thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:11 pm

pdx1 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Schools below the T14 aren't worth it to attend generally, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever, or have other circumstances. Rankings matter little once you've dropped so low, and region becomes important.


+1 on you being an idiot.


Have fun at whatever school you're attending! :wink: I sure hope I'll be able to make the "big bucks" like you someday!

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SoxyPirate
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby SoxyPirate » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:12 pm

express01 wrote:IMO, in this economy its HYSCCN or bust. If i weren't lucky enough to get into CCN, i would just go to UT Austin and stay in texas forever. :( :?


in today's market
HYS or bust. So says
TLS 0'Ls

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apper123
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby apper123 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:13 pm

LawandOrder wrote:
Mark71121 wrote:
apper123 wrote:Many of the people on this thread, and on this board for that matter, talk about the law industry like biglaw is the only thing that exists. Sure, if you want to practice biglaw and biglaw only, then maybe going to a tier 2 isn't such a great idea. Thankfully, I'd say most people who go to law school don't go with biglaw aspirations. I know I'm not.

I'm going to law school because I want to be a lawyer, not because I want to get rich. If I just wanted to go to grad school to get rich, I'd go to med school.



Paying off $200,000 in loans when you're making $40,000 is never easy regardless of how much you love your job.


I can't imagine it's even possible to pay off $200,000 on $40k/yr. For 30 years at a conservative 4.5% rate, that's still $1520/month.

Figure after tax income on $40 is about $30k or so. And we're talking about spending $18,240 on loans leaving us with $11,000 a year to pay for EVERYTHING else. Just not possible.


Unless you go to a cheaper T2 state school and come out with under 100k in debt. Plus, you know, you get... raises.

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coolkatz321
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby coolkatz321 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:13 pm

Mase85 wrote:Got accepted to Widener, which is a tier 4, its close to my family, rent's not too high, and it will be more affordable. Id like to practice corp law, but that could change once I learn more about it. Delaware ppl boast widener to be great for corp law, but I don't know if that's just a way they cope with the school being tier 4.

However, I have been waitlisted at a T14 and at a tier 2 (77th to be exact) and I'm still waiting on some decisions from a tier 1 and a tier 2...all of these options will definitely be harder to pay for and are a little further from fam/cheap living.

So, tell me if I should stay on the waitlists, go to any tier 1/2 I'm accepted to even if they are lower ranked in 1 & 2, and if Id be foolish to go to the tier4...and if I accept it now as a safety, is it possible to abandon it if a better school removes me from the wait?

Hopefully, I didn't ask a question that people are tired of answering but I would appreciate some input!


What are your numbers? If that T14 is UVA... well, they WL everyone.

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:14 pm

apper123 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
Mark71121 wrote:
apper123 wrote:Many of the people on this thread, and on this board for that matter, talk about the law industry like biglaw is the only thing that exists. Sure, if you want to practice biglaw and biglaw only, then maybe going to a tier 2 isn't such a great idea. Thankfully, I'd say most people who go to law school don't go with biglaw aspirations. I know I'm not.

I'm going to law school because I want to be a lawyer, not because I want to get rich. If I just wanted to go to grad school to get rich, I'd go to med school.



Paying off $200,000 in loans when you're making $40,000 is never easy regardless of how much you love your job.


I can't imagine it's even possible to pay off $200,000 on $40k/yr. For 30 years at a conservative 4.5% rate, that's still $1520/month.

Figure after tax income on $40 is about $30k or so. And we're talking about spending $18,240 on loans leaving us with $11,000 a year to pay for EVERYTHING else. Just not possible.


Unless you go to a cheaper T2 state school and come out with under 100k in debt. Plus, you know, you get... raises.


Yeah okay but I'm not talking about $100,000 in debt. If I was, I'd be evaluating the situation with numbers on $100,000 in debt, not $200k. :roll: +1 on the raises though.

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express01
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby express01 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:16 pm

SoxyPirate wrote:
express01 wrote:IMO, in this economy its HYSCCN or bust. If i weren't lucky enough to get into CCN, i would just go to UT Austin and stay in texas forever. :( :?


in today's market
HYS or bust. So says
TLS 0'Ls


it was a joke by trying to further exaggerate what Law and Order said... but I guess its very hard to tell in the Internet forum.

