University of Iowa Class of 2016

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basketball law guy
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University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby basketball law guy » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:39 pm

Starting the thread. Anybody applied? Heard anything?

0808millerd
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby 0808millerd » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:42 pm

Applied on October 19 and went complete on October 25. Got the Status Checker and ISIS info but no updates to status for either of them other than "In Progress" and "App Received"

basketball law guy
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby basketball law guy » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:48 pm

Good luck. Submitting mine today or tomorrow. Looking at any other schools? Me- Iowa, Kansas, Wisconsin, Minnesota and maybe a couple different others.

0808millerd
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby 0808millerd » Wed Nov 14, 2012 1:53 pm

Loyola-Chicago, Marquette, Chicago-Kent, Northwestern (ED with a hail mary), Depaul

jamesbrf
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby jamesbrf » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:56 pm

Checking in. My status says "In Review" as of yesterday! Good luck everyone!

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JDndMSW
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby JDndMSW » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:38 am

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Last edited by JDndMSW on Fri Nov 16, 2012 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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michaelm55
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby michaelm55 » Thu Nov 15, 2012 9:25 pm

Checking in. 164, 3.93. Aplication status: "in review"

What are everybody's stats in here?

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typ3
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby typ3 » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:30 pm

Rising 2L able to answer questions.

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michaelm55
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby michaelm55 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:36 pm

Ok tpy3, what is your impression of the University? Are the students there capable of challenging you? What is the word on jobs? And oh yeah, do large numbers of Iowa Law grads work out of state because of it's reach, or because of a lack of local work, or both?

What sort of argument can be made for an overqualied applicant to enroll? Is there anything unique about Iowa Law, somthing that other, higher ranked schools don't offer?

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typ3
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby typ3 » Fri Nov 23, 2012 10:32 pm

michaelm55 wrote:Ok tpy3, what is your impression of the University? Are the students there capable of challenging you? What is the word on jobs? And oh yeah, do large numbers of Iowa Law grads work out of state because of it's reach, or because of a lack of local work, or both?

What sort of argument can be made for an overqualified applicant to enroll? Is there anything unique about Iowa Law, somthing that other, higher ranked schools don't offer?


Define overqualified. I mean I was a 3.6 / 174 applicant and I enrolled. However, I don't think I am "overqualified" everyone who goes to Iowa is qualified and people want and desire different things from law school.

Most people leave Iowa because 50% of the class is not from Iowa. The other 10% leaves the state normally because Iowa has a strong national reputation and therefore people could leave to go to Chicago, St. Louis, Kansas City, etc.

Just speaking from what I know of the legal community as a soon to be 4th generation attorney and with numerous friends who are attorneys, the word on jobs is that the market is completely glutted with lawyers... everywhere, even for graduates of Top-14 schools and for lawyers with established 30 year+ practices. Just do a Google search or open your local telephone directory. On top of this, one lawyer can do more work than ever before thanks to software, the internet, and computers. Search engines and free access to information has eliminated the role of a lot of lawyers out there.

I think one thing people should keep in mind is that law school rank and class rank only matters for your first job. And it really only matters to defense "big law" firms. So, if that is what you are going for I would recommend you do whatever you can to put yourself in the best position so you can bill 2300 hours a year for a corporate overlord- go to a higher ranked school and stay in the top 10/15%.

People from last year's class who did clinic / trial work and are able to hit the ground running for an employer have been able to snag gigs in "shitlaw." However, if you're thinking about coming to Iowa, or any law school for that matter, and think that you are going to make 100k+ for long without hustling and bringing in your own clients you are sorely mistaken.

Because of the sheer number of lawyers out there who are unemployed, you are commodity for corporations, defense firms, employers, and even clients. A lot of my friends in NY/Chi/Minneapolis defense firms have been let loose lately. An attorney I spoke with who was in-house defense counsel for a large insurance company for 20 years with a trial record of 49-0 was let go- the company switched him from salary to a flat fee by case consultant. Simply, they wanted to pay him an equivalence of minimum wage to try their cases. Eventually he couldn't make it and another starving lawyer picked up the slack.

