Case Western Reserve University School of Law 2011 Forum

[wileyman02]

My understanding about the interviews was that if you skipped it, you got dinged. I really dont understand this though, the interview was a joke. Mine lasted 5 minutes and I was only asked two questions.

"Why are you considering Case?"
"Do you have any questions?"

Bport, my sworn enemy--was whether or not CASE was its own legal market, i.e. does it compete with other schools for the Cleveland market. A few of us said yes, it was its own market, and Bport countered with OSU. OSU though is Central Ohio. Obviously it has a stronghold on Columbus, and beyond that it has Cleveland AND Cincinnati as far as major cities in the state go. I don't think of OSU as a school of the Cleveland market. It would be like saying Pitt Law isn't its own market because of Penn State, and that's not really true.

Werent we instructed to drop this?

We were instructed to stop acting like a couple of dildos, not to cease communication in the form of a civil debate or discussion. In no was my last post intended to be antagonistic. I was just seeking Ersatz's opinion on the conversation about Case's legal market.

[IHaveLawyers]

Just wanted to know if anyone from the WL had heard anything. I think the last deposit deadline was the 15th. Reading through last years thread, I think there will be some admits closer to the end of the month.

[hds2388]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

[dstr15]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

Cool thanks, I have a few. What are some good places to eat around campus? How were 1L professors? And what common mistakes do 1Ls make that we should avoid?

[kristyk]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

I haven't found housing yet and probably won't be able to get out to Cleveland for another few weeks. In your experience or from talking to others in your class, do you think I'm somewhat screwing myself, or is there still enough time to find housing?

Thanks!

[DorothyV]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

I have a few questions as well.

-What is the best place to get a parking permit? The Botanical Gardens or one of the lots on campus?

-Are there any special things we should do (besides getting good grades) in order to get a leg up on securing summer internships / jobs after the 1L year? (For example: joining certain clubs, getting to know specific professors, etc?)

Thanks!

[hds2388]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

Cool thanks, I have a few. What are some good places to eat around campus? How were 1L professors? And what common mistakes do 1Ls make that we should avoid?

1. Around campus (within a 10 minute walk) there are not a ton of great places to eat. There are two nearby starbucks, another cafe/sandwich shop, a fast-food pizza place (rascal house), a qdoba, a chinese food place, the student union restaraunt and a falafel place. In my opinion none of these are tremendous options. I will say there is an indian place (indian flame I think) that is terrific; its east on euclid from the law school. its about a 5-10 minute walk. The best places to get food nearby are in little italy (lots of italian places and presti's, a delicious italian cafe bakery). On coventry there are tons of eating options: this is the best place. I recommend tommy's for breakfast.

2. My 1L professors were great. Youll obviously get divided into sections, and so I can really only speak about my own professors, but as far as the barristers professors (there are three sections: advocates, barristers and counselors -- witty huh?), they were wonderful.

3. I could spend hours telling you what mistakes to avoid. I think that most of the "how to succeed in law school" threads on TLS give good advice. Briefly though, make sure you know what law school is like before you get there (I'd recommend reading One L or some other law schoolish material...not necessarily for accuracy, but just to realize that there is a lot of work to be put in once you get here). I would say the students who were the most successful hit the ground running because they knew what to expect. Finally, make sure you know how to write a law exam (read getting to maybe, do LEEWS or go to the Academic Enrichment Program put on by the school).

[hds2388]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

I haven't found housing yet and probably won't be able to get out to Cleveland for another few weeks. In your experience or from talking to others in your class, do you think I'm somewhat screwing myself, or is there still enough time to find housing?

Thanks!

I got a place very early on, which was great, but no, you're not screwing yourself. The area around the law school has a tremendous number of apartment buildings. Many of these will still have openings come the start of school. Your selection may be a touch limited compared to what's available now, but you'll be fine. I know a couple of students who, for several different reasons, needed to move mid semester and were able to find places.

[hds2388]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

I have a few questions as well.

-What is the best place to get a parking permit? The Botanical Gardens or one of the lots on campus?

-Are there any special things we should do (besides getting good grades) in order to get a leg up on securing summer internships / jobs after the 1L year? (For example: joining certain clubs, getting to know specific professors, etc?)

Thanks!

