PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

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stugots26
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PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby stugots26 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:00 pm

I've got a PhD in Organic Chemistry, but my undergrad GPA - which is 9 years old now - from UPenn is below 3. I just took the GMAT yesterday to play to my strengths, and it was far above my LSAT score. Northwestern JD accepts either LSAT or GMAT this year. Is 750 a good enough score on the GMAT?

Does anyone know the scores that Northwestern likes on the GMAT, maybe from past precedent from the JD-MBA program?

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blink
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby blink » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:06 pm

stugots26 wrote:I've got a PhD in Organic Chemistry, but my undergrad GPA - which is 9 years old now - from UPenn is below 3. I just took the GMAT yesterday to play to my strengths, and it was far above my LSAT score. Northwestern JD accepts either LSAT or GMAT this year. Is 750 a good enough score on the GMAT?

Does anyone know the scores that Northwestern likes on the GMAT, maybe from past precedent from the JD-MBA program?



This isn't right.

stugots26
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby stugots26 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:10 pm

Yes it's right. Check the application. It states that the applicant is allowed to choose which exam the school considers.

Or perhaps when I was at the admissions office for my interview three weeks ago, the staff was just lying to me for kicks.
Last edited by stugots26 on Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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blink
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby blink » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:11 pm


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dextermorgan
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:15 pm

blink wrote:http://www.jdmba.northwestern.edu/faq.htm

I stand corrected.

You're both right. If you want to do only the JD you need an LSAT score.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby notanumber » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:18 pm

dextermorgan wrote:
blink wrote:http://www.jdmba.northwestern.edu/faq.htm

I stand corrected.

You're both right. If you want to do only the JD you need an LSAT score.


I could be wrong, but I think that their accelerated JD also allows one to use the GMAT. But OP will have to disclose that you have previously taken the LSAT test on your application.

stugots26
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby stugots26 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:39 pm

The regular JD program DOES NOT require an LSAT score. If one has taken the LSAT, as I have, the score is sent to them with the LSDAS packet and one must inform Northwestern of this. However, the application allows one to choose which test score - LSAT or GMAT - one would like the admissions committee to consider.

Shall I repeat the fact that I brought this up AT THE ADMISSIONS OFFICE? During my interview for the regular JD program? Since the interviewer didn't correct me with regards to my information about their standardized exam policy, I'm assuming that Northwestern accepts both for the regular JD program.

Again, it could be an evil ploy to get my hopes up. But I doubt it.

Does anyone know the median GMAT score for Northwestern? Any insight as to my original post?

09042014
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby 09042014 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:41 pm

This is just speculation but I don't think a person with a below 3 GPA will get if they don't bring a good LSAT with them. Certainly above 170, probably at 172+. I don't think even a perfect GMAT will suffice.

Why? Because you'll hurt their GPA median and not help their LSAT median at all.

Again this is speculation.

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dextermorgan
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:00 pm

stugots26 wrote:The regular JD program DOES NOT require an LSAT score. If one has taken the LSAT, as I have, the score is sent to them with the LSDAS packet and one must inform Northwestern of this. However, the application allows one to choose which test score - LSAT or GMAT - one would like the admissions committee to consider.

Shall I repeat the fact that I brought this up AT THE ADMISSIONS OFFICE? During my interview for the regular JD program? Since the interviewer didn't correct me with regards to my information about their standardized exam policy, I'm assuming that Northwestern accepts both for the regular JD program.

Again, it could be an evil ploy to get my hopes up. But I doubt it.

Does anyone know the median GMAT score for Northwestern? Any insight as to my original post?

Ahem:

NU Law Standard JD Application wrote: Examinations
The LSAT is required for admission.

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Bildungsroman
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby Bildungsroman » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:10 pm

dextermorgan wrote:Ahem:


From the application instructions for this year's J.D, app on LSAC:
Standardized Test

Applicants may take either the LSAT or the GMAT for consideration.

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dextermorgan
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:14 pm

Bildungsroman wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:Ahem:


From the application instructions for this year's J.D, app on LSAC:
Standardized Test

Applicants may take either the LSAT or the GMAT for consideration.

Then I stand corrected. I still think the OP is boned though. Remember, these schools live and die by the US News ranking.

stugots26
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby stugots26 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:25 pm

How would a low GPA hurt a median?

First of all I have been working in a lab for 6 years and now I'm also a professor. Would I really be held to the same standard, namely an undergrad GPA that is almost ten years old? I have a PhD.

They offer applicants to use an alternate exam score. Holding it against me would be ridiculous.

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NZA
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby NZA » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:27 pm

stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?

First of all I have been working in a lab for 6 years and now I'm also a professor. Would I really be held to the same standard, namely an undergrad GPA that is almost ten years old? I have a PhD.

They offer applicants to use an alternate exam score. Holding it against me would be ridiculous.


If you think you already know the answer, why bother asking the question? :roll:

Why don't you just apply next cycle and see what happens?

09042014
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby 09042014 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:30 pm

stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?

First of all I have been working in a lab for 6 years and now I'm also a professor. Would I really be held to the same standard, namely an undergrad GPA that is almost ten years old? I have a PhD.

They offer applicants to use an alternate exam score. Holding it against me would be ridiculous.


Because in order to keep their median at 3.8 they have to admit someone at 3.8+ to wash you out.

And they won't get a 3.8 without hurting their LSAT median.

What is your LSAT score?

