JUNE 2013 Study Group / Study Partner Thread Forum

[rebexness]

I drill ten games a day and still find myself getting a few wrong. Any suggestions?

10 straight? 10 randomly? What kind of errors are you making? Misunderstanding rules? How is your timing?

[Daily_Double]

Awesome article, motivates me to run a couple extra miles today.

[Daily_Double]

Moran: Although the district judge made a legal error which led to his acquittal of Lamar Evans, because Evans was acquitted, the Double Jeopardy Clause bars further retrial. Therefore, if the acquittal, however it is labeled, constitutes a determination on the merits that the government failed to prove its case, then jeopardy attaches, and Evans should not be retried.

Baughman: By making a legal error, the district judge essentially forced the prosecution to prove an additional element, and the resulting acquittal was a determination of a crime which was not the one for which he was charged. Therefore his acquittal was not proper and the Double Jeopardy Clause does not bar further retrial in this matter.

The dialogue above most strongly supports the claim that Moran and Baughman disagree with each other about which of the following?

Good discussion, I'd guess the answer would be something along the lines of:

A: Whether an district judge's acquittal precludes further retrial pursuant to the Double Jeopardy Clause

[arcanecircle]

Moran: Although the district judge made a legal error which led to his acquittal of Lamar Evans, because Evans was acquitted, the Double Jeopardy Clause bars further retrial. Therefore, if the acquittal, however it is labeled, constitutes a determination on the merits that the government failed to prove its case, then jeopardy attaches, and Evans should not be retried.

Baughman: By making a legal error, the district judge essentially forced the prosecution to prove an additional element, and the resulting acquittal was a determination of a crime which was not the one for which he was charged. Therefore his acquittal was not proper and the Double Jeopardy Clause does not bar further retrial in this matter.

The dialogue above most strongly supports the claim that Moran and Baughman disagree with each other about which of the following?

(A) A district court judge made a legal error in the acquittal of Lamar Evans.
(B) Lamar Evans' acquittal constitutes a determination and is sufficient to attach double jeopardy.
(C) The prosecution, in proving an additional element resulting in an acquittal, served as a determination of a crime which was not the one for which Lamar Evans was charged.
(D) The acquittal of Lamar Evans was proper.
(E) The double jeopardy clause can be applied to an acquittal.


I like this one.

[warandpeace]

Hey everyone. Will anyone repost the list of PTs (in the order you guys are taking them)? I've searched the thread and couldn't find it.
Much appreciated!

Look on the first page in the second comment.

Just know that they are relative, people are busy and it's impossible to stick to a PT plan religiously, technically I'm behind in my own PT plan, although I knew that would happen at the beginning so at the end of my plan is about three weeks of make up time.

totes, i just needed a good plan after i fell off the PT wagon myself

[0913djp]

I'm roughly finishing each game under 8 minutes. I guess my biggest problem is making the inferences from the initial diagram. Perhaps I am missing a few critical inferences which in turn influences me to pick an answer that should be definitely wrong. To give myself some credit, I normally check off an answer that could be good. In the event that I picked a wrong answer (for example B, when it was C), I see that I also considered the correct answer. So, I am choking big time.

Also...yes 10 drills, not in a row (usually three or four at a time, timed at eight minutes), and these are ones that I have seen before but did poorly (two or more wrong).

[Daily_Double]

I'm roughly finishing each game under 8 minutes. I guess my biggest problem is making the inferences from the initial diagram. Perhaps I am missing a few critical inferences which in turn influences me to pick an answer that should be definitely wrong. To give myself some credit, I normally check off an answer that could be good. In the event that I picked a wrong answer (for example B, when it was C), I see that I also considered the correct answer. So, I am choking big time.

Also...yes 10 drills, not in a row (usually three or four at a time, timed at eight minutes), and these are ones that I have seen before but did poorly (two or more wrong).

Are you taking a moment to pause after reading the rules to consider how they restrict the game? I like to do a hypo or two to really reinforce the rules before moving to the questions.

[rebexness]

I usually determine if the rules make for a really restricted game, or a really open game. If the rules are mostly if/then s, then it doesn't make sense to set up a million hypos.

If you can get a really concrete diagram down, then its worth making a hypo or two, especially if there are blocks involved.

[CardozoLaw09]

Try PT21 Game 4 and let me know how long it took. Fairly easy game in my opinion but it took me 9 minutes (-0). It's a hybrid sequencing and grouping game.

[Guerrilla Logic]

Try PT21 Game 4 and let me know how long it took. Fairly easy game in my opinion but it took me 9 minutes (-0). It's a hybrid sequencing and grouping game.

I did this one initially in 5:45 -0. I have it classified as an Advanced - Linear - Underfunded game

[Daily_Double]

Try PT21 Game 4 and let me know how long it took. Fairly easy game in my opinion but it took me 9 minutes (-0). It's a hybrid sequencing and grouping game.

5:56, any specific questions?

[objection_your_honor]

Quick question on point-at-issue/identify the disagreement questions.

