Texas Tech v South Texas

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longhornmarine
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Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby longhornmarine » Wed May 05, 2010 10:53 pm

I know Texas Tech is a better school, but its in Lubbock, and at ST I would have to hedge my bets on graduating in the top 5%, still advice? Which school should I go to and why? Id like to practice law in Houston/Dallas/Austin

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Grad_Student
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Grad_Student » Wed May 05, 2010 11:15 pm

Tech will take you in Dallas
STCL will keep you in Houston
No one gets jobs in Austin

longhornmarine
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby longhornmarine » Wed May 05, 2010 11:24 pm

Can I not get a job in Houston with Tech? Is there an advantage of ST over Tech?

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Grad_Student
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Grad_Student » Thu May 06, 2010 12:37 pm

longhornmarine wrote:Can I not get a job in Houston with Tech? Is there an advantage of ST over Tech?

Tech and South Texas are on par with each other in this state. Can you get a job in Houston? For sure but you'll have to work harder than you would if you were a STCL kid. A lot of the atty's in Houston either went to UH or STCL and they like to hire from their own schools.

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merichard87
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby merichard87 » Thu May 06, 2010 12:43 pm

Grad_Student is giving sound advice. I'm considering STCL but the one thing that gives me pause is the high amount of non-traditional students with extensive work histories. As someone only taking a year off between UG and LS I would be at a disadvantage when competing with those who have more experience. Also, STCL is pretty expensive for its ranking so its alot to consider.

P.S. (Tech is not even a thought since I know I want to come back to Houston)

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grrrstick
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby grrrstick » Thu May 06, 2010 12:49 pm

Depending on your background, there are some people in O&G law departments in Houston and Dallas from Tech. Most of them have subsurface engineering or geophysics backgrounds and are happy spending the first few years of their careers in Odessa or Amarillo though doing compliance type work.

STCL has a good reputation in Houston, and there are a ton of networking opportunities with the alumni in town.

As others have pointed out, Austin is hard to get into without a degree from UT or political connections to land you a job in a lobbying firm or something similar.

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Grad_Student
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Grad_Student » Thu May 06, 2010 2:49 pm

I'll say that my decision came down to between STCL and Tech and I'm glad I chose STCL.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 2:50 pm

Why is it assumed that Texas Tech is a better school than ST?

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0 and 16
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby 0 and 16 » Thu May 06, 2010 2:58 pm

Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 3:09 pm

0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


Considering STCL has an entering class size of about 400, and a very high attrition rate, how do they gain the extra 200-300 students/class to get to 600?

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 3:13 pm

0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


And can you post those rankings?

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0 and 16
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby 0 and 16 » Thu May 06, 2010 3:17 pm

jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


Considering STCL has an entering class size of about 400, and a very high attrition rate, how do they gain the extra 200-300 students/class to get to 600?


According to the data on LSN, the entering class is 689 (both part and full time). 1L attrition rate is 6.6%. If 6.6% dropout after 1L that's 670 and if another 6.6% dropout that leaves 626 for the graduating class. This data is from 2006 but unless they drastically reduced the size of their class, my numbers were accurate, if not a little generous.

http://southtexas.lawschoolnumbers.com/

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu May 06, 2010 3:17 pm

jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


And can you post those rankings?


Did you really ask someone to post the US News rankings on TLS?

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0 and 16
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby 0 and 16 » Thu May 06, 2010 3:18 pm

jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


And can you post those rankings?


It's common knowlege that Tech is T3 and STCL is T4.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 3:23 pm

0 and 16 wrote:
jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


Considering STCL has an entering class size of about 400, and a very high attrition rate, how do they gain the extra 200-300 students/class to get to 600?


According to the data on LSN, the entering class is 689 (both part and full time). 1L attrition rate is 6.6%. If 6.6% dropout after 1L that's 670 and if another 6.6% dropout that leaves 626 for the graduating class. This data is from 2006 but unless they drastically reduced the size of their class, my numbers were accurate, if not a little generous.

http://southtexas.lawschoolnumbers.com/


http://law.baylor.edu/News/other/2009/d ... 091014.htm

Here's an article from Baylor about the decreasing sizes of law schools. They state that the entering class of 2009 at South Texas had 350 students. Additionally, Here is TLS's profile of ST that states that their entering class size was 410 in 2008.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/south-te ... f-law.html

Looks like LSN made a mistake. Also, Even if that 626 # from LSN was accurate, the number of full time students in the school is below 1000 (per LSN), so this would mean that there were about 175 2l and 3ls.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 3:25 pm

0 and 16 wrote:
jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


And can you post those rankings?


