Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Cal.1985.Seth
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Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby Cal.1985.Seth » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:00 pm

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job ... yer/Salary

look at 0-1 yr experience. That's pretty low. Anyone have the average salary? I'm guessing it won't be much different.

typodragon
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby typodragon » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:02 pm

most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.

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hous
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby hous » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:05 pm

Cal.1985.Seth wrote:http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Attorney_%2f_Lawyer/Salary

look at 0-1 yr experience. That's pretty low. Anyone have the average salary? I'm guessing it won't be much different.


To be honest, thats actually too high.

I think median starting salary is closer to 45k.

I have a teacher in undergrad who went to law school and the first thing she had us do was write down what we thought was the average starting salary for the average person coming out of law school. I guessed 60k which was lower then most people in my class, but she told us its really only 43k.

Average attorney salary is around 90k, but those cats have been in the game for awhile.

kritiosboy
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby kritiosboy » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:09 pm

That figure ($57,000) is absolutely useless.

Read up on bimodal distribution: http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_le ... on-of.html

agibson6
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby agibson6 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:26 pm

check out powerscore's website. I think they have a table that shows a correlation between lsat score and starting salary. I've also seen tables somewhere correlating schools and the earning power of their graduates. The conclusion is the same: kill the lsat and get into a great school (if salary is the major motivator, of course).

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JuryDueT1000
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby JuryDueT1000 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:33 pm

typodragon wrote:most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.


Wow, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here... No matter how "good" or "bad" of a lawyer you are, you're getting paid $40 - 50k to start out as a public defender or assistant district attorney. Are all public defenders or district attorneys bad lawyers or from bad schools?

polycom01
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby polycom01 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:43 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:
typodragon wrote:most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.


Wow, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here... No matter how "good" or "bad" of a lawyer you are, you're getting paid $40 - 50k to start out as a public defender or assistant district attorney. Are all public defenders or district attorneys bad lawyers or from bad schools?


While the best public defenders from the best schools may start with a low salary, I still think there is some credit to his "bad lawyer" remark.

As law professor Rory Little bluntly stated about the low California bar passage rate, "We've got a lot of hack people taking the exam who [sic] you really wouldn't want to pass. We've got enough hacks."

amyLAchemist
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby amyLAchemist » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:50 pm

Depends on:

a) the kind of school you went to

b) the kind of law you practice

UCLA/USC median is 135k for instance, and stanford's is 160k, and higher for those entering private law firms.

applejuice
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby applejuice » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:55 pm

amyLAchemist wrote:Depends on:

a) the kind of school you went to

b) the kind of law you practice

UCLA/USC median is 135k for instance, and stanford's is 160k, and higher for those entering private law firms.


I agree ! My roommate goes to GWU and works at a Private firm and her offer was a tad more than market value, our same friend goes to Howard Law and she is working for the government for $70k...

All of the friends that I have that are at T20's, that went to Private firms got market value offers (160k)...check out http://www.vault.com

My roommate actually got into Boalt but decided to go to GWU b/c @ the time they were 2nd for IP. She did the evening program and clerked at a firm in the day time, so they ended up bringing her in as a 3rd yr associate, and they offered her like 185k....something to think about for those that are considering schools in D.C.

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JuryDueT1000
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby JuryDueT1000 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:56 pm

polycom01 wrote:
ChrisMike624 wrote:
typodragon wrote:most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.


Wow, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here... No matter how "good" or "bad" of a lawyer you are, you're getting paid $40 - 50k to start out as a public defender or assistant district attorney. Are all public defenders or district attorneys bad lawyers or from bad schools?


While the best public defenders from the best schools may start with a low salary, I still think there is some credit to his "bad lawyer" remark.

As law professor Rory Little bluntly stated about the low California bar passage rate, "We've got a lot of hack people taking the exam who [sic] you really wouldn't want to pass. We've got enough hacks."


Credit? You have to be kidding me. You're obviously one of them...

polycom01
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby polycom01 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:04 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:
polycom01 wrote:
ChrisMike624 wrote:
typodragon wrote:most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.


