How binding are LOCI commitments?

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rrc2014
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How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby rrc2014 » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:03 am

If you tell a school in an LOCI that you will attend if admitted, how seriously is this taken? I'm in a position where I have been admitted to a school where I told them I would attend if admitted, but an unexpected offer came up from a different school that I am seriously considering taking. Can/will the school take any action against you if you break the commitment? Anyone dealt with this before?

justhoping
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby justhoping » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:08 am

rrc2014 wrote:If you tell a school in an LOCI that you will attend if admitted, how seriously is this taken? I'm in a position where I have been admitted to a school where I told them I would attend if admitted, but an unexpected offer came up from a different school that I am seriously considering taking. Can/will the school take any action against you if you break the commitment? Anyone dealt with this before?


I don't think it's binding at all... think they'll just call up the next person in line on the waitlist. so be nice and tell them right away you're not coming.
but don't quote me on this, I haven't personally dealt with it

sibley
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby sibley » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:10 am

You should have said "I fully intend to attend if admitted" or something that leaves a little wiggle room. But it's not binding... jut not the best form.

CanadianWolf
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:40 am

"If admitted, I will attend.", should only be used when one is certain because it is taken seriously by law schools probably resulting in an admissions advantage.

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Cupidity
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby Cupidity » Sat Apr 16, 2011 10:57 am

Not-binding, they won't even care if you do not attend. Say whatever you want. Do you know how many schools were my "first choice" that I would "attend if accepted"?

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almightypush
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby almightypush » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:25 am

Cupidity wrote:Not-binding, they won't even care if you do not attend. Say whatever you want. Do you know how many schools were my "first choice" that I would "attend if accepted"?


this. even if you have already sent in your seat deposit, it's still non-binding. ED is the only scenario in where you would be obligated to matriculate following admittance.

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northwood
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby northwood » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:31 am

almightypush wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Not-binding, they won't even care if you do not attend. Say whatever you want. Do you know how many schools were my "first choice" that I would "attend if accepted"?


this. even if you have already sent in your seat deposit, it's still non-binding. ED is the only scenario in where you would be obligated to matriculate following admittance.



Its not binding. You are tyring to sell yourself to the admissions office- just like the admissions office will sell you the school when you are accepted. It may not be the best form to say you will attend if accepted- then not attend if you havent been on the waitlist- but if you were allready placed on the waitlist there are more variables that you have to contend with ( finding an apartment, seat deposit money, etc) that get worse the closer to august you go. People change their minds all of the time, and schools understand that- unless you sign the ED contract where your only options are go to that school, or sit out a cycle and re apply to other school the following year.

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DeeCee
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby DeeCee » Sat Apr 16, 2011 11:56 am

northwood wrote:
almightypush wrote:
Cupidity wrote:Not-binding, they won't even care if you do not attend. Say whatever you want. Do you know how many schools were my "first choice" that I would "attend if accepted"?


this. even if you have already sent in your seat deposit, it's still non-binding. ED is the only scenario in where you would be obligated to matriculate following admittance.



Its not binding. You are tyring to sell yourself to the admissions office- just like the admissions office will sell you the school when you are accepted. It may not be the best form to say you will attend if accepted- then not attend if you havent been on the waitlist- but if you were allready placed on the waitlist there are more variables that you have to contend with ( finding an apartment, seat deposit money, etc) that get worse the closer to august you go. People change their minds all of the time, and schools understand that- unless you sign the ED contract where your only options are go to that school, or sit out a cycle and re apply to other school the following year.


+1, North. I wrote UVA a couple LOCIs telling them I really want to attend and plan on riding the waitlist for awhile. However, my mind has really changed, since I've got an acceptance I'm happy with that will be way less money. As much as I wanted to go there months ago when I wrote the LOCIs, I probably will not attend now, if I were to get off the waitlist, and I pretty much said everything except for a flat out "I promise to attend." Things happen, and if schools can put you in limbo for months in their best interest, you have every right to decline if it is in your best interest to down the road.

The tl;dr version--
It's not binding, but it's better to not make firm promises in LOCIs if you don't intend to keep them, for the sake of professionalism. But action will not be taken against you, so no worries.