It's common knowlege that Tech is T3 and STCL is T4.


IMO, after you get out of T1, it doesn't make much of a difference. ST is probably the better school with regard to placement because of its strong pull in Houston; so IMO I give the nod to ST over Tech because of placement options. AND ST is ranked in the top 5 for trial advocacy.

DarkPhantom
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby DarkPhantom » Thu May 06, 2010 3:28 pm

A friend of mine graduating this year transfered from South Texas to UH, not sure if she has a job yet or not though.

Another graduated from South Texas, and had an internship while in school. Working at the firm right now.

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0 and 16
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby 0 and 16 » Thu May 06, 2010 3:48 pm

jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:
jgrin wrote:
0 and 16 wrote:Ranking would be my guess. Also, Tech has a smaller graduating class (think less than 200) while STCL is around 600. I've found myself reiterating this point on TLS but the Houston legal market can only absorb so many grads per year. For this reason, I think your class ranking at STCL is much more important coming out of law school.


Considering STCL has an entering class size of about 400, and a very high attrition rate, how do they gain the extra 200-300 students/class to get to 600?


According to the data on LSN, the entering class is 689 (both part and full time). 1L attrition rate is 6.6%. If 6.6% dropout after 1L that's 670 and if another 6.6% dropout that leaves 626 for the graduating class. This data is from 2006 but unless they drastically reduced the size of their class, my numbers were accurate, if not a little generous.

http://southtexas.lawschoolnumbers.com/


http://law.baylor.edu/News/other/2009/d ... 091014.htm

Here's an article from Baylor about the decreasing sizes of law schools. They state that the entering class of 2009 at South Texas had 350 students. Additionally, Here is TLS's profile of ST that states that their entering class size was 410 in 2008.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/south-te ... f-law.html

Looks like LSN made a mistake. Also, Even if that 626 # from LSN was accurate, the number of full time students in the school is below 1000 (per LSN), so this would mean that there were about 175 2l and 3ls.


official number is 444.

http://www.stcl.edu/admissions/student_profile.html

it's not cooley bad but you seem to have your mind up anyway, so fuck it.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby Stringer Bell » Thu May 06, 2010 3:52 pm

jgrin wrote:IMO, after you get out of T1, it doesn't make much of a difference. ST is probably the better school with regard to placement because of its strong pull in Houston; so IMO I give the nod to ST over Tech because of placement options. AND ST is ranked in the top 5 for trial advocacy.


So you are dismissing US News rankings after a certain point, but you are validating their specialty rankings?

For the record, I don't have a dog in this. Both schools are probably pretty comparable. TT has the advantage of much cheaper tuition and COL. STCL has the advantage of being located in a major market, thus likely making networking easier. ITE you are likely going to have to network like crazy or do really academically to get a decent job from either school.

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 3:53 pm

0 and 16 wrote:

official number is 444.

http://www.stcl.edu/admissions/student_profile.html

it's not cooley bad but you seem to have your mind up anyway, so fuck it.


I would assume that is probably for FT and PT. You don't have to get upset because you were wrong about 600 grads...

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 3:54 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:
jgrin wrote:IMO, after you get out of T1, it doesn't make much of a difference. ST is probably the better school with regard to placement because of its strong pull in Houston; so IMO I give the nod to ST over Tech because of placement options. AND ST is ranked in the top 5 for trial advocacy.


So you are dismissing US News rankings after a certain point, but you are validating their specialty rankings?

For the record, I don't have a dog in this. Both schools are probably pretty comparable. TT has the advantage of much cheaper tuition and COL. STCL has the advantage of being located in a major market, thus likely making networking easier. ITE you are likely going to have to network like crazy or do really academically to get a decent job from either school.


Agreed. and yes, after it gets to a certain point, the ranking can be disregarded. Does it really matter if you are 344 or 347? NO. Both are very far from the top.

DISCLAIMER: I am not saying that this is where they are actually ranked. I am just using it as an example that they both are very far from the top.
Last edited by jgrin on Thu May 06, 2010 3:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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merichard87
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby merichard87 » Thu May 06, 2010 3:56 pm

If you want to work in Houston its just not a bright idea to go to Tech and expect to have the same opportunities as someone who went to STCL, UofH, UT or SMU. I would try to get to Houston from SMU before I tried from Tech.