Wow, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here... No matter how "good" or "bad" of a lawyer you are, you're getting paid $40 - 50k to start out as a public defender or assistant district attorney. Are all public defenders or district attorneys bad lawyers or from bad schools?


While the best public defenders from the best schools may start with a low salary, I still think there is some credit to his "bad lawyer" remark.

As law professor Rory Little bluntly stated about the low California bar passage rate, "We've got a lot of hack people taking the exam who [sic] you really wouldn't want to pass. We've got enough hacks."


Credit? You have to be kidding me. You're obviously one of them...


No, not kidding. One day you will get out in the real world and see how it is. Trust me, I've seen numerous bad attorneys in court, and it's not a pretty scene (I saw a judge openly mock one guy). But you go on believing what you believe (although I agree with your point that it doesn't correleate to low salaries, especially in the public sector. I was merely stating that he is right about one thing: there are a lot of bad lawyers out there.)

Rule11
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby Rule11 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:07 pm

Chrismike: http://www.jdunderground.com

The shitlaw world is teeming with bad lawyers.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:07 pm

Yes, there is some truth to typodragon's post. Even if you go to a less-than-premier school, however, I think if you perform exceedingly well you will be in a good position to make a comfortable salary upon graduation. I, on the other hand, will settle for no less than going to a T15 school and making a butt load of money upon graduation (to pay off my debt). I hope my dreams aren't disappointed.

amyLAchemist
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby amyLAchemist » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:07 pm

applejuice wrote:
amyLAchemist wrote:Depends on:

a) the kind of school you went to

b) the kind of law you practice

UCLA/USC median is 135k for instance, and stanford's is 160k, and higher for those entering private law firms.


I agree ! My roommate goes to GWU and works at a Private firm and her offer was a tad more than market value, our same friend goes to Howard Law and she is working for the government for $70k...

All of the friends that I have that are at T20's, that went to Private firms got market value offers (160k)...check out http://www.vault.com

My roommate actually got into Boalt but decided to go to GWU b/c @ the time they were 2nd for IP. She did the evening program and clerked at a firm in the day time, so they ended up bringing her in as a 3rd yr associate, and they offered her like 185k....something to think about for those that are considering schools in D.C.


Yeah, I know several people who went to Santa Clara and ended up with 180k+ starting salaries doing IP law in the bay area.

hayman
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby hayman » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:07 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:
polycom01 wrote:
ChrisMike624 wrote:
typodragon wrote:most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.


Wow, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here... No matter how "good" or "bad" of a lawyer you are, you're getting paid $40 - 50k to start out as a public defender or assistant district attorney. Are all public defenders or district attorneys bad lawyers or from bad schools?


While the best public defenders from the best schools may start with a low salary, I still think there is some credit to his "bad lawyer" remark.

As law professor Rory Little bluntly stated about the low California bar passage rate, "We've got a lot of hack people taking the exam who [sic] you really wouldn't want to pass. We've got enough hacks."


Credit? You have to be kidding me. You're obviously one of them...


by looking at the op's remark, it sounds like he/she was assuming that "lawyers" meant people in the private sector (even if the term 'lawyer' is broad and includes people outside of law firms.) And typodragon is probably just making a general comment about inferior lawyers in the private sector.

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izcanzbelawyrnow?
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby izcanzbelawyrnow? » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:10 pm

applejuice wrote:
amyLAchemist wrote:Depends on:

a) the kind of school you went to

b) the kind of law you practice

UCLA/USC median is 135k for instance, and stanford's is 160k, and higher for those entering private law firms.


I agree ! My roommate goes to GWU and works at a Private firm and her offer was a tad more than market value, our same friend goes to Howard Law and she is working for the government for $70k...

All of the friends that I have that are at T20's, that went to Private firms got market value offers (160k)...check out http://www.vault.com

My roommate actually got into Boalt but decided to go to GWU b/c @ the time they were 2nd for IP. She did the evening program and clerked at a firm in the day time, so they ended up bringing her in as a 3rd yr associate, and they offered her like 185k....something to think about for those that are considering schools in D.C.