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SoxyPirate
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby SoxyPirate » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:17 pm

express01 wrote:
SoxyPirate wrote:
express01 wrote:IMO, in this economy its HYSCCN or bust. If i weren't lucky enough to get into CCN, i would just go to UT Austin and stay in texas forever. :( :?


in today's market
HYS or bust. So says
TLS 0'Ls


it was a joke by trying to further exaggerate what Law and Order said... but I guess its very hard to tell in the Internet forum.


It's amazing how thick the sarcasm comes across when you post in Haiku form! ;)

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nightlight
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby nightlight » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:18 pm

LawandOrder wrote:
pdx1 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Schools below the T14 aren't worth it to attend generally, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever, or have other circumstances. Rankings matter little once you've dropped so low, and region becomes important.


+1 on you being an idiot.


Have fun at whatever school you're attending! :wink: I sure hope I'll be able to make the "big bucks" like you someday!

L&O, does acting like a condescending ass give you a sense of power, control, and confidence that you are unable to wield in real life?

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rayiner
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:18 pm

Uh, it's hardly $160k or $40k, and it's not like anybody is forcing you to take $200k in loans.

Say you're an English major at UGA looking at UGA law. Out of school, your prospects are like $35k. Resident COA at UGA is $23k/year. You graduate with $70k, $100k including interest. Tack on another $20k for money you could've saved in the meantime. Total cost = $120k. Now, say you get a $50k/year job in Macon or Savannah or Atlanta. Further assume that you're looking at 4% average annual salary growth. Using those numbers, you'll break even on your 7th year. At this point, you'll be in your early 30s, and still have 30 years of your career ahead of you. Within 10 years, you'll be $60k ahead.

In terms of lifestyle, your take-home income will be about $3000/month. Your loan payment will be $850/month. Rent in a nice place in Buckhead is $1200/month. Say $150 for utilities, $400 for car payment (buy used!), $250 for food, you'll have about $150/month in your pocket. Certainly a bit tight for the first few years (until the car is paid off), but not bad at all!

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:18 pm

nightlight wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
pdx1 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Schools below the T14 aren't worth it to attend generally, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever, or have other circumstances. Rankings matter little once you've dropped so low, and region becomes important.


+1 on you being an idiot.


Have fun at whatever school you're attending! :wink: I sure hope I'll be able to make the "big bucks" like you someday!

L&O, does acting like a condescending ass give you a sense of power, control, and confidence that you are unable to wield in real life?


Just practicing for BigLaw!

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:21 pm

rayiner wrote:Uh, it's hardly $160k or $40k, and it's not like anybody is forcing you to take $200k in loans.

Say you're an English major at UGA looking at UGA law. Out of school, your prospects are like $35k. Resident COA at UGA is $23k/year. You graduate with $70k, $100k including interest. Tack on another $20k for money you could've saved in the meantime. Total cost = $120k. Now, say you get a $50k/year job in Macon or Savannah or Atlanta. Further assume that you're looking at 4% average annual salary growth. Using those numbers, you'll break even on your 7th year. At this point, you'll be in your early 30s, and still have 30 years of your career ahead of you. Within 10 years, you'll be $60k ahead.

In terms of lifestyle, your take-home income will be about $3000/month. Your loan payment will be $850/month. Rent in a nice place in Buckhead is $1200/month. Say $150 for utilities, $400 for car payment (buy used!), $250 for food, you'll have about $150/month in your pocket. Certainly a bit tight for the first few years (until the car is paid off), but not bad at all!



We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"

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SoxyPirate
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby SoxyPirate » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:21 pm

nightlight wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
pdx1 wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:Schools below the T14 aren't worth it to attend generally, even with a full scholarship, unless you plan to live and practice in that area forever, or have other circumstances. Rankings matter little once you've dropped so low, and region becomes important.


+1 on you being an idiot.


Have fun at whatever school you're attending! :wink: I sure hope I'll be able to make the "big bucks" like you someday!

L&O, does acting like a condescending ass give you a sense of power, control, and confidence that you are unable to wield in real life?


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I could use a few inches.
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Cleareyes
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby Cleareyes » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:24 pm

LawandOrder wrote:
We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"


Right. But nobody is suggesting that you go to a TTT. We're talking about OP, whose idea about a decent life might be very different from yours. This doesn't matter, as long as he has realistic expectations.

