BYU 2010 Waitlist Forum

[austrascruff]

Okay, thought we should get a thread going for this year so we can wait it out together, so who's on the waitlist with me?

[drwjr21]

Got my wait list letter on saturday. Let's hope a record number get off of the wait list (or at least me) BYU is my #1 choice.

[adryge]

Also on the wait list, hoping to attend BYU as well.

[phenomenon]

I'm on the waitlist. It showed up waitlisted on my status last Thursday then it changed to decision rendered. I received the official letter yesterday that says I'm waitlisted. Good luck everybody!

[davipatr]

Waitlisted as well. Denied at Utah. Looks like I may have to move. I really want to go there, like all of you. Let's hope lots of people withdraw.

[Casper_n]

Not to be cynical, but how many people are really going to turn down BYU Law? The undergrad program has the highest acceptance rate in the nation -- and I can only assume that trend would be similar in the graduate programs.

Anyone have any facts or insight that might prove me wrong and give me more hope?

[drwjr21]

Not to be cynical, but how many people are really going to turn down BYU Law? The undergrad program has the highest acceptance rate in the nation -- and I can only assume that trend would be similar in the graduate programs.

Anyone have any facts or insight that might prove me wrong and give me more hope?

I think you are right. I would think BYU would be the number #1 school for a greater percentage of the applicants then for most other schools. The main reasons being religous and low tuition. Though I hope a lot of people withdrawl and attend one of the t14 instead

[Jetsetter]

Add me to the wait list too just glad that envelope didn't have a ding in it BYU is my #1 choice.

[austrascruff]

Not to be cynical, but how many people are really going to turn down BYU Law? The undergrad program has the highest acceptance rate in the nation -- and I can only assume that trend would be similar in the graduate programs.

Anyone have any facts or insight that might prove me wrong and give me more hope?

Here is some information pulled from an older thread on this website:

"The other day I recall their yield for their undergrad is 80%. Law school can't be too far off."


"Their yield rate for law school is 56%, according to LSN. Quite good given the school's ranking, but still a far cry from their undergraduate yield."

I don't know if that gives you any hope, it's all I could find on the subject.

[Casper_n]

Thanks Scruff

At this point I'll take what I can get, and that's substantially better odds than I expected.

[Padimud]

Not to be cynical, but how many people are really going to turn down BYU Law? The undergrad program has the highest acceptance rate in the nation -- and I can only assume that trend would be similar in the graduate programs.

Anyone have any facts or insight that might prove me wrong and give me more hope?

Just withdrew, and know of three other accepted that will be withdrawing here in the next week or so. . . So don't lose hope if BYU is your #1, seats will open, just hope that you are on the part of the waitlist they want and not the soft rejection pile.

Wish you all the best, we are headed to William and Mary. And from my understanding the yield is in the high 40's from accepted to matriculated. However I have no hard proof to back that up.

[loquist]

I've been escorted to the ranks of the purgatorial waitlist as well. I do know that last year there were a number of people admitted from the waitlist.

The chances may be 1 in a million. (So you're sayin' there's a chance!)

[bigbear78]

Well my status Checker just updated from,
Current Status: Complete
Current Status Date: 2/02/2010
to
Current Status: Under Review
Current Status Date: 3/31/2010

I'll more than likely be joining this group on what maybe a hopeless endeavor (wait list).
Last year only one guy got in off the wait list, he had extraordinary numbers, he just applied late in the cycle.
Good luck everyone!

[cle07007]

Not to burst anyone's bubble, but I wanted to give the waitlisted folks a real evaluation. At the admitted students day, Professor David Thomas told me that of all law schools nationwide, BYU has the highest statistics regarding accepted students who in turn matriculate to form the entering class. Straight from his mouths, "We make around 200 offers for admission in order to form the incoming class of about 150 students."

Is there still hope for the waitlisted bunch? You can draw your own conclusions. All I am saying is that it would behoove you to be considering other schools very seriously.

[loquist]

It is well known that BYU has fewer declines than other schools, but the situation is not quite as dire as you report. Regardless of what admissions said to you, historically the numbers have been more like 240-260 admit and incoming class of 145-150.