A problem with a lot of law students and lawyers that I notice is that they feel they are entitled to a wage, salary, or whatever simply because of their rank or credentials. The real world frankly doesn't give a shit about law review, who you clerked for or what law review article you wrote. This is probably why the lawyers who I know who make the real money, mid 6 figures to mid 7 figures as plaintiffs graduated near or at the bottom of their class and spend more time talking to random people building a network than they do performing legal work. Like I said, it's all about what sort of lawyer and law you want to practice.

There are solo attorneys in Iowa who make 7 figures doing adoptions and adoption facilitation. There are solo attorneys in Iowa who make 7 figures working as plaintiff personal injury attorneys. There are solo attorneys in Iowa who make 7 figures working as trial attorneys and hired guns. There are quite a few mid/small law lawyers who make between 80-200k. There are a TON of lawyers who make 40-60k, starve, or switch into other careers entirely.

If money motivates you become a plaintiff trial lawyer and learn to hustle like hell and cast a wide net. If you are risk averse and want a pay check and don't mind being bent over or getting on your knees to do the work, do "big law." If you give a shit about people do pro-bono, non-profit work.

Edit: Further Proof School and Class Rank Doesn't matter.. Spence Law Firm employs a Cooley Graduate and I guarantee if he ever makes partner he will make multiples more than the drones in Big-Law will ever make.
http://www.spencelawyers.com/attorneys/ ... noah-drew/

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michaelm55
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby michaelm55 » Sat Nov 24, 2012 4:29 pm

Thank you for the information. I actually really appreciate it. Some of your sharper notes make very good points that seem to stem from your insight as a family member or friend of actual, practicing attorneys (an advantage many applicants, like me, don't have). Admittedly, I am interested in making good money, but my primary hope is to be involved in litigation concerning social policy (think affirmative action, education, ect.).

Noted, the "level" of legal education has limited value as seen in the context of a whole career. I have to admit that your numbers realy surprise me. Why did you decide to attend Iowa?

Pineoneer
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby Pineoneer » Sat Nov 24, 2012 7:45 pm

How many of you actually followed the direct questions in the Iowa PS? Did you rewrite your general one a lot or did you just submit it without much thought to their specific questions.

Pineoneer
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby Pineoneer » Sat Nov 24, 2012 8:47 pm

michaelm55 wrote:Checking in. 164, 3.93. Aplication status: "in review"

What are everybody's stats in here?


Also a 162 and a 3.52

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typ3
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby typ3 » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:13 pm

michaelm55 wrote:Thank you for the information. I actually really appreciate it. Some of your sharper notes make very good points that seem to stem from your insight as a family member or friend of actual, practicing attorneys (an advantage many applicants, like me, don't have). Admittedly, I am interested in making good money, but my primary hope is to be involved in litigation concerning social policy (think affirmative action, education, ect.).

Noted, the "level" of legal education has limited value as seen in the context of a whole career. I have to admit that your numbers realy surprise me. Why did you decide to attend Iowa?


I decided to attend Iowa because I am from a state more rural than Iowa and I plan to return there after I graduate. Where I am from, and I'm sure it is true in all markets not big law, prestige and where you went to school are irrelevant. I picked up a scholarship so decided to attend it over my local state school and looking back on it that was probably a poor decision.

Go to school where you want to practice even if it is lower ranked. It's hard to move to the coasts from Iowa without connections. If you want to end up in the south say in Dallas, go to SMU / Baylor over the higher ranked Iowa, etc. Even though lawyers think clients care about law review, clerkships, etc. clients don't. Clients only care about what your professional reputation is and whether or not they like you and your people skills.

