3.11/170.

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FuManChusco
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FuManChusco » Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:55 pm

bk1 wrote:
Verity wrote:you're not getting T14 with a 3.11 GPA unless you break a 173 LSAT.


lolwut

I wouldn't say it is guaranteed, but through multiple ED's I would easily bet on OP getting at least one T14 with a 3.11/170.


Yeah, that is laughable. A 3.11/170 definitely has a fighting chance at GULC, UVA, and NU. An ED is probably necessary however. Hell, Mich might even be possible.

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Verity
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby Verity » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:03 pm

Okay, let me revise:

Verity wrote:Despite contrary advice ITT, you're not getting you have an incredibly small shot at T14 with a 3.11 GPA unless you break a 173 LSAT.


NU is the best shot, but only if you have extensive WE. The occurrence of T14 admits with that combination is almost nil.

twintipping_bumps
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby twintipping_bumps » Wed Feb 23, 2011 10:07 pm

Why not BC? The Softball league is great with some serious former baseball players kicking around in a good sports town.

FlanSolo
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Re: 168 / 3.11

Postby FlanSolo » Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:51 pm

twintipping_bumps wrote:Why not BC? The Softball league is great with some serious former baseball players kicking around in a good sports town.


Isn't BC notoriously tough on people with low GPAs? Man, If I had a time machine to go back 8 years and apply myself harder during college, that would really be fantastic. Am I missing any of the more splitter friendly schools?

Honestly, the only reason I had Duke on there is because I saw someone on a forum who went to my college with my exact stats get in there in 2007.




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