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northwood
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby northwood » Sat Apr 16, 2011 12:45 pm

Things change when you are put on a waitlist. Especially if you were accepted at other schools. A LOCI when you are waitlisted is not binding- espeically the closer it gets to the fall. A letter dated inthe winter months when you havent allready put down a seat deposit, found an apartment and started getting ready for the move to the law school is a glimpse of how you felt about the school in the beginning of the process. Once things changed and people start getting ready- schools and administrators understand and know that while they may have been your top choice in january- another school may have jumped above them.

TLDR: Things and rankings change. schools understand that. The only thing i would caution you is to repeat the I will attend if accepted when you write your LOCIS now, unless you are fully committed to packing up and moving whtin a short notice and are okay with losing rent and seat deposit. if thats the case- then I would say re take, and reappply early next cycle and see how it goes ( and if that is your absolute number one- ED). You can always put law school off for a year. Just be sure to be fully happy at whatever school you end up going to.

CanadianWolf
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:27 pm

Whether or not your written offer followed by a law school acceptance is binding depends upon several factors; however, whether binding or not, it is typically not enforced. Situations change & students mature quickly in their early twenties so most, if not all, law schools understand a "change of heart".

lsatextreme
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby lsatextreme » Sat Apr 16, 2011 1:41 pm

lol i wrote that i will definitely attend for several reach schools that i was probably unlikely to get into, not that it would have made a difference honestly.

MyManKanye
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby MyManKanye » Sat Apr 16, 2011 4:10 pm

Its not binding (although all of you people on here who apparently told every school they would attend if accepted kind of bums me out for the morals of law students). If you take the other offer the polite thing to do would be to withdraw from the other wait list. The school would never even have a chance to get upset if you did that.

ljeucla
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby ljeucla » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:39 pm

Do you only write a LOCI if you are waitlisted or can you write a LOCI if you are still waiting to hear a decision from a school?

071816
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby 071816 » Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:45 pm

ljeucla wrote:Do you only write a LOCI if you are waitlisted or can you write a LOCI if you are still waiting to hear a decision from a school?


It's really up to you. If it's a super reach and you have something interesting to add to your file I would just go for it. If not, I would probably just wait. But, again, it really is up to you.

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Gail
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby Gail » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:08 pm

I have a somewhat unique situation that combines a lot of messiness.

Conditions are significantly different for me (PM for details, otherwise assume it is a real issue). A school I wrote to I made it apparent that they were my top, but that was before this happened. I said that I was dedicated to attendance and listed reasons that I would attend. Again before this happened.

I'm not admitted yet. What should I do? If I get in I doubt Ill get enough aid to be able to attend. Should I send them an e-mail intimating that? What if I just withdraw after telling them? Will I need to sit out this year to avoid blacklisting


Kind of worrying. At the time I said it in good faith, but my situation has altered and if I attend anywhere I need tuition to do it for minimal.

Advice? :?

tjddk
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby tjddk » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:16 pm

Gail wrote:I have a somewhat unique situation that combines a lot of messiness.

Conditions are significantly different for me (PM for details, otherwise assume it is a real issue). A school I wrote to I made it apparent that they were my top, but that was before this happened. I said that I was dedicated to attendance and listed reasons that I would attend. Again before this happened.

I'm not admitted yet. What should I do? If I get in I doubt Ill get enough aid to be able to attend. Should I send them an e-mail intimating that? What if I just withdraw after telling them? Will I need to sit out this year to avoid blacklisting


Kind of worrying. At the time I said it in good faith, but my situation has altered and if I attend anywhere I need tuition to do it for minimal.

Advice? :?


Assuming this still wasn't a straight-up ED commitment, I think you're okay and that you should stop worrying. Financial situations (and by that I mean any situation that affects your financial decisions regarding law school) can change unexpectedly and schools won't hold you responsible for that. If anything, it might be something to mention to the top-choice school AFTER you've been admitted, to see what kind of financial aid options they can offer.

