December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

skri65
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December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby skri65 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:05 pm

Last edited by skri65 on Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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RetakeFrenzy
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Re: December LSAT Administrations Down 15.6%

Postby RetakeFrenzy » Wed Jan 09, 2013 12:08 pm

skri65 wrote:http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered.asp


Nice! :D

eyfl
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby eyfl » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:43 pm

I especially like the %change in applicants 8)

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sinfiery
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Re: December LSAT Administrations Down 15.6%

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:47 pm

RetakeFrenzy wrote:
skri65 wrote:http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered.asp


Nice! :D

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patienunderstanding
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby patienunderstanding » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:50 pm

Can someone give their thoughts on which schools are impacted the most? I mean from 50 down or from 75 down ?

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justonemoregame
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby justonemoregame » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:55 pm

patienunderstanding wrote:Can someone give their thoughts on which schools are impacted the most? I mean from 50 down or from 75 down ?


Very generally, I think the schools at the extremes are impacted the least. The T-14 won't have a problem convincing plenty of people to pay sticker. The bottom 50 schools should have that problem, and they probably will have a more difficult time than in the past, however, many of the people attending these schools aren't paying attention to law school crisis talk.

I would guess those impacted the most are the ones that seemed to be impacted the most last round - T25/35s shooting for rank bumps and prestige-by-association.

onionz
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby onionz » Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:59 pm

justonemoregame wrote:
patienunderstanding wrote:Can someone give their thoughts on which schools are impacted the most? I mean from 50 down or from 75 down ?


Very generally, I think the schools at the extremes are impacted the least. The T-14 won't have a problem convincing plenty of people to pay sticker. The bottom 50 schools should have that problem, and they probably will have a more difficult time than in the past, however, many of the people attending these schools aren't paying attention to law school crisis talk.

I would guess those impacted the most are the ones that seemed to be impacted the most last round - T25/35s shooting for rank bumps and prestige-by-association.


Totally disagree. Others have shown that the number of 170+ applicants are dropping by more than 30%, and the number of 175+ applications are dropping by more than 35%. (see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=170835&start=1025) They probably have to take less sstudents, or soemthing

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bizzybone1313
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby bizzybone1313 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:04 pm

UVA seems to be in full blown panic mode based on the money they are throwing out. For those of you who have been following this cycle closely, what other T-14 schools seem to try to be maintaining their medians at whatever the costs?

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LSATSCORES2012
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby LSATSCORES2012 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:07 pm

FYI, the source for the 22.1% number is http://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/ ... volume.asp

Applications are actually down 23.8% :) Looks like people are applying to less schools... but those probably aren't the best applicants, admittedly, because people familiar with the law school situation would likely apply more broadly (at least in terms of reach schools) because of the uncertainty involved in this cycle. (Unfortunately, I also think this means that while, by the numbers, people waitlisted will fare better, individually you'll have a lesser shot of getting in off the waitlist because everyone is going to be sticking around. Although, I suppose it might just be the folks on TLS who will be sticking around more than usual.)

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sinfiery
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:07 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:UVA seems to be in full blown panic mode based on the money they are throwing out. For those of you who have been following this cycle closely, what other T-14 schools seem to try to be maintaining their medians at whatever the costs?

Who knows, maybe UVA is making a power play to solidify the #7 ranking or even try to crack the T6.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby bizzybone1313 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:18 pm

sinfiery wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:UVA seems to be in full blown panic mode based on the money they are throwing out. For those of you who have been following this cycle closely, what other T-14 schools seem to try to be maintaining their medians at whatever the costs?

Who knows, maybe UVA is making a power play to solidify the #7 ranking or even try to crack the T6.


I guess I should clarify a bit. Which T-14 schools are throwing a lot more money around? That would seem to be pretty good indicator that the school knows shit is hitting the fan. The bust is coming or is already here. Retirement accounts are going down the gutter.

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mmk33
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby mmk33 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:32 pm

I wonder how this will affect 3L hiring in the next couple years. I think it may help, at least somewhat, because the total enrollment of students at the top 50 schools will be down for class of 2015 and 2016.

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sinfiery
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby sinfiery » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:35 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:
sinfiery wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:UVA seems to be in full blown panic mode based on the money they are throwing out. For those of you who have been following this cycle closely, what other T-14 schools seem to try to be maintaining their medians at whatever the costs?

Who knows, maybe UVA is making a power play to solidify the #7 ranking or even try to crack the T6.


I guess I should clarify a bit. Which T-14 schools are throwing a lot more money around? That would seem to be pretty good indicator that the school knows shit is hitting the fan. The bust is coming or is already here. Retirement accounts are going down the gutter.

Michigan has been pretty active too.

Those two schools both give their scholarship considerations with/near the acceptance calls. As for the rest, we don't know yet. Too early.

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justonemoregame
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby justonemoregame » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:37 pm

onionz wrote:
justonemoregame wrote:
patienunderstanding wrote:Can someone give their thoughts on which schools are impacted the most? I mean from 50 down or from 75 down ?


Very generally, I think the schools at the extremes are impacted the least. The T-14 won't have a problem convincing plenty of people to pay sticker. The bottom 50 schools should have that problem, and they probably will have a more difficult time than in the past, however, many of the people attending these schools aren't paying attention to law school crisis talk.

I would guess those impacted the most are the ones that seemed to be impacted the most last round - T25/35s shooting for rank bumps and prestige-by-association.


