What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

hil713
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What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby hil713 » Mon May 26, 2008 12:18 pm

I am going to be retaking the LSAT in October (didn't get enough scholarship this last cycle so I'm retaking to try and get a higher score and reapplying). I am trying to decide what course to take (kaplan, powerscore, etc). Last time I just studied on my own. I am very disciplined and did a fair amount of studying for the previous LSAT and on all the practice tests (done under real testing conditions) scored 165-168 so I know I am capable of it. Any suggestions as to what course I should take? It seems that since I wasn't able to reach my goal on my own I need to try a different avenue. Thanks!

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Tue May 27, 2008 12:53 am

hil713 wrote:I am going to be retaking the LSAT in October (didn't get enough scholarship this last cycle so I'm retaking to try and get a higher score and reapplying). I am trying to decide what course to take (kaplan, powerscore, etc). Last time I just studied on my own. I am very disciplined and did a fair amount of studying for the previous LSAT and on all the practice tests (done under real testing conditions) scored 165-168 so I know I am capable of it. Any suggestions as to what course I should take? It seems that since I wasn't able to reach my goal on my own I need to try a different avenue. Thanks!

Don't take a course.

If you are in the 165-168 range the classes will not help you. Buy the Powerscore bibles and just take as many tests as possible.

invinoveritas
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby invinoveritas » Fri May 30, 2008 6:03 pm

I would tend to agree, that if you got that high in practice you should be able to do it on your own if you keep at it.

I would also get LSAT Workout. It's really hard and great if you're aiming for a higher score.

MajikMonkey
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby MajikMonkey » Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:58 pm

Oddly, Im in the exact same boat - thinking about taking a course and retaking in October. I also got a 160 on the real deal after scoring about a 167 average on practice exams and studying on my own, and I even scored as high as 171 on a practice test in the past.

The problem for me is that I am not necessarily focused and have a hard time getting much done on my own at times or taking the studying seriously until I feel pressured. My reasoning for taking the course more because it would force me into regular study habits when I know I have potential to move into the mid 170s with the correct discipline. You say that you dont have a discipline problem, but discipline can be misdirected... I also studied a ton for my last LSAT, but I have a feeling that how and when I studied caused my progress to be less than it could otherwise have been.

The positives of a course that I see for somebody in our situation, are that the structure and timeline of a course are well planned out and force you to work on all aspects of the exam thoroughly. You will have class 2 or three times a week at normal hours of the day, and will be pressured to finish assignments on schedule etc. Additionally, the practice exams are in a more realistic environment. When I studied alone, I had a general guideline and timeline, but was mainly unconcerned or unable to finish things on a regular basis, so would end up getting a ton done on certain days and very little on others. I would stay up late working sometimes, and take practice tests in all sorts of different environments from my living room to the library. I think these inconsistent habits of studying added up to making me somewhat uncomfortable during the actual exam, and denied me some of the rote memory advantages of working on a habitual schedule, slowing me down. So while I was disciplined enough to get over 20 real practice exams completed, as well as to read through several strategy books including the powerscore bibles and kaplan 180 etc, I dont think my discipline was directed entirely in the right direction. My hope is that the course will help me redirect and raise my score.

Maybe the same is true for you, maybe not, but the way i see it, a $1,500 course is an investment that will likely pay off directly in grant/scholarship money if it helps you boost your top score by 5 pts, and may get you into another tier of schools. So it really isnt worth being hardheaded against the course as I have been in the past simply becouse you "could" do it on your own. Just do what actually will make you do what you already know you are capable of.

All that said, I still dont know what the best course is to take. Advice would be greatly appreciated. One thing that comes to mind, and might be pertinent is that I have taken a majority of the real LSAT exams and/or done passages from them. I know some of the programs advertise that they use only or mostly real questions from past exams, which might not be so great if it means I will be redoing questions that I have already seen... If the old exam was a year ago and I havn't studied since, this might be a problem...

Fup
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby Fup » Tue Jun 03, 2008 7:29 pm

Taking a prep course isn't going to help. Based on your practice tests, it's fair to assume that you had some problem with the real test (text anxiety, perhaps) rather than a lack of skill that could be corrected. I think you should try and identify and correct whatever went wrong on the real test, and practice some more to keep yourself in good mental shape. While a prep course might teach you a couple things, I'm sure you can learn it from a book for 1/10 the cost.

MajikMonkey
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby MajikMonkey » Tue Jun 03, 2008 8:19 pm

Nobody even thinks the "kaplan advanced" course or anything like that would be worth while for us?