One thing I should let you know is that for most people not doing patent work you often don't get to choose what sort of work you will be doing. Unless you are the rainmaker going out and bringing in clients and the work, you will be doing the whatever work a partner puts on your desk.

If you want to stay in Iowa I would recommend Drake over Iowa unless you plan on doing clinic. Iowa has smart students and smart faculty, but in my opinion they focus too much on the intellectual / academic / theoretical side of things at the expense of practical skills. You will not know how to practice or do a variety of basic associate things after you graduate from Iowa. Some employers in the state (mostly everywhere north / west / and south of DSM) have taken a preference to Drake graduates lately because they can hit the ground running from day one.

Wherever anyone chooses to go, I strongly recommend minimizing your debt load as much as possible.


Regarding litigation about education / social policy, those jobs won't pay you good money. The type of organizations that would litigate these claims are mostly special interest or non-profit groups. You will make 45-60k doing this work.
Last edited by typ3 on Mon Nov 26, 2012 1:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

mwhitley
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby mwhitley » Sun Nov 25, 2012 5:21 pm

in review as of this week

162 3.92

Pineoneer
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby Pineoneer » Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:49 pm

Submitted last night. What happens next am I waiting for an email saying the received my application? How do I check the status?

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michaelm55
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby michaelm55 » Mon Nov 26, 2012 6:52 pm

Thank you for your time and comments typ3. I know you don't have to give them, being a busy law student. I wish you the very best with your career, and a successful semester as well.

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typ3
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby typ3 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:10 am

michaelm55 wrote:Thank you for your time and comments typ3. I know you don't have to give them, being a busy law student. I wish you the very best with your career, and a successful semester as well.


You will learn in law school that grades for some courses can be really random and you can learn an entire semester of laws in 1 day... It really just comes down to how well you write an exam rather than how well you know the material.

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Paraflam
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby Paraflam » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:09 pm

Been in review for a few weeks. 166/3.75

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kingsfield69
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby kingsfield69 » Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:57 pm

Under review for a few weeks now. 164/3.89.

Good luck to all.

nationalphenom
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby nationalphenom » Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:40 pm

typ3 wrote:I decided to attend Iowa because I am from a state more rural than Iowa and I plan to return there after I graduate. Where I am from, and I'm sure it is true in all markets not big law, prestige and where you went to school are irrelevant. I picked up a scholarship so decided to attend it over my local state school and looking back on it that was probably a poor decision.


I'm in a similar situation (Nebraska). But I'm not looking to return. I still think going to Iowa would open up more doors for me...at least into Chicago/St. Louis. No?

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typ3
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby typ3 » Wed Nov 28, 2012 3:07 pm

nationalphenom wrote:
typ3 wrote:I decided to attend Iowa because I am from a state more rural than Iowa and I plan to return there after I graduate. Where I am from, and I'm sure it is true in all markets not big law, prestige and where you went to school are irrelevant. I picked up a scholarship so decided to attend it over my local state school and looking back on it that was probably a poor decision.


I'm in a similar situation (Nebraska). But I'm not looking to return. I still think going to Iowa would open up more doors for me...at least into Chicago/St. Louis. No?


Maybe some. Without ties a lot of markets are hard to break into since the legal market in most places is eat-what-you-kill. Also, you become a larger flight risk if you do not have ties to the area. Chicago is absolutely glutted with attorneys. As is Minneapolis and just about every metro area. Even the rural metros are glutted.

From my experience, the growing cities tend to be more rosy on hiring, Des Moines, Omaha, etc.

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chrisbru
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby chrisbru » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:07 pm

michaelm55 wrote:Ok tpy3, what is your impression of the University? Are the students there capable of challenging you? What is the word on jobs? And oh yeah, do large numbers of Iowa Law grads work out of state because of it's reach, or because of a lack of local work, or both?

What sort of argument can be made for an overqualied applicant to enroll? Is there anything unique about Iowa Law, somthing that other, higher ranked schools don't offer?