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SoxyPirate
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby SoxyPirate » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:24 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"


Right. But nobody is suggesting that you go to a TTT. We're talking about OP, whose idea about a decent life might be very different from yours. This doesn't matter, as long as he has realistic expectations.



+1

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:25 pm

Cleareyes wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"


Right. But nobody is suggesting that you go to a TTT. We're talking about OP, whose idea about a decent life might be very different from yours. This doesn't matter, as long as he has realistic expectations.


You're talking about the OP. I wasn't.

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nightlight
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby nightlight » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:26 pm

[quote=]
L&O, does acting like a condescending ass give you a sense of power, control, and confidence that you are unable to wield in real life?[/quote]

Just practicing for BigLaw![/quote]
Okay well try using the same approach in real conversations today and see how far practicing gets you. Good luck!

ps - When that fails, try an attitude readjustment. Then read Getting to Yes and Beyond Reason.


sorry for going off topic, op.

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SoxyPirate
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby SoxyPirate » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:28 pm

LawandOrder wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"


Right. But nobody is suggesting that you go to a TTT. We're talking about OP, whose idea about a decent life might be very different from yours. This doesn't matter, as long as he has realistic expectations.


You're talking about the OP. I wasn't.


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Cleareyes
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby Cleareyes » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:31 pm

LawandOrder wrote:
Cleareyes wrote:
LawandOrder wrote:
We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"


Right. But nobody is suggesting that you go to a TTT. We're talking about OP, whose idea about a decent life might be very different from yours. This doesn't matter, as long as he has realistic expectations.


You're talking about the OP. I wasn't.


Great. Well thanks for answering his post then! It's always nice when you stop into another person's post to tell them that they're proposed lifestyle is beneath you and they should just stop trying. Instead of tips for waiters do you leave little notes saying "You are languishing in poverty?"

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nightlight
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby nightlight » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:33 pm

Cleareyes wrote:Great. Well thanks for answering his post then! It's always nice when you stop into another person's post to tell them that they're proposed lifestyle is beneath you and they should just stop trying. Instead of tips for waiters do you leave little notes saying "You are languishing in poverty?"


You're the best.

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rayiner
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:33 pm

LawandOrder wrote:We have vastly, vastly, different ideas of what constitutues "not bad at all!"


I'm amused by your inability to separate your own feelings from hypothetical circumstances. What I presented was a fairly typical scenario: someone choosing between a cheap Tier1 law degree in their local market and the average white collar jobs available to them given their undergraduate education. The math suggests that most of these people would be well-served by choosing to go to law school.

We understand that you make good money with your UG degree. Congratulations. I would agree that a non-T18 would probably be a bad career move for you. Happy? But you can't overgeneralize your particular circumstance to the average person on this board.
Last edited by rayiner on Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rayiner
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby rayiner » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:34 pm

Cleareyes wrote:Great. Well thanks for answering his post then! It's always nice when you stop into another person's post to tell them that they're proposed lifestyle is beneath you and they should just stop trying. Instead of tips for waiters do you leave little notes saying "You are languishing in poverty?"


+1.

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zettsscores40
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby zettsscores40 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:35 pm

LawandOrder,

Please get something done about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropenis

It's treatable and I think it'll make you a much more enjoyable poster.

Cheers,

Zetts

spidaman1713
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby spidaman1713 » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:36 pm

Where have all you great people been for the last 6 months? Anytime I read anyone asking a question other than about a T14 school people like lawandorder make them and me feel like a complete idiot. Finally someone says it's ok to go to a Tier 2 school without criticism! +10000 to all of you
Best comments I have read since joining TLS

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:37 pm

Cleareyes wrote:Great. Well thanks for answering his post then! It's always nice when you stop into another person's post to tell them that they're proposed lifestyle is beneath you and they should just stop trying. Instead of tips for waiters do you leave little notes saying "You are languishing in poverty?"


Haha no, but I think I may start! Actually I used to be a waiter for a while in undergrad so I tip pretty well. But that would be funny. :lol:

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LawandOrder
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Re: thinking tier 4 when i could wait for tier 1?! help!

Postby LawandOrder » Fri Mar 20, 2009 12:37 pm

zettsscores40 wrote:LawandOrder,

Please get something done about this.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micropenis

It's treatable and I think it'll make you a much more enjoyable poster.

Cheers,

Zetts


Oh I see. You're saying that I have a small penis. And therefore I am wrong. Gotcha.




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