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:25 am

MajikMonkey wrote:Nobody even thinks the "kaplan advanced" course or anything like that would be worth while for us?

No.

The only worth it would have, as mentioned above, is keeping you on a study schedule. If you are diligent enough to study on your own and get positive work done, then a course is a waste of your time.

MajikMonkey
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby MajikMonkey » Thu Jun 05, 2008 7:54 pm

I saw in a similar topic, somebody suggested rather than taking the course, book a few hrs with a private tutor. Any thoughts on this given our situation?

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Blakkout
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby Blakkout » Thu Jun 05, 2008 10:09 pm

How many more people need to say no for you to accept the answer?

From my experience taking a class, (and having some time with a tutor) once you're in about the 160's others teaching you becomes less and less effective. You obviously have a decent knowledge of the test. You're better off buying some books, pounding them out, and learning from your own mistakes.

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:14 am

Blakkout wrote:How many more people need to say no for you to accept the answer?

From my experience taking a class, (and having some time with a tutor) once you're in about the 160's others teaching you becomes less and less effective. You obviously have a decent knowledge of the test. You're better off buying some books, pounding them out, and learning from your own mistakes.

TITCR.

At this point just hire a damned tutor or take a course if you are so sure it'll help (Hint: IT WON"T). Just be sure to let us know how it feels to be $XXX.XX lighter in the wallet with no more legit knowledge or a score increase to show for it.

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superfrodo
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby superfrodo » Fri Jun 06, 2008 1:46 pm

Nobody even thinks the "kaplan advanced" course or anything like that would be worth while for us?

I saw in a similar topic, somebody suggested rather than taking the course, book a few hrs with a private tutor. Any thoughts on this given our situation?


Why would you even bother paying the hundreds of dollars to take two tests anyway? Think about it -- statistically, most people who retake the test only raise their score by 1 or 2 points (that is, if they do not score lower the second time), and even if you do manage to raise your score it might not help you at all in the long run. This depends a lot on the law schools to which you are applying.

Some law schools average your scores together, in which case a higher score might help you, but probably not by much, especially if you only score a couple of points higher like most other people -- if you end up making a lower score on the second test, which is definitely possible, then this could hurt you in the long run if a school averages the scores together.
Other law schools only take the higher score -- but then you have to ask yourself, are 1 or 2 extra points really worth my physical/mental/emotional time and energy? Are 1 or 2 points really worth my money? Especially consider this if you are shooting for a higher score based on your original scholarship award. What if you only score 1 or 2 points higher (or lower) and the amount of financial aid still does not increase? Then you just wasted $100+ retaking a test that you could have used to buy books you will need once you matriculate at law school.

Also, it's important to remember that your LSAT scores aren't everything. Your LSAT score and your GPA are important, but law schools ask for other things like resumes and letters of recommendation for a reason. If you have spent so much time preparing for the LSAT and taking multiple tests that you have failed to participate in other enjoyable activities that make you a well-rounded individual and creative thinker, then that could hurt your ability to get into a particular school. Sure, study and prepare for the LSAT, but you must efficiently manage your time while preparing to apply to law school -- also be sure to maintain your GPA as best you can, meet with professors you personally know and like and discuss letters of recommendation with them, and work on putting some umph in your resume (which might work better if you do activities you love to do, rather than those you feel obligated to do -- like becoming an LSAT zombie).

My advice to you? Drop the LSAT books already and pick up a copy of the Ivey Guide to Law School Admissions. It's an easy read and will hopefully allow to feel more confident and comfortable about the entire admissions process.

MajikMonkey
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby MajikMonkey » Fri Jun 06, 2008 6:51 pm

but maybe i should take the class, do you guys think so?...

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:41 am

superfrodo wrote:Some law schools average your scores together.

Incorrect. Only the highest score is reported for purposes of 25/Median/75. As far as I know, when that changed, all schools stopped averaging. There might be one or two, but it's very few (if it's any).

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kn6542
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby kn6542 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:42 am

akahrpaperstacks wrote:
superfrodo wrote:Some law schools average your scores together.

Incorrect. Only the highest score is reported for purposes of 25/Median/75. As far as I know, when that changed, all schools stopped averaging. There might be one or two, but it's very few (if it's any).

Where the fuck did you get this information?

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:44 am

kn6542 wrote:
akahrpaperstacks wrote:
superfrodo wrote:Some law schools average your scores together.

Incorrect. Only the highest score is reported for purposes of 25/Median/75. As far as I know, when that changed, all schools stopped averaging. There might be one or two, but it's very few (if it's any).

Where the fuck did you get this information?

Which part?