Plenty of people have a PhD in OrgoChem. They can't all get in.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby kehoema2 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:34 pm

stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?


You can't be serious that you have a PhD if you need to ask this question.

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dextermorgan
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:53 pm

kehoema2 wrote:
stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?


You can't be serious that you have a PhD if you need to ask this question.

I guess they don't teach basic statistics in Chemistry PhD programs that admit sub-3.0 GPA students.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby bdubs » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:04 pm

dextermorgan wrote:
kehoema2 wrote:
stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?


You can't be serious that you have a PhD if you need to ask this question.

I guess they don't teach basic statistics in Chemistry PhD programs that admit sub-3.0 GPA students.


This is a perfectly legitimate question. OP: Once you fall below the school's 25%ile threshold you are no longer influencing a reported GPA statistic. Schools still tend to care about how low they sink in terms of GPA though and tend to only consider people with GPAs below the 25%ile if they bring something good that IS reportable for the school (ie. URM status or high LSAT). They can only let in 25% of people below that threshold before it starts weighing them down, those are pretty coveted spots among super splitters.

Despite the NU policy of allowing GMAT scores those are not reportable to any official organization (ABA, USNWR, etc..). I have a feeling that your LSAT will be required to be reported to the ABA because you have one, so NU would be disadvantaged if your LSAT is below their median (or even 75%ile)

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby PinkCow » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:05 pm

dextermorgan wrote:
kehoema2 wrote:
stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?


You can't be serious that you have a PhD if you need to ask this question.

I guess they don't teach basic statistics in Chemistry PhD programs that admit sub-3.0 GPA students.




ZING!!

But seriously, could this possibly be a flame?

Medians aren't magnets - most people should know how they work, especially an O-Chem guy. More importantly, though, what was your LSAT? <170 good luck.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby thegor1987 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:16 pm

so you have to do the JD/MBA program if you submit a GMAT only.

I think your 6 years as a professor pretty much makes you a lock with their work experience requirement. The biggest thing I think is you are really going to have too present in your application that you are genuine about the JD/MBA program, if they think you are just trying to get in the back door you could get dinged.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby Lawquacious » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:16 pm

.
Last edited by Lawquacious on Sat Jan 01, 2011 6:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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dextermorgan
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby dextermorgan » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:35 pm

thegor1987 wrote:so you have to do the JD/MBA program if you submit a GMAT only.

I think your 6 years as a professor pretty much makes you a lock with their work experience requirement. The biggest thing I think is you are really going to have too present in your application that you are genuine about the JD/MBA program, if they think you are just trying to get in the back door you could get dinged.

Nah. Apparently they started allowing only GMAT in normal JD admissions this year.

09042014
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby 09042014 » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:41 pm

I don't think it's fair to jump on this guy for not understanding statistics, because he was probably implying that the median would only change slightly, if at all, as opposed to a GPA average.

He just doesn't understand how cut throat law admissions are. Schools do all sorts of things that don't really make sense unless you look at it under the light of how to best game USNWR rankings.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby seespotrun » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:43 pm

Desert Fox wrote:I don't think it's fair to jump on this guy for not understanding statistics, because he was probably implying that the median would only change slightly, if at all, as opposed to a GPA average.

He just doesn't understand how cut throat law admissions are. Schools do all sorts of things that don't really make sense unless you look at it under the light of how to best game USNWR rankings.


You get softer with every post, DF.

Good luck, OP. That's a solid GMAT score.

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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby spacepenguin » Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:51 pm

chip3341 wrote:
dextermorgan wrote:
kehoema2 wrote:
stugots26 wrote:How would a low GPA hurt a median?


You can't be serious that you have a PhD if you need to ask this question.

I guess they don't teach basic statistics in Chemistry PhD programs that admit sub-3.0 GPA students.




ZING!!

But seriously, could this possibly be a flame?

Medians aren't magnets - most people should know how they work, especially an O-Chem guy. More importantly, though, what was your LSAT? <170 good luck.



A really low GPA wouldn't hurt the median anymore than one that's just below the median. I think that's what he's getting at.

3.3, 3.7, 4.0 is the exact same median as a 1.0,3.7, 4.0
At least I think that's what he's getting at

stugots26
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Re: PhD Scientist, low undergrad GPA, 750 GMAT NWJD

Postby stugots26 » Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:35 am

I'd like to thank the last few posters for their contributions.

I'd like to wish everyone a HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Look, bottom line - I didn't do well on the LSAT. I saw that Northwestern accepts the GMAT. So I took it, and rocked it. I'm playing to my strengths.

I've been doing the equivalent of office work - in a lab - for six years, while earning my PhD. And now I'm a professor in Chicago. I just don't think that an undergraduate GPA should really factor into the decision, given that Northwestern prides itself on work experience, and I've proven in my case that I've risen above and beyond the undergraduate GPA of NINE YEARS AGO. I'm not a typical law student, and I shouldn't be treated as a typical applicant.

Northwestern doesn't seem like a school that wants to focus on statistics and medians and ratings. They're doing something different already by accepting the GMAT.

Yes, I meant that an outlier like me for an undergraduate GPA wouldn't affect a median like I would an average.

Northwestern knows that I want to study Intellectual Property Law and that I want to make that my career. Why I should still be penalized, at 31, for an undergraduate GPA that was last relevant at 22, is kind of a mystery to myself and anyone who I've discussed my status with.

Like I asked to begin with, what's the normal range for GMAT that Northwestern likes, at least for the JD-MBA program?




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