Does your undergraduate institution matter?

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msh342
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Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby msh342 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:10 am

For example, is a 3.6 from NYU considered better than a 3.6 from a mediocre state school with the same major?

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OGR3
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby OGR3 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:23 am

Eh, the boost is minimal. A 3.7 from said mediocre state school is better than a 3.6 from NYU.

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Rand M.
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby Rand M. » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:28 am

All else equal, undergraduate school's reputation may help to be a tie. The prevailing wisdom says that the only time undergraduate institution is a real factor is when it is one of the very top ivies, MIT or CIT. The only other time it may matter where you went to school is if you are applying to the law school associated with your undergrad. Other than that it does not seem to make a huge difference.

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asfasdagdsfawe
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby asfasdagdsfawe » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:53 am

Rand M. wrote:All else equal, undergraduate school's reputation may help to be a tie. The prevailing wisdom says that the only time undergraduate institution is a real factor is when it is one of the very top ivies, MIT or CIT. The only other time it may matter where you went to school is if you are applying to the law school associated with your undergrad. Other than that it does not seem to make a huge difference.



But look at the class profiles at Harv and Yale. As much as I would like to think it doesn't matter, it seems it does. Of course, it could just be that top undergrads produce more law school applicants with good enough numbers to make HYS. Just seems too disproportional though, especially Yale.

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Rand M.
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby Rand M. » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:04 am

asfasdagdsfawe wrote:
Rand M. wrote:All else equal, undergraduate school's reputation may help to be a tie. The prevailing wisdom says that the only time undergraduate institution is a real factor is when it is one of the very top ivies, MIT or CIT. The only other time it may matter where you went to school is if you are applying to the law school associated with your undergrad. Other than that it does not seem to make a huge difference.



But look at the class profiles at Harv and Yale. As much as I would like to think it doesn't matter, it seems it does. Of course, it could just be that top undergrads produce more law school applicants with good enough numbers to make HYS. Just seems too disproportional though, especially Yale.


It really has a lot more to do with this than it does that they like to admit students from a prestigious undergrad. The people who have traditionally done best on standardized tests are at the most elite institutions and as they continue to do well on standardized tests in the future, they will carry that school's name with them. It is thought that a school like Swarthmore is given an advantage due to their reputation of grade deflation (again, very few schools receive this treatment); it is known that at a school like Swarthmore there are more people scoring highly on the LSAT than there are at a lower ranked college. The top schools just produce more qualified applicants, and that mostly has to do with those people qualifications before they even got to those schools. The top tends to stay at the top.

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:21 am

I think that while in most cases the quality of the UG doesn't make a huge difference, there does seem to be more of a boost sometimes than the minimal amount that TLS often claims it does.

For the very top law schools it does seem like there is a slightly larger effect if somebody attends a top UG institution (and not just say HYP, MIT, etc.). Just from several anecdotal cases it seems like Harvard will grant a greater LSAT leeway to high GPAs from say top 20 UGs and might prefer those types of applicants over similar/ slightly better stat applicants from lower tier universities.

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j.wellington
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby j.wellington » Thu Jan 07, 2010 12:16 pm

A twist to the question at hand: Does applying to your UG's law school give you any kind of edge? I went to a college where the law school is significantly more admired than the undergraduate institution. I didn't apply because my numbers aren't up to par, but I've wondered if being an alum would give me a bit more of a shot than I'd have otherwise.

marshalltucker
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby marshalltucker » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:39 pm

It matters. Despite what many people on here will tell you I really do think it gives you an advantage, not a particularly big one, but like a strong soft maybe.

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acrossthelake
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby acrossthelake » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:48 pm

A friend and I paged through this book they have at Harvard that details the GPA & LSAT scores of all Harvard undergrad alums who have applied to undergrad and where they got in and we could see a boost given to Harvard students for the top law schools. They were able to get in with lower GPAs than one might expect otherwise.

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llawguru
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby llawguru » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:55 pm

I believe it does. Quality of education from a good school as compared to say Strayer University a crap shoot school will have an impact on admissions.

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RVP11
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 9:57 pm

msh342 wrote:For example, is a 3.6 from NYU considered better than a 3.6 from a mediocre state school with the same major?


What's an NYU?

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llawguru
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby llawguru » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:03 pm

JSUVA2012 wrote:
msh342 wrote:For example, is a 3.6 from NYU considered better than a 3.6 from a mediocre state school with the same major?


What's an NYU?


http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/state+NY

Rank #32.

If your trying to be a smartass it backfired, and you can slap yourself for all of us. :roll:

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mallard
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby mallard » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:07 pm

This has got to be one of the best of the recurrent topics. It just keeps delivering.