Does that lend one to believe that the waitlist is a sure thing? No. It is, however, not out of reach and thus it is not unreasonable to keep it on the back burner just in case. I doubt anyone on this forum is disregarding other schools where they have been accepted in order to maintain focus on the BYU waitlist unless they intend on waiting until next year to reapply.

[cle07007]

It is well known that BYU has fewer declines than other schools, but the situation is not quite as dire as you report.

Did my message come off with a "dire" tone? I actually meant it to come off with a "absolutely no chance, unless hell freezes over" tone.

Regardless of what admissions said to you, historically the numbers have been more like 240-260 admit and incoming class of 145-150.

Apparently it's also smart to disregard current information from prominent members of the admissions committee and resort to historical statistics. Another smart move was clarifying that "around 200" actually means "more like 240-260". But what do I know? I only went to the admitted students luncheon and had a candid conversation with admissions committee members (who had nothing to hide, as I was attending the event for admitted students).

Let's be logical though. If the yield rate on LSN is correct (56%) then we can break this down using the numbers I was told on Monday versus the historical numbers provided by loquist. Keep in mind these numbers are not exact, but reflect the prior two posts.

About 200 admitted = about 112 matriculate -- leaving around 33-38 people a chance to be admitted from the waitlist.

240-260 admitted = 134-145 matriculate -- leaving anywhere between 11-16 and 0-5 people a chance to be admitted from the waitlist.

This is all assuming that the "about 150" and the "145-150" numbers of the entering class are correct.

Conclusion: Your response to my post makes the situation more dire by at least 50%. Congratulations.

[loquist]

Let's run through this correctly, shall we?

An admitted student is one that is offered admission to the school. This includes those that are offered admission after being placed on the waitlist. Your numbers fail to account for this fact. You calculate your numbers with the assumption that all those admitted never were placed on the waitlist.

Notice that your calculation regarding my numbers provide 0 spaces left for admission with a 56% matriculation rate? You assume that it's because no one gets in off the waitlist. I'll let you in on a little secret.........It's because those numbers ALREADY INCLUDE the people admitted from the waitlist. Shhhh.....don't tell anyone. The "admitted students" report given by a law school does not differentiate between those immediately accepted and those accepted after being waitlisted. An offer for admission is the same regardless of when it is given.

They offer 200 students hoping to form a class of 150. They fall short of that with an average of 112 accepting. That means they accept around 60 off the waitlist with 34 matriculating (their 56% average). If you add 112+34=146. Holy crap!!! Would you look at that? That's right about their average class size.

Perhaps you should call the Dean of Admissions and withdraw your application. You could probably make room for someone who is less of a prick and better with arguments. Now run along before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Please Lord, don't let this guy ruin anyone's life by representing them in court.

[cle07007]

Seriously, you really resorted to using derogatory language like "prick"? And you even called upon deity at the end of your post?

--Nice ad hominem and pleading with the Lord for a ridiculous request--

That really is not even worthy of a response. If you can't use arguments, then resort to name calling I guess.

But it appears that I was correct in that they send out around 200 acceptance letters to begin with. That's the point I was trying to make in my original post.

Thanks for clarifying what the 56% takes into account (genuine thanks). I apologize for misunderstanding your different number. I don't spend time worrying about that extra 40-60 admittances so I did not understand the difference.

And thanks for the advice about withdrawing my application (genuine thanks again-- I take any advice under consideration). Maybe I will so they make room for you instead, O master of arguments!

My original post was not intended to make anyone mad, nor to be the harbinger of doom. I just thought I would share with people what I heard first-hand on Monday. If I were on the waitlist, I know I would appreciate getting a realistic perspective rather than optimistic wishful thinking.

[loquist]

That really is not even worthy of a response. If you can't use arguments, then resort to name calling I guess.

I resorted to name calling after I made a correct argument. The name calling was not an avoidance of argument, it was an observation of behavior.

But it appears that I was correct in that they send out around 200 acceptance letters to begin with. That's the point I was trying to make in my original post.

No, it wasn't. Making this statement is intellectually dishonest.