Well DUH. Of course people from Boalt and Harvard and Columbia and Stanford make 100K+. We're talking average salary, which means all of the people with shitty jobs drag down the average. You can't look at an individual case as a litmus for whether or not this reported average holds water. I know like 10 people with sweet jobs as lawyers - I also know 20 people with shitty jobs as lawyers. Even so, my sample is not representative enough to determine whether this average is valid, and neither is yours.

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JuryDueT1000
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby JuryDueT1000 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:16 pm

polycom01 wrote:

No, not kidding. One day you will get out in the real world and see how it is. Trust me, I've seen numerous bad attorneys in court, and it's not a pretty scene (I saw a judge openly mock one guy). But you go on believing what you believe (although I agree with your point that it doesn't correleate to low salaries, especially in the public sector. I was merely stating that he is right about one thing: there are a lot of bad lawyers out there.)


I've been in the real world for a long time buddy, I didn't just graduate two years ago. That aside, fine there are a shit load of bad lawyers out there, and for that matter, doctors, and politicians, and investment bankers, and pretty much every other profession there is. What kind of credible statement is that?

What I really have a problem with is the bad lawyers sending their kids to bad schools, that's just uncalled for and incredibly ignorant (not to mention the irrelevant correlation to low salaries)


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Stanford4Me
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby Stanford4Me » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:28 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:What I really have a problem with is the bad lawyers sending their kids to bad schools, that's just uncalled for and incredibly ignorant (not to mention the irrelevant correlation to low salaries)

Hyperbolic/irrelevant statements are a norm here, get used to them.

kritiosboy
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby kritiosboy » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:33 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:
typodragon wrote:most lawyers are bad lawyers and go to bad schools that prepare them to have bad careers making bad money so they can send their kids to bad schools where they will be prepared to be bad lawyers.


Wow, this is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read on here... No matter how "good" or "bad" of a lawyer you are, you're getting paid $40 - 50k to start out as a public defender or assistant district attorney. Are all public defenders or district attorneys bad lawyers or from bad schools?


typo's post was def not serious.

polycom01
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby polycom01 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:34 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:
polycom01 wrote:

No, not kidding. One day you will get out in the real world and see how it is. Trust me, I've seen numerous bad attorneys in court, and it's not a pretty scene (I saw a judge openly mock one guy). But you go on believing what you believe (although I agree with your point that it doesn't correleate to low salaries, especially in the public sector. I was merely stating that he is right about one thing: there are a lot of bad lawyers out there.)


I've been in the real world for a long time buddy, I didn't just graduate two years ago. That aside, fine there are a shit load of bad lawyers out there, and for that matter, doctors, and politicians, and investment bankers, and pretty much every other profession there is. What kind of credible statement is that?

What I really have a problem with is the bad lawyers sending their kids to bad schools, that's just uncalled for and incredibly ignorant (not to mention the irrelevant correlation to low salaries)


If I ever see http://www.mdunderground.com pop up, then I'll be truly scared.

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JuryDueT1000
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby JuryDueT1000 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:35 pm

I didn't know you were typos bitch

kritiosboy
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby kritiosboy » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:37 pm

ChrisMike624 wrote:I didn't know you were typos bitch


I'm not, I felt the need to say something because you looked like an idiot responding to it as if he was serious. hth.

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JuryDueT1000
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby JuryDueT1000 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:39 pm

kritiosboy wrote:
I'm not, I felt the need to say something because you looked like an idiot responding to it as if he was serious. hth.


Sweet, so your my bitch then. Good looking out bitch.

Rule11
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Re: Can this be true? Median starting salary for lawyers

Postby Rule11 » Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:41 pm

ChrisMike has a great point here. It is inherently disrespectful to suggest that there are bad lawyers, and that skill and salary correlate. Please stop making people feel bad.




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