BenJ
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby BenJ » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:13 pm

95%+ of the time, no. There are a couple of schools (Chicago, most notably) with reputations for preferring Tier 1 undergrad schools, but even then, only slightly. If you do see a trend, it's mainly because SAT/ACT and LSAT correlate reasonably well much of the time, and they determine a lot of UG and law school admissions.

I wouldn't be worried about applying from a lower-tier school. It's unlikely to affect your chances at all.

The stuff about Swarthmore et al. with reputations for resisting grade inflation is probably also true, FWIW. And there's little doubt that most law schools prefer to admit their own undergrads (and all the T14 are connected to Tier 1 undergrads). But all of that acts at the very margins.

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RVP11
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby RVP11 » Thu Jan 07, 2010 10:30 pm

llawguru wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
msh342 wrote:For example, is a 3.6 from NYU considered better than a 3.6 from a mediocre state school with the same major?


What's an NYU?


http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/state+NY

Rank #32.

If your trying to be a smartass it backfired, and you can slap yourself for all of us. :roll:


Wait, I'm confused. So NYU is not a "mediocre state school"?

jacko
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby jacko » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:03 am

JSUVA2012 wrote:
llawguru wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
msh342 wrote:For example, is a 3.6 from NYU considered better than a 3.6 from a mediocre state school with the same major?


What's an NYU?


http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/state+NY

Rank #32.

If your trying to be a smartass it backfired, and you can slap yourself for all of us. :roll:


Wait, I'm confused. So NYU is not a "mediocre state school"?


No, its a mediocre private school

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Nom Sawyer
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Fri Jan 08, 2010 2:15 am

jacko wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
llawguru wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
What's an NYU?


http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/state+NY

Rank #32.

If your trying to be a smartass it backfired, and you can slap yourself for all of us. :roll:


Wait, I'm confused. So NYU is not a "mediocre state school"?


No, its a mediocre private school


Image

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capitalacq
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby capitalacq » Fri Jan 08, 2010 12:06 pm

SolarWind wrote:
jacko wrote:
JSUVA2012 wrote:
llawguru wrote:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/national-universities-rankings/state+NY

Rank #32.

If your trying to be a smartass it backfired, and you can slap yourself for all of us. :roll:


Wait, I'm confused. So NYU is not a "mediocre state school"?


No, its a mediocre private school


Image

rofl


but back to the OP, it does have an influence. With good numbers, a school wont care where you went for UG... but for targets & reaches, I definitely do believe that it plays a role in their evaluation of you

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parker09
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby parker09 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:23 pm

I think it might help more for GPA than LSAT, since GPA differs by UG but LSAT is standardized.

PhofiB
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby PhofiB » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:33 pm

i'm at the top of my class at a T2 undergrad so far... I've got some good softs in the works, and I'm going to really bust my butt studying for the LSAT this summer. The way I see it, the LSAT evens the playing field somewhat.

09042014
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 1:39 pm

PhofiB wrote:i'm at the top of my class at a T2 undergrad so far... I've got some good softs in the works, and I'm going to really bust my butt studying for the LSAT this summer. The way I see it, the LSAT evens the playing field somewhat.


It levels the field almost entirely.

PhofiB
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby PhofiB » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:06 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
PhofiB wrote:i'm at the top of my class at a T2 undergrad so far... I've got some good softs in the works, and I'm going to really bust my butt studying for the LSAT this summer. The way I see it, the LSAT evens the playing field somewhat.


It levels the field almost entirely.



awesome. i like being in control (somewhat) 8)

ariadne86
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby ariadne86 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:19 am

For what it's worth, the law adviser of my undergrad institution (HYP) gives us statistics from previous years of the average gpa and lsat scores of admits to top law programs.

The average GPA and LSAT score for admitted students from my school to Harvard 2 years ago, for example, is 3.79/172. When you plug in these numbers to lsp, the prediction is a 40% chance. For Columbia it's 3.70/171, which gives you a 41% chance on lsp. I guess this means people from my school get a slightly better chance since these are the average stats of admitted students, but am not entirely sure how to read this as I am bad at stats.

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englawyer
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby englawyer » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:52 am

ariadne86 wrote:For what it's worth, the law adviser of my undergrad institution (HYP) gives us statistics from previous years of the average gpa and lsat scores of admits to top law programs.

The average GPA and LSAT score for admitted students from my school to Harvard 2 years ago, for example, is 3.79/172. When you plug in these numbers to lsp, the prediction is a 40% chance. For Columbia it's 3.70/171, which gives you a 41% chance on lsp. I guess this means people from my school get a slightly better chance since these are the average stats of admitted students, but am not entirely sure how to read this as I am bad at stats.


That info seems a strong indication of a boost. Although it is fairly common knowledge HYP = boost..i think the OP is more referring to a private school in the 30's against a TTT state school.

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MC Southstar
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Re: Does your undergraduate institution matter?

Postby MC Southstar » Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:58 am

I have reason to believe my UG probably helped out my cycle.




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