[BarbaraGordon]

this thread has turned awfully ugly for a bunch of prospects of perhaps the most religious school in the nation.

cle07007:
If Dean Hernandez's numbers are an indication of what he intends for this year, it is indeed a departure from the past. Either way, BYU law is not historically known for having among the highest yields in the nation. In fact, the yield has been falling as JRCLS continues to slip in the rankings. The most talented LDS students are increasingly choosing prestige over church.

Your comment that the school must be presenting accurate info because the audience was already admitted is also a bit misleading. The school is not a disinterested party. It has a vested interest in portraying the school as respected and desirable as possible, so that they don't lose admitted prospects to higher-ranked schools.

loquist:
You only undermine your position by following up your facts with juvenile ad hominems and sarcastic appeals to the Almighty.

[loquist]

Your comment that the school must be presenting accurate info because the audience was already admitted is also a bit misleading. The school is not a disinterested party. It has a vested interest in portraying the school as respected and desirable as possible, so that they don't lose admitted prospects to higher-ranked schools.

This is compounded with the fact that they also do not yet know who or what the makeup of the 2010 will be. The date requiring a seat deposit to be paid has not yet passed, and as such the school does not even have preliminary data regarding who will be attending and what sort of matriculation rate they can expect, though historical data does tend to hold somewhat true on a year to year basis.

loquist:
You only undermine your position by following up your facts with juvenile ad hominems and sarcastic appeals to the Almighty.

I found it somewhat fitting considering the tone of the individual in question, though I would question whether it truly undermines the nature of the debate when facts are given. My apologies are given to you and the other posters on the thread as it is not my normal behavior.

[cle07007]

Just to remind you loquist (yes I will still address you, even though I have been derogated to the appellation "the individual in question") you are the impetus for this.

In response to my very first post--You said that I made the situation sound dire, that I should disregard what the admissions committee members told me, and that I was under the impression that people are disregarding all other schools to focus on BYU. That inference about me is wrong, by the way.

In sum, you voided my post by degrading me as well as anything that might be useful from the post. That was just plain disrespectful.

I apologize for my "absolutely no chance, unless hell freezes over" comment. That was super sarcastic and I take it back. After that comment my post was filled with sarcasm, which I should not have done. Again, my apologies.

You again escalated the postings and resorted to further abusive language. In a later post, you even defended your usage of derogatory and mean-spirited comments (by blaming my behavior and my posts for your use of such comments) before you apologized to everyone, except to "the individual in question." It is interesting that it is my fault for what you said (i.e. "I found it somewhat fitting considering the tone of the individual in question.")

This probably will not even phase you because of the self-bias effect, but I understand why you think this is all my fault. What I don't understand is how you can appear to be apparently remorseless while still "apologizing" and claiming that it is not normal of your behavior (while you seem to be very adept at demeaning others).

Either way, this is not worth arguing over anymore.

[bigbear78]

loquist, I'm sorry bud, I'm not an admitted student, but I went through this process last year, had an interview with dean Hernandez, and spent a lot of time visiting with other members of the committee. cle07007 is right, and like I said in my last post, if your numbers aren't totally awesome (at least 170 Lsat), chances are very slim-to-none. Sorry, honest truth, it even includes myself.

[loquist]

loquist, I'm sorry bud, I'm not an admitted student, but I went through this process last year, had an interview with dean Hernandez, and spent a lot of time visiting with other members of the committee. cle07007 is right, and like I said in my last post, if your numbers aren't totally awesome (at least 170 Lsat), chances are very slim-to-none. Sorry, honest truth, it even includes myself.

I'm in no way denying that chances of being accepted off of the waitlist are slim. Rumor has it that BYU's waitlist is as long as their acceptance list, making it highly unlikely that any one individual would be accepted. The lower one's scores the greater the unlikeliness, as you said.

The topic at hand was whether or not the waitlist is utilized, and like all law schools it is. Am I counting on being admitted? No. I've already placed my seat deposit at an alternate school. However, that will not preclude me from keeping my name on the list. There is no harm nor foul to me in doing so. I would be willing to bet that most people on this thread (like you last year) are pretty much doing the same.

In some ways it would actually have been easier to be dinged.

[DRPSET]

Waitlisted as well. Denied at Utah.

What!? I thought this never happened, it supposed to be the other way around.