Manhattan is pretty strict on advising the test taker to not make any inferences at all for either side. But in one of their review questions for this chapter (PT32, S4, Q20), doesn't the answer require making an inference from Pat's statements?

Pat says a child's accustomed style of learning should NOT always dictate style of learning because flexibility is invaluable. (B) says that ALL children should learn to adapt to various methods.

So either I am reading this incorrectly and this is not an inference, or I need to discard Manhattan's advice to never infer on point-at-issue questions. Which is it?

[Daily_Double]

Quick question on point-at-issue/identify the disagreement questions.

Manhattan is pretty strict on advising the test taker to not make any inferences at all for either side. But in one of their review questions for this chapter (PT32, S4, Q20), doesn't the answer require making an inference from Pat's statements?

Pat says a child's accustomed style of learning should NOT always dictate style of learning because flexibility is invaluable. (B) says that ALL children should learn to adapt to various methods.

So either I am reading this incorrectly and this is not an inference, or I need to discard Manhattan's advice to never infer on point-at-issue questions. Which is it?

It's a little funky ill give it that. But Pat does say that flexibility is invaluable, and Dana says educational methods should depend upon what the kid is used to, so B kinda sticks out as the answer since Pat would say yes and Dana would say no. But I see what you're getting at, I think, does invaluable translate to something all kids should do? It seemed like a safe assumption to me, and I eliminated the rest, so I didn't really have much of a choice but to accept that assumption.

I'm interested to see what others think though.

[CardozoLaw09]

Quick question on point-at-issue/identify the disagreement questions.

Manhattan is pretty strict on advising the test taker to not make any inferences at all for either side. But in one of their review questions for this chapter (PT32, S4, Q20), doesn't the answer require making an inference from Pat's statements?

Pat says a child's accustomed style of learning should NOT always dictate style of learning because flexibility is invaluable. (B) says that ALL children should learn to adapt to various methods.

So either I am reading this incorrectly and this is not an inference, or I need to discard Manhattan's advice to never infer on point-at-issue questions. Which is it?

I would argue it's not really an inference since "not always" could be synonymous with "never" which is in agreement with answer choice B. If we replace "No, not always" with "No, never" are we changing anything that Pat says? I completely understand what you're saying though.

[Guerrilla Logic]

Quick question on point-at-issue/identify the disagreement questions.

Manhattan is pretty strict on advising the test taker to not make any inferences at all for either side. But in one of their review questions for this chapter (PT32, S4, Q20), doesn't the answer require making an inference from Pat's statements?

Pat says a child's accustomed style of learning should NOT always dictate style of learning because flexibility is invaluable. (B) says that ALL children should learn to adapt to various methods.

So either I am reading this incorrectly and this is not an inference, or I need to discard Manhattan's advice to never infer on point-at-issue questions. Which is it?

Dana's position is the polar opposite of B. No children should have to adapt, and Pat is saying flexibility is invaluable (indispensable-absolutely necessary or essential). So yeah, the dictionary definition of invaluable makes it so no inference is needed. I think we just commonly think of invaluable as extremely useful, but it has multiple meanings

[Fianna13]

Taking it easy today and tomorrow. midterms are creeping up. resume drilling and studying on thursday. Btw, anyone has any advices on these point at issue questions? probably the only type of LR that I struggle with.

[Daily_Double]

Taking it easy today and tomorrow. midterms are creeping up. resume drilling and studying on thursday. Btw, anyone has any advices on these point at issue questions? probably the only type of LR that I struggle with.

The correct answer to a point at issue question will be a statement that one speaker would answer in a different way than the other speaker. The wrong answers contain statements which are not addressed by both speakers or which go beyond the statements of the speakers.
Usually, if one person doesn't mention it, then I axe it.

[dopedoer]

Is it too late to join in on this thread? What is it exactly that goes on here? I'd read through the last 96 pages to play catch up, but, well, no, I'm not going to do that.

Sup?

[Daily_Double]

Is it too late to join in on this thread? What is it exactly that goes on here? I'd read through the last 96 pages to play catch up, but, well, no, I'm not going to do that.

Sup?

Welcome to the thread. To answer your question, we try to help each other get to their goals for June. As a side note, the thread does contain some really good information. However, I do completely understand your reason for not catching up, 96 pages is pretty steep, and I'm partly to blame. But if you're looking for some light reading, most of your future questions, assuming you will have some, have probably been answered in pages 20 - 94.

I'm ready for my midterms and done reviewing LSAT stuff, so I'll try to give you what you need to know:

Most of us have broken down prep into three categories, which are not mutually exclusive. First concepts, Powerscore and/or Manhattan, Manhattan is better in most categories, though I'm still not convinced it beats Powerscore at everything. Second, drilling, most of us are using Cambridge's bundles for PTs 1-38. Third, PTs, after you begin PTs and become comfortable with the timing, then five section PTs. There are PT schedules in the second post of the first page.