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b.gump81
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby b.gump81 » Thu May 06, 2010 4:54 pm

OP, if you want to end up in or around Houston, go to South Texas. It has placement in Houston biglaw and tons of employment opportunities in the surrounding areas. Now, for biglaw you would have to be top of your class at STCL, but the same would go for Tech. To me the difference just comes down to where you want to live after graduation. Yes, Tech can place in Houston (I actually have a good friend that graduated 08, was law review, and landed a biglaw employment law job in houston), but it would be a lot easier at STCL. However, if you also want to live in Dallas, like you said, or anywhere else but Houston for that matter, I would give Tech a serious look. They are going to be cheaper (I personally think the debt to income ratio should be the biggest factor ITE) and actually has just as good a reputation for litigation (not ranked yet, but look at this year's competitions....Tech has beat everyone from the state and placed several teams in national competitions).

Also in my experience, STCL is very stingy with scholarship money. I was above 75% for both gpa and lsat, and I only got 12,000 a year with a pretty steep gpa stipulation.

As a disclaimer, I got my infomation about the trial advocacy competitions from Tech law website, but it can be found in other less bias sources.

jgrin wrote:I would assume that is probably for FT and PT. You don't have to get upset because you were wrong about 600 grads...


don't get upset because you got waitlisted at Tech

Stringer Bell wrote:For the record, I don't have a dog in this. Both schools are probably pretty comparable. TT has the advantage of much cheaper tuition and COL. STCL has the advantage of being located in a major market, thus likely making networking easier. ITE you are likely going to have to network like crazy or do really academically to get a decent job from either school.

TITCR...but i would again add that i personally would much rather have little debt at graduation so i can network for the job i want and not have to be forced into networking for biglaw so I can pay off my $100,000 in debt

jgrin
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby jgrin » Thu May 06, 2010 5:40 pm

b.gump81 wrote:OP, if you want to end up in or around Houston, go to South Texas. It has placement in Houston biglaw and tons of employment opportunities in the surrounding areas. Now, for biglaw you would have to be top of your class at STCL, but the same would go for Tech. To me the difference just comes down to where you want to live after graduation. Yes, Tech can place in Houston (I actually have a good friend that graduated 08, was law review, and landed a biglaw employment law job in houston), but it would be a lot easier at STCL. However, if you also want to live in Dallas, like you said, or anywhere else but Houston for that matter, I would give Tech a serious look. They are going to be cheaper (I personally think the debt to income ratio should be the biggest factor ITE) and actually has just as good a reputation for litigation (not ranked yet, but look at this year's competitions....Tech has beat everyone from the state and placed several teams in national competitions).

Also in my experience, STCL is very stingy with scholarship money. I was above 75% for both gpa and lsat, and I only got 12,000 a year with a pretty steep gpa stipulation.

As a disclaimer, I got my infomation about the trial advocacy competitions from Tech law website, but it can be found in other less bias sources.

jgrin wrote:I would assume that is probably for FT and PT. You don't have to get upset because you were wrong about 600 grads...


don't get upset because you got waitlisted at Tech

Stringer Bell wrote:For the record, I don't have a dog in this. Both schools are probably pretty comparable. TT has the advantage of much cheaper tuition and COL. STCL has the advantage of being located in a major market, thus likely making networking easier. ITE you are likely going to have to network like crazy or do really academically to get a decent job from either school.

TITCR...but i would again add that i personally would much rather have little debt at graduation so i can network for the job i want and not have to be forced into networking for biglaw so I can pay off my $100,000 in debt



Thats reason for celebration. No-one wants to go to Lubbock.

texas man
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Re: Texas Tech v South Texas

Postby texas man » Thu May 06, 2010 5:49 pm

If you want to practice in Houston/Dallas/Austin, this might be helpful:

From the State Bar of Texas, attorney profiles by county:

Harris:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Section=Research_and_Analysis&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=24268

Dallas:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Section=Research_and_Analysis&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=24266

Tarrant:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Section=Research_and_Analysis&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=24270

Travis:
http://www.texasbar.com/Template.cfm?Section=Research_and_Analysis&Template=/ContentManagement/ContentDisplay.cfm&ContentID=24271

So, I agree with B.Gump -- if Houston, then South Texas. If anywhere else in Texas, then Texas Tech. Then again, the Lanier Law Firm is in Houston...

Thats reason for celebration. No-one wants to go to Lubbock.


Actually, I'm looking forward to going to Lubbock.




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