1. I park in severence which is expensive but close, clean and easy. Its a little more expensive than botanical gardens. I know a couple people who parked in botanical gardens (which is closer, just as clean). However, that lot closes at 11, so if you are at school late, you have to leave to park your car on the street; this was enough to make one of my friends change lots. However, if you study at home and never plan on staying late, then its not a big deal and botanical gardens is probably a better deal.
2. As far as summer employment, I would say, other than getting good grades, just make sure you start applying places before you get your grades and further, as soon as they come in. Most everyone gets a job (I dont know anyone who didnt). But other than that, I can't really think of much. If you want to know about a specific employer/type of employer, I can help more if you have specific questions.

[Ersatz Haderach]

If anyone has real questions about the school or cleveland, I will happily answer them. I just finished my 1L year.

Cool thanks, I have a few. What are some good places to eat around campus? How were 1L professors? And what common mistakes do 1Ls make that we should avoid?

There's a dearth of places to eat right by the school, unfortunately, unless you're a big fan of Qdoba or awful takeout Chinese. Consider packing your lunch or just getting the huge amount of free food that is given out at events during the week. Some people like the sandwich place inside the school, others despise it. I think it's fine.

Don't treat your law exams like your undergrad exams. I told myself I wouldn't do this, read books to prepare, and did it anyway. Walked out of most exams feeling pretty good; results were mediocre. Depressing, really, but you need to learn to speed-type as many IRAC patterns as you possibly can, even for professors who claim that they want a good, in-depth discussion of the issues. I think I actually suffered by taking my exams too seriously and treating them as a writing assignment more than a regurgitation of my outlines. This varies from professor to professor a bit, though. Law school is likely the first time you'll encounter a situation where you can enjoy the class, know the material, be able to discuss it on the fly, and then get out-written on the exam anyway. You need to not only be ready, but be MORE than ready. That's the whole game.

I like Arrow's guide to 1L, it's linked somewhere in the 'articles about law school by law students'. Wish I'd followed it more religiously.

[DorothyV]

Thanks hds2388!

[hds2388]

Thanks hds2388!

you're welcome; let me know if you have any other questions.

[dstr15]

Thanks guys

[snowpeach06]

I wanna answer things too!

Cool thanks, I have a few. What are some good places to eat around campus? How were 1L professors? And what common mistakes do 1Ls make that we should avoid?

1. For lunch... around campus isn't super. Apparently we'll have a smoothie chain that is pretty good by next year. And a Denny's all-nigher (which also doesn't sound great to me). Slightly further off campus has WAY better food. And I've tried most places, so, I'd be more of a help there. The Barking Spider is this sort of cool, cheap dive bar right across the street.
2. Some are great, some are boring as hell. Same as any school. Like the kid above me said, it depends on your section. If you guys let me know what section your in, I can relate what I know.
3. Most 1L's, in my opinion didn't take enough advantage of AEP. AEP is this tutoring thing, that tells you exactly how to take an exam, and they give you outlines from the top people of each class. Helped me so much. Also, take practice exams, and READ OLD PRACTICE EXAMS from your teachers, so you get a sense of what to do. Do that, and it's hard not to get at least a b+. Supplements are helpful too.

I haven't found housing yet and probably won't be able to get out to Cleveland for another few weeks. In your experience or from talking to others in your class, do you think I'm somewhat screwing myself, or is there still enough time to find housing?

Thanks!

You'll be fine. Especially if you are looking for a roommate, lots of people are still looking up until late July and August. A lot of leases are up in July though, so that is one of the best times to look.

I have a few questions as well.

-What is the best place to get a parking permit? The Botanical Gardens or one of the lots on campus?

-Are there any special things we should do (besides getting good grades) in order to get a leg up on securing summer internships / jobs after the 1L year? (For example: joining certain clubs, getting to know specific professors, etc?)

Thanks!

1. Advantages to parking in a Case lot: After hours, you can park in certain lots for free, like the lot behind Veal (the gym). And there are no time limits. The botanical gardens is closer, but they close at 11, and if for some reason your car is there past then, then it's stuck. That said, I'm parking in the botanical gardens this year. No matter where you park, buy your pass ASAP, because they do sell out and you'll wind up having to park somewhere shitty if you wait too long.
2. I got my job because of a professor. So getting to know them doesn't hurt. But mainly, it's about applying, and making sure to write tailored cover letters. Everyone says its about grades, but, that isn't 100% sure in things that aren't biglaw. I know people with extremely mediocre to bad grades who have pretty cool internships. One is working for the Attorney General, one the patent office, a few have fairly decent paying mid-law jobs. Apply to lots of places, it increases your changes. Employers also seemed to like the fact that I did some volunteer work. The 3R's program. It's a great program where you teach disadvantaged inner city kids about the constitution. I'd recommend it. You feel surprisingly fulfilled after helping these kids.