Totally disagree. Others have shown that the number of 170+ applicants are dropping by more than 30%, and the number of 175+ applications are dropping by more than 35%. (see viewtopic.php?f=6&t=170835&start=1025) They probably have to take less sstudents, or soemthing


I was mostly referring to class sizes. I just don't think Penn and UVA should be concerned about letting the LSAT slip to 169. Why would they drop $$$ in revenue just to maintain 170 when all their peers are going to have the same problem? It's not like they're dropping out of the T-14 - these schools have been ranked virtually in the same spot for decades. They will surely have difficulty maintaining their median, and only naturally more difficulty than in the past, but not as much trouble as WUSTL / GWU.

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wtrc
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby wtrc » Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:12 pm

I wonder how this will affect next year and beyond that. Like, are there a lot of people (like myself) holding out and waiting a year and next year will be a massive bump, or will it be more gradual. I hope (and realistically think) that it will be more gradual, and next year will still be down. Hm.

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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby jym_dawg » Wed Jan 09, 2013 5:31 pm

bizzybone1313 wrote:UVA seems to be in full blown panic mode based on the money they are throwing out. For those of you who have been following this cycle closely, what other T-14 schools seem to try to be maintaining their medians at whatever the costs?


If you project UVA's median at 169 for this cycle, then their actions are pretty rational and in line with precious cycles (wrt $ for those above one or both medians).

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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby ncc5 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 6:16 pm

I don't really see UVA throwing that much money around yet. It seems like what they are doing at this point is pretty standard for the scholarship money they usually give out. YP aside, I am interested to see when they are going to start letting those 170/3.7's off the waitlist.

It seems like every school has just been holding their breath waiting to see if God will give them an uptick in December scores, which clearly didn't happen. I have a feeling that we can't approach this cycle with established assumptions, as it seems the levies are breaking.

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02889
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby 02889 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:49 pm

ncc5 wrote:I don't really see UVA throwing that much money around yet. It seems like what they are doing at this point is pretty standard for the scholarship money they usually give out. YP aside, I am interested to see when they are going to start letting those 170/3.7's off the waitlist.

It seems like every school has just been holding their breath waiting to see if God will give them an uptick in December scores, which clearly didn't happen. I have a feeling that we can't approach this cycle with established assumptions, as it seems the levies are breaking.

Given that those are my numbers and I'm de facto waitlisted at NYU (deferred ED), I am also very curious about when they'll let those 170/3.7s off the waitlist. :)

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moonman157
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby moonman157 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:59 pm

Re: UVA going crazy to keep that 170 LSAT, why do any of the T14 care about the medians/ranks? I mean, obviously HYS is going to be as competitive as possible, being ranked higher is nice, and having high stats to pass out on brochures brings a lot of pride, but even if Harvard's LSAT median fell to 170, would that really have a huge impact? Are the T14s ever going to struggle to fill their class sizes or get people to pay $60K a year to attend? I get why a school in the middle of T2 or even T1 might care, since it looks like ASU positively benefited from a huge jump in the rankings, but did Duke lose any of its prestige or applicant quality when its LSAT median fell below a 170? Genuinely curious about this. Thanks.

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fips tedora
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby fips tedora » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:37 am

sinfiery wrote:
bizzybone1313 wrote:UVA seems to be in full blown panic mode based on the money they are throwing out. For those of you who have been following this cycle closely, what other T-14 schools seem to try to be maintaining their medians at whatever the costs?

Who knows, maybe UVA is making a power play to solidify the #7 ranking or even try to crack the T6.

A few schools in the T14 have been strict on their acceptance numbers this year with this knowledge in mind. Berekeley, Cornell, and Duke come to mind. I expect any of these schools to make a move. Virginia will definitely be in the mix.

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bizzybone1313
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby bizzybone1313 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 1:46 am

When this cycle is over, it will be interesting to see how everything turned out. Hell, the next 5-10 years of law school admissions is going to be like a suspense filled movie.

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fips tedora
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby fips tedora » Thu Jan 10, 2013 2:25 am

Wormfather wrote:Pure speculation, but when including 170 retakers, I'm thinking that when estimating liberally, the December administration only added 400-500 new 170+ers.

Brother Wormfather, just think about how much value the AA male/99% percentile LSAT just went up! Feelsgoodman.

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TripTrip
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 10:34 am

moonman157 wrote:if Harvard's LSAT median fell to 170, would that really have a huge impact?

Err, yes. If Harvard's LSAT median fell to 170, "HYS" would probably become "YSC."

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TripTrip
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby TripTrip » Thu Jan 10, 2013 11:04 am

Wormfather wrote:
TripTrip wrote:
moonman157 wrote:if Harvard's LSAT median fell to 170, would that really have a huge impact?

Err, yes. If Harvard's LSAT median fell to 170, "HYS" would probably become "YSC."


LOL, no.

Prestige bro: http://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/top-law-schools/articles/2012/03/12/methodology-law-school-rankings

If I'm not mistaken, Harvard's drop from #2 to #3 was due to a drop in prestige. Enough people see Harvard as a diploma mill to make it a legitimate concern.

I don't think it would happen immediately, but if Harvard's LSAT median really fell to 170 (which won't happen, but if it did) I think that within 5 years we would see Columbia take its place in the top three.

Theopliske8711
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Re: December LSAT Admin. Down 15.6%, Applicants Down 22.1%

Postby Theopliske8711 » Thu Jan 10, 2013 12:18 pm

Harvard? 3rd? Oh man, what are those Harvard Law students to do now? Hurry to the breadline I guess... it's finished! We gotta start kicking out those POS Harvard Law Supreme Court Justices. Obama? Impeach much?

I'm sorry, I just had to. :oops:




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