In case this helps you not worry as much... For undergraduate admissions, schools that have binding early decision programs often waive the binding policy if financial aid becomes an issue (e.g. student was admitted E.D. but not offered enough financial aid/parental support to attend).

theduffman
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby theduffman » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:21 pm

rrc2014 wrote:If you tell a school in an LOCI that you will attend if admitted, how seriously is this taken? I'm in a position where I have been admitted to a school where I told them I would attend if admitted, but an unexpected offer came up from a different school that I am seriously considering taking. Can/will the school take any action against you if you break the commitment? Anyone dealt with this before?


Just say something along the lines "I write to regretfully inform you I will not be able to follow through with my prior commitment to attend if accepted. Some things in my life have changed since writing that letter, and I have received an offer i had not previously considered. I hope someone deserving is admitting in my place. Thank you for your understanding.

- Dude who promised but ended up not going to your school"

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20130312
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby 20130312 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:24 pm

If they can mislead us with employment statistics, we can mislead them with LOCI's.

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Nelson
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby Nelson » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:30 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:If they can mislead us with employment statistics, we can mislead them with LOCI's.

TITCR

LawperaMan
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby LawperaMan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:59 pm

InGoodFaith wrote:If they can mislead us with employment statistics, we can mislead them with LOCI's.


It is all a game. Wait and see if the LOCI school accepts you, what their offer is, and then make your decision. No need to worry about saving them from hurt feelings.

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Gail
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby Gail » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:39 pm

Thats some what of a relief. No ED though. Fortunately my professors didn't send their LORs in time. Bless their laziness.

I made the letter with good intent. And if I can afford it I still might attend, but there's a medical situation and the surgery and physical therapy alone are going to make it so parents can't contribute much for the foreseeable future.

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unlicensedpotato
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby unlicensedpotato » Wed May 16, 2012 4:03 pm

Sorry all I'm still struggling with this. I wrote UVA an LOCI saying I would attend if admitted. I was admitted but received no scholarship. I placed my deposit and withdrew from my other acceptances. A week later, I was admitted to UT off of the wait list with a significant scholarship. I emailed UVA and explained my situation. They replied with essentially that they would love to have me there in the fall but they understand my desire to commit to Texas and would "most certainly respect whatever decision [I] chose to make" I realize I am in an ethical gray area at best and sincerely regret saying it. That being said, does their response indicate they won't pursue any action against me if I withdraw? Any thoughts on this are appreciated.

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stillwater
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby stillwater » Wed May 16, 2012 4:05 pm

unlicensedpotato wrote:Sorry all I'm still struggling with this. I wrote UVA an LOCI saying I would attend if admitted. I was admitted but received no scholarship. I placed my deposit and withdrew from my other acceptances. A week later, I was admitted to UT off of the wait list with a significant scholarship. I emailed UVA and explained my situation. They replied with essentially that they would love to have me there in the fall but they understand my desire to commit to Texas and would "most certainly respect whatever decision [I] chose to make" I realize I am in an ethical gray area at best and sincerely regret saying it. That being said, does their response indicate they won't pursue any action against me if I withdraw? Any thoughts on this are appreciated.


It is not binding. Circumstances change. Only ED contracts are binding. Law Schools aren't exactly honest either.

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northwood
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby northwood » Wed May 16, 2012 4:40 pm

go where you want to go. as the poster above me stated: only ED applications are binding

gravityrides0
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Re: How binding are LOCI commitments?

Postby gravityrides0 » Wed May 16, 2012 5:20 pm

I was in a messy situation where I used strong language in a LOCI and didn't end up depositing at the school. I felt awfully guilty at first because the person who admitted me actually guilt tripped me when I withdrew, which I found to be really unprofessional. but... Umm you guys waitlisted me, so I am obviously already your sloppy seconds anyway.

Of course you're going to use strong language to get off of waitlists. If you say "If admitted, I may consider attending" do you really think they'll give you a second look? If they're not making you sign anything binding or making you withdraw from other schools, I think it's fine to go against the sentiments expressed in your LOCI. Think of it this way. You were already inconvenienced by being waitlisted, you're faced with a really difficult and significant decision to give a school up to $175,000, and you probably already paid about $100 just to apply and sit on a WL... you are playing the same game that they are, to find your best fit. It's a big decision for you, and it's ok to be self-interested. bottom line is, there are certain times when it's inappropriate to say you're committing to something and then back out. this is not one of them. sorry I'm not sorry...




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