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kn6542
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby kn6542 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:45 am

akahrpaperstacks wrote:
kn6542 wrote:
akahrpaperstacks wrote:
superfrodo wrote:Some law schools average your scores together.

Incorrect. Only the highest score is reported for purposes of 25/Median/75. As far as I know, when that changed, all schools stopped averaging. There might be one or two, but it's very few (if it's any).

Where the fuck did you get this information?

Which part?

Some schools state that they will only take the higher score if there's a specific point difference. Some average, and it's not "one or two".

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:46 am

kn6542 wrote:Some schools state that they will only take the higher score if there's a specific point difference. Some average, and it's not "one or two".

Post them then. I'd like to see this list.

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kn6542
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby kn6542 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:49 am

akahrpaperstacks wrote:
kn6542 wrote:Some schools state that they will only take the higher score if there's a specific point difference. Some average, and it's not "one or two".

Post them then. I'd like to see this list.

It's been posted before.

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:50 am

Granted this is from June 2006 (and a lot has changed since then), but:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=689

Yale: No change in policy; still averaging. "We don't base admissions on your numbers..." Yeah...

Harvard: No final decision. Advised to contact jdadmiss@law.harvard.edu for further developments

NYU: No change in policy as yet. However, "it is definitley possible our policy could change before the next cycle."

UMich: Now accepting highest score

Georgetown: Originally stated that they would not change policies. After deliberation with other counselors the representative I spoke to said that they would being accepting the higher score. However, she noted that Georgetown (as well as other law schools) would look much more favorably upon students who took only one LSAT.

Duke: No change in policy. "This only has to do with the ABA, why would we change our own policies?"

USC: Accepting higher score [But they implied that they always have. I'm not sure this is the case.]

UCLA: Now accepting higher score

Boalt: Now accepting higher score

Stanford: Pretentiously ambiguous answer

Columbia: No change in policy. 6+ points for higher score consideration.

Schools already accepting higher score:
UPenn
Northwestern
Cornell

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kn6542
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby kn6542 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:54 am

That's the T14. You're saying there might be one or two out of the entire pool.

If you talk out of your ass again, it won't go well for you. Get it together.

Darth Topher
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby Darth Topher » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:56 am

akahrpaperstacks wrote:
superfrodo wrote:Some law schools average your scores together.

Incorrect. Only the highest score is reported for purposes of 25/Median/75. As far as I know, when that changed, all schools stopped averaging. There might be one or two, but it's very few (if it's any).


Get it together "honest abe"

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:56 am

kn6542 wrote:That's the T14. You're saying there might be one or two out of the entire pool.

If you talk out of your ass again, it won't go well for you. Get it together.

deleted

Second, post information to back up your claims. If you don't, then please stop talking out of your ass.

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 12:58 am

Here's more from 2006 (some repeated):

For students who have to or are considering taking the LSAT more than once, the following list includes law schools that take the higher of your LSAT scores, as opposed to averaging multiple LSAT scores as most law schools do.

Boalt
Cornell
Penn
Northwestern
Georgetown
UCLA
University of North Carolina
University of Illinois
University of Oregon
Pittsburgh
Santa Clara
Syracuse
Seattle
Indiana University-Indianapolis
St. Louis University
University of Arkansas-Fayetteville
Thomas M. Cooley Law School
John Marshall Law School

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akahrpaperstacks
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby akahrpaperstacks » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:03 am

An article from 06, once again (as always) some of these have changed:

http://media.www.dailypennsylvanian.com/media/storage/paper882/news/2006/12/12/News/Lsat-Change.Likely.To.Aid.Potential.Applicants-2532439.shtml?norewrite200612131503&sourcedomain=www.dailypennsylvanian.com
After a shift in American Bar Association protocol last June, 74 percent of law schools currently or will soon evaluate applicants based on their highest LSAT scores, according to a recently released survey by Kaplan Test Prep and Admissions.

Previously, 87 percent of law schools surveyed used an average of scores in evaluating applicants.

The ABA ­- which accredits law schools ­- asked schools last June to begin reporting the highest, rather than the average, test scores of first-year students for accreditation purposes.


So in 2006 there were 48 that weren't yet doing highest or hadn't decided (used a round 185 to come to that) compared to 161 before the rule change.

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kn6542
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Re: What's the best LSAT course? Previous score 160

Postby kn6542 » Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:04 am

akahrpaperstacks wrote:
kn6542 wrote:That's the T14. You're saying there might be one or two out of the entire pool.

If you talk out of your ass again, it won't go well for you. Get it together.

deleted

Second, post information to back up your claims. If you don't, then please stop talking out of your ass.

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