Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

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defdef
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Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby defdef » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:10 pm

As title says, I scored a 170 in June which was about 4 points below my average PT score for tests 39-64. The main area where I think I lost out on was that usually I am very successful (-0) at LG but need to focus. It was my first section and I couldn't really concentrate due to nerves for the first 10 minutes or so. As a result, the last 3 questions were complete guesses.

I think I will be less nervous the next go around, but I could definitely be faster at the LG and I do consistently miss a couple on LR anyway.

My question is that, my wife just bought me the Powerscore Bibles, and I see that they are credited here as being great resources. With a month and a half left of study opportunities, would my time be well spent increasing my speed and LR-skills with use of the LR/LG Powerscore Bibles or should I just continue to take earlier PTs and time myself harder?

I work full time, so prioritizing my study time is a high.. well.. priority. Thanks, any advice is appreciated.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby NoodleyOne » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:17 pm

No reason you can't do both, even with limited study time. Waiting this long to start probably isn't ideal, but it's the hand you're playing so let's go with it.

For a 170, I really wish you would get the Manhattan LSAT LR Strategy Guide over the LR Bible. Depending on where your faults are, the LR guide is just the tits when it comes to LR. The LG Bible is good and even as a solid LG guy worth a look, as my diagramming did get better by going through it. Still, despite that the LR Bible is pretty good (especially the formal logic section). Both are worth looking through. And of course, PT your ass off until the test.

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Pathika
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby Pathika » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:45 pm

I would ask, first, why you are retaking. I don't know what your GPA is, but a 170 is a good score and, for all but 5 schools, the difference between a 170 and a 174 is going to be negligible because, either way, you'll be at or above median. And, of those 5 schools, they will, if not officially average your scores, definitely look at the fact that you have two reportable scores.

Unless you are looking at Yale or Harvard only, I would probably spend your time ensuring your PS is flawless and your recommendations are exceptional. Because of the decreased number of applicants, a lot of T14 schools are taking people with lower numbers, and a 170 is much more coveted nowadays than it was two years ago.

Also, just because your "average" was 4 points higher doesn't mean that it will translate into 4 points when you retake. I taught the LSAT and, with near 100% certainty, all my students scored below their average. Usually just 1 to 2 points below, but, there is a big difference between taking a timed test under exact conditions when you, as the student, know that the score you will receive has no actual impact on your future. The actual exam is different and you will most likely not score your "average", especially because at the 170+ level, it is literally all a matter of one or two questions. a -7 on one exam may be a 172 and on another it may be a 176. So, don't think that studying more and retaking will automatically mean you are going to get your 4 points back.

Retaking is fine if you were testing in the 175 range and got a 165 but, if you've already scored a 170 on an actual exam, the gains that you can get from retaking and getting a 174 are marginal and, as I said before, you'll be better off making sure the rest of your application is spotless.

LargeNinCharge
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby LargeNinCharge » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:57 pm

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Last edited by LargeNinCharge on Thu Nov 29, 2012 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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relevantfactor
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby relevantfactor » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:03 am

--ImageRemoved--

"If you have belief in your abilities to climb a mountain, run a marathon or ace the LSAT you set your mind to then your action will be decisive and full of energy and passion. This means you will “make it happen” by leveraging the resources you need to make the goal a reality. Which ultimately leads you to the results you want."

Just a quote... might be relevant to you. Retake and aim for that 180! Good luck!

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CardozoLaw09
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby CardozoLaw09 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:07 am

relevantfactor wrote:--ImageRemoved--

"If you have belief in your abilities to climb a mountain, run a marathon or ace the LSAT you set your mind to then your action will be decisive and full of energy and passion. This means you will “make it happen” by leveraging the resources you need to make the goal a reality. Which ultimately leads you to the results you want."

Just a quote... might be relevant to you. Retake and aim for that 180! Good luck!


+1

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defdef
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby defdef » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:45 am

Thanks Noodley and others for help and motivation! I'll give the Manhattan guide a look.

Pathika wrote:I would ask, first, why you are retaking. I don't know what your GPA is, but a 170 is a good score and, for all but 5 schools, the difference between a 170 and a 174 is going to be negligible because, either way, you'll be at or above median. And, of those 5 schools, they will, if not officially average your scores, definitely look at the fact that you have two reportable scores.

Unless you are looking at Yale or Harvard only, I would probably spend your time ensuring your PS is flawless and your recommendations are exceptional. Because of the decreased number of applicants, a lot of T14 schools are taking people with lower numbers, and a 170 is much more coveted nowadays than it was two years ago.

Also, just because your "average" was 4 points higher doesn't mean that it will translate into 4 points when you retake. I taught the LSAT and, with near 100% certainty, all my students scored below their average. Usually just 1 to 2 points below, but, there is a big difference between taking a timed test under exact conditions when you, as the student, know that the score you will receive has no actual impact on your future. The actual exam is different and you will most likely not score your "average", especially because at the 170+ level, it is literally all a matter of one or two questions. a -7 on one exam may be a 172 and on another it may be a 176. So, don't think that studying more and retaking will automatically mean you are going to get your 4 points back.

Retaking is fine if you were testing in the 175 range and got a 165 but, if you've already scored a 170 on an actual exam, the gains that you can get from retaking and getting a 174 are marginal and, as I said before, you'll be better off making sure the rest of your application is spotless.


Thanks - your advice isn't without merit, but I have a 2.8 GPA so every LSAT point counts. LSN and other posters here agree that with a 172+ I can significantly improve my chances of admittance into splitter friendly schools such as NU or UVA.

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defdef
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby defdef » Thu Sep 20, 2012 10:36 am

bumping my thread because even though i'm testing better and finished both Powerscore Bibles which I felt helped on formal logic and perfecting my LG diagramming, i'm still feeling some jitters about retaking

if i do score lower than a 170, is that going to be detrimental, should i just ED UVA right now and cross my fingers (and toes) or should i stop thinking like that and retake the shit out of the october lsat?

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RCinDNA
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby RCinDNA » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:21 am

defdef wrote:bumping my thread because even though i'm testing better and finished both Powerscore Bibles which I felt helped on formal logic and perfecting my LG diagramming, i'm still feeling some jitters