The most important part of your prep is learning from your mistakes. Now one method of review is called the blind review, look it up. Another is the way I do it, which is pretty similar. Basically, you need to reduce uncertainty in order to increase the chances of you reaching your goal in June. In order to reduce uncertainty, you need to be more certain. More certain when you select answers, more certain when you eliminate wrong answers, and more certain about what the information in the stimulus is getting at. To do this you could review all of your questions you got wrong and all the questions you were unsure about until you are positive why the wrong answers are wrong, why the right answer is correct, and how you could have foreseen the correct answer from the stimulus.

The real value of this thread is that it attempts, and is doing a good job, of providing inspiration and introducing you to some pretty good people, which leads to better review and maybe even a study partner/smaller group to help you get to your goals.

In addition, if you have any questions about anything relating to the LSAT, post it, someone will try to help you out. We're going to kill it in June, welcome to the team.

[natashka85]

When are you guys doing the review for test 52 ,i am taking it Tmr w my study partner?

[dopedoer]

@dailydouble

Thanks for taking the time to give me the run down. I'm still trying to figure out the best approach given the materials I've got. (Shameless plug to a post I made earlier: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=205481)

I'll look over some of the earlier stuff and will check back later. Good luck in the mean time!

edit: manners

[eliztudorr]

@dailytrouble

Thanks for taking the time to give me the run down. I'm still trying to figure out the best approach given the materials I've got. (Shameless plug to a post I made earlier: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&t=205481)

I'll look over some of the earlier stuff and will check back later. Good luck in the mean time!

uhhhh his name is daily double lol but we all refer him to DD <-----he's awesome seriously. almost like God of LSAT. anyways

I took a course before started self-studying. so im gonna take a stab at answering your question. i took the testmasters course when i first started and find it a okay fundamental builder. it gave me an overview of what the heck the test is even about. but i must say, i was lost the entire time taking the course. things didn't start making sense till the past 2 wks when i started self-studying on a more intense level, along with this thread.

i used the bibles, and MLSAT guides for self-study and all the PTs because i ran out of questions group by type when i did hw along with the live course which i regret..should have saved them instead of rushing through them when i had no idea what i was doing. im a slow learner...so the test didn't click in my mind until 2 months after i was done with the course..i know, what the hell is wrong with me.

id suggest you use the blueprint course book's question by type (that would be equivalent to other's Cambridge bundle) for drilling before you start PTing. i don't know much about their lesson videos, but honestly testmasters didn't teach much on the deeper sense on HOW TO APPROACH QUESTIONS. it was really really basic. i think for approach, MLSAT's guides did the best...PS is a good fundamental builder. ok i got sidetracked again....im gonna make a list instead..

LR
1) watch lesson video but don't dwell on it. refer to PS when you don't understand a certain type of questions. drill the questions by type as you go.
2) since you are pretty intuitive with the LR i guess you can go ahead and read the MLSAT. one thing though, MLSAT's types may be different from BP's (it certainly is with TM) so id read MLSAT after i run through ALL TYPES just so i can easily refer back to certain types and stay on the same page
3) start PTing like mad

LG
1) do a game then check answers and figure out the inferences. THATS SERIOUSLY THE KEY TO THE WHOLE LG THING. BP should have it by type so just work through them by type keep in mind which type you might have the most problem with. try to practice per game within 8 min at first.
2) most people on this forum uses 7sage.com 's LG explanation if we get stuck on what is the inference. or you can post it up here and people will help you with specific questions
3) after you are comfortable with most types start doing by sections. here's when you start trying to lower the time you spend on each game.
4) personally i didn't really use PS for LG because LG is actually my best section.

RC
ummmmmm this one is a tough one..im still trying to study this..so i will leave this one to others. but i think its just keep practicing and im sure BP has LOADS of practice so just do them. Most people on here suggested MLSAT, which i bought and skim through really fast. it did give me some ideas to approach but i think because of my ESL language issue, RC is going to be tough no matter what for me.

with only 3 months left...i think you need to try to finish all basic fundamental building in this month and start PTing to build endurance the last 2 months.

im sure others will have better suggestions than me because im still struggling through the test.


edit: oops i thought you had MLSAT LR rather than MLSAT LG. my bad. well MLSAT LG is pretty good. use it to learn strategies and develop your strategy because it doesn't have much practice.

[hannnahbb]

.

[crazyrobin]

I know a mysterious lsac robot, Josh Playboy, he is seriously the God father. He knows not only how dinosaur extincts, but also tricks test taker to hallucinate the wrong answer. I hear people saying he will take over lsac soon!!! And the fact that lsac's website went down contests this.


Lol I am bored with LSAT. But does lsac have robot? I doubt they do.

[hannnahbb]

I know a mysterious lsac robot, Josh Playboy, he is seriously the God father. He knows not only how dinosaur extincts, but also tricks test taker to hallucinate the wrong answer. I hear people saying he will take over lsac soon!!! And the fact that lsac's website went down contests this.


Lol I am bored with LSAT. But does lsac have robot? I doubt they do.

umm what