[IHaveLawyers]

I asked this a couple od days ago without a response; Is anyone still on the wait list?

[DorothyV]

Thanks snowpeach!

I am going to call the Botanical Gardens on Monday, and your advice on AEP and the exams looks really helpful.

[snowpeach06]

Thanks snowpeach!

I am going to call the Botanical Gardens on Monday, and your advice on AEP and the exams looks really helpful.

I've decided it's my goal to have a mentee, so, I can't give crappy advice. haha.

[hds2388]

Thanks snowpeach!

I am going to call the Botanical Gardens on Monday, and your advice on AEP and the exams looks really helpful.

I've decided it's my goal to have a mentee, so, I can't give crappy advice. haha.

Not that I know you, but given we apparently go to the same law school, have you considered being an AEP person to accomplish said goal?

[snowpeach06]

Thanks snowpeach!

I am going to call the Botanical Gardens on Monday, and your advice on AEP and the exams looks really helpful.

I've decided it's my goal to have a mentee, so, I can't give crappy advice. haha.

Not that I know you, but given we apparently go to the same law school, have you considered being an AEP person to accomplish said goal?

My grades probably weren't high enough, and I have no patience.

[Ersatz Haderach]

Here's a quick breakdown of what 2Ls will find at OCI in a couple months:

Breakdown: Total: 44

Federal Government: 2
City/State Gov’t: 12
NLJ 250: 10
V100: 4
Other Firms: 20


Most of the ‘other’ are Cleveland/Ohio firms. There are a few scattered around the country, alumni connections maybe, I don’t know. The new dean really will have his work cut out getting the old guard alumni to start hiring us again. I know for a fact there are firms in Cleveland not represented here that hire people regularly, particularly in specialty practices like immigration. But, the overall summary shouldn’t be surprising: OCI is marginally better than it was the last year or two, when it was positively awful (so I hear).

Notable: Squire Sanders is still not participating in OCI. They are taking resumes, but that may just to remind people that they have 200+ lawyers squirreled away downtown. They hired at least one SA last year, other than that I have no idea what they’re doing, but it’s awfully disappointing to see the second biggest firm in town going silent for the last 3 years. Baker Hostetler has multiple offices interviewing, and Jones Day, always the brass ring and still hiring people in its old home, will be there as well. Nearly all mid-sized Cleveland firms will be there. Tucker Ellis & West, a large local law firm, is not even taking resumes, after being rated the best place to work in the entire state. Neither is Thompson Hine, another good and large local firm. Sad face.

So, I don't know how encouraging that is, but that's the state of OCI at Case. Odds are there will be a few additions, but not too many. Honestly, it's better than I thought it would be.

[snowpeach06]

Here's a quick breakdown of what 2Ls will find at OCI in a couple months:

Breakdown: Total: 44

Federal Government: 2
City/State Gov’t: 12
NLJ 250: 10
V100: 4
Other Firms: 20


Most of the ‘other’ are Cleveland/Ohio firms. There are a few scattered around the country, alumni connections maybe, I don’t know. The new dean really will have his work cut out getting the old guard alumni to start hiring us again. I know for a fact there are firms in Cleveland not represented here that hire people regularly, particularly in specialty practices like immigration. But, the overall summary shouldn’t be surprising: OCI is marginally better than it was the last year or two, when it was positively awful (so I hear).

Notable: Squire Sanders is still not participating in OCI. They are taking resumes, but that may just to remind people that they have 200+ lawyers squirreled away downtown. They hired at least one SA last year, other than that I have no idea what they’re doing, but it’s awfully disappointing to see the second biggest firm in town going silent for the last 3 years. Baker Hostetler has multiple offices interviewing, and Jones Day, always the brass ring and still hiring people in its old home, will be there as well. Nearly all mid-sized Cleveland firms will be there. Tucker Ellis & West, a large local law firm, is not even taking resumes, after being rated the best place to work in the entire state. Neither is Thompson Hine, another good and large local firm. Sad face.

So, I don't know how encouraging that is, but that's the state of OCI at Case. Odds are there will be a few additions, but not too many. Honestly, it's better than I thought it would be.

I decided I wanted to work in DC and/or for the government. I don't even think I'm going to bother with OCI this time around.