Sup, 2L checking in so you have more than one opinion on here... I didn't realize there was a thread for this year yet, must be dropping the ball :D

I really enjoy the university, personally. The student body is mostly awesome, the faculty is great, and the campus and city are both fantastic. Our facilities are a bit outdated, but they get the job done. Our library is great if thats your kind of thing.

The students are definitely capable of challenging you, but it's a pretty relaxed environment in general. Lots of laid-back but very intelligent people at this school, and we still manage to have fun while taking school seriously.

The job market is tough, but not completely bleak. I'm (I think) slightly above median—they only do GPA cutoffs down to to third—and I have a pending job offer in a smallish Iowa town and a callback in Des Moines next week at a mid-size firm. People above me seem to be doing pretty well with the job search even though its still early. OCI is sparse compared to other schools in the region, though, so you'll have to do more footwork on your own. The top 10% all snagged jobs pretty early in the semester from what I have heard. I can't really comment on the bottom half, mostly because I'm not really sure where people rank.

Most grads (70%, I think) practice out of state mostly due to the fact that those people don't have a desire to work in Iowa. If you want to work in Iowa, and you do decently in school, then you will probably be able to find a job here... Plus the employment outlook is getting better each year. If you want to work someplace else, that option is available as well because we have a pretty good reputation—throughout the midwest at least.

If you think you're overqualified (not trying to rag on you, I couldn't think of a better way to put that) then Iowa may not be the place for you. You get more from your school if you go up to the T14 range just because employers simply hire more people from those schools than they do from Iowa (or Indiana, or Minnesota, etc.). I'm glad I'm at Iowa, but it was the third-highest ranked school that I got into if I remember correctly, so its not like I turned down Northwestern or Michigan to come here. Hopefully someone else will pop in that can comment more on that.

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chrisbru
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby chrisbru » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:10 pm

nationalphenom wrote:
typ3 wrote:I decided to attend Iowa because I am from a state more rural than Iowa and I plan to return there after I graduate. Where I am from, and I'm sure it is true in all markets not big law, prestige and where you went to school are irrelevant. I picked up a scholarship so decided to attend it over my local state school and looking back on it that was probably a poor decision.


I'm in a similar situation (Nebraska). But I'm not looking to return. I still think going to Iowa would open up more doors for me...at least into Chicago/St. Louis. No?


What are your options? If you want St. Louis and can get into WUSTL, you should absolutely go there. Same with Northwestern (and possibly even Illinois). The people getting jobs in St. Louis and Chicago are top ten percent, maybe bleeding a little into the higher top third.

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chrisbru
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Re: University of Iowa Class of 2016

Postby chrisbru » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:15 pm

kingsfield69 wrote:Under review for a few weeks now. 164/3.89.

Good luck to all.


Sorry for the consecutive posts, I'm catching up here. I applied in early November, and didn't hear until mid December (171, 2.9 were my stats for full disclosure here). I'm pretty sure Iowa doesn't really start to make decisions until December. Scholarships will be offered to the top candidates within a few weeks of acceptance, and they'll trickle down to the more fringe applicants when they start to turn those down, likely February, March, and April. Iowans get a boost both for admission and for scholarships, since Iowa has a mandatory 50% Iowa resident quota to reach for the law school.

Also, class sizes have been going down. 3L class was 205 or so, ours was 180, and the 1L class is only 160. I'd imagine they don't go much below that, so you're probably looking at a class of 150-170 depending on the strength of applications. Admissions is busting their ass to make sure they maintain medians and hopefully even bring them up a bit with each incoming class, and smaller class sizes is the way to do that in the current market. That's also better for everyone coming in, because the job market is on the rise with less people in your class to compete for those jobs.

Keep in mind that ties have a LOT to do with legal hiring. If you're from Milwaukee and want to work in Des Moines, going to Iowa probably isn't going to help that much and going to Drake would be a better option. That situation generally applies for other smaller markets too, such as Minnesota, Omaha, etc.




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