[Ersatz Haderach]

I'm going to go, but I'm aware that I'll likely only get a couple of interviews and no callbacks. I think my odds of getting a job are better if I just hang out at the bars on E. 4th street and talk shit with bored associates.

[ravkhinda]

Here's a quick breakdown of what 2Ls will find at OCI in a couple months:

Breakdown: Total: 44

Federal Government: 2
City/State Gov’t: 12
NLJ 250: 10
V100: 4
Other Firms: 20


Most of the ‘other’ are Cleveland/Ohio firms. There are a few scattered around the country, alumni connections maybe, I don’t know. The new dean really will have his work cut out getting the old guard alumni to start hiring us again. I know for a fact there are firms in Cleveland not represented here that hire people regularly, particularly in specialty practices like immigration. But, the overall summary shouldn’t be surprising: OCI is marginally better than it was the last year or two, when it was positively awful (so I hear).

Notable: Squire Sanders is still not participating in OCI. They are taking resumes, but that may just to remind people that they have 200+ lawyers squirreled away downtown. They hired at least one SA last year, other than that I have no idea what they’re doing, but it’s awfully disappointing to see the second biggest firm in town going silent for the last 3 years. Baker Hostetler has multiple offices interviewing, and Jones Day, always the brass ring and still hiring people in its old home, will be there as well. Nearly all mid-sized Cleveland firms will be there. Tucker Ellis & West, a large local law firm, is not even taking resumes, after being rated the best place to work in the entire state. Neither is Thompson Hine, another good and large local firm. Sad face.

So, I don't know how encouraging that is, but that's the state of OCI at Case. Odds are there will be a few additions, but not too many. Honestly, it's better than I thought it would be.

That was really good info. Do you think OCI is better for 1L? and about how many students find employment through OCI? Thanks!

[Ersatz Haderach]

^^ 1L OCI, "Spring OCI", is kind of a joke everywhere, and that certainly includes here. That said, I know some people who got jobs through it, including paid ones (mostly in specialty fields like IP, minority clerkships at firms, etc.) There is an interview program but there aren't many participants. The best jobs available through it are with local companies and a few firms. Most larger firms don't hire 1Ls unless they're placed through the CMBA (cleveland bar) and most of those are minority/diversity positions.

There are three avenues for summer jobs as a 1L that I know anything about. Spring OCI, Federal Court Externships, and International Law. Court externs number about 20-25, plus some 2Ls. International Law people about 15. OCI, I really don't know, but definitely 20+. In addition, there is a summer study abroad program that is sort of I-law focused.

There are also smaller programs such as the State AG, City of Cleveland/Cuyahoga County government internships and of course RA positions. Many 1Ls went back home for the summer and are doing something in small law or local government in their hometowns.

I don't know how many 1Ls are doing non-law or nothing over the summer. Not many. Everyone I know, without exception, has a law internship with real work. A few people are getting paid. But a bad 1L job crop is really something more notable for being bad than good; what happens next year will be more significant, especially since we're an unusually large class for CWRU.

Very curious to see the size of the incoming class, esp. with all the 'waitlist/reject/admit' kerfluffle.

[singingkris]

^^ 1L OCI, "Spring OCI", is kind of a joke everywhere, and that certainly includes here. That said, I know some people who got jobs through it, including paid ones (mostly in specialty fields like IP, minority clerkships at firms, etc.) There is an interview program but there aren't many participants. The best jobs available through it are with local companies and a few firms. Most larger firms don't hire 1Ls unless they're placed through the CMBA (cleveland bar) and most of those are minority/diversity positions.

There are three avenues for summer jobs as a 1L that I know anything about. Spring OCI, Federal Court Externships, and International Law. Court externs number about 20-25, plus some 2Ls. International Law people about 15. OCI, I really don't know, but definitely 20+. In addition, there is a summer study abroad program that is sort of I-law focused.

There are also smaller programs such as the State AG, City of Cleveland/Cuyahoga County government internships and of course RA positions. Many 1Ls went back home for the summer and are doing something in small law or local government in their hometowns.

I don't know how many 1Ls are doing non-law or nothing over the summer. Not many. Everyone I know, without exception, has a law internship with real work. A few people are getting paid. But a bad 1L job crop is really something more notable for being bad than good; what happens next year will be more significant, especially since we're an unusually large class for CWRU.

Very curious to see the size of the incoming class, esp. with all the 'waitlist/reject/admit' kerfluffle.

How large was your class? Is the average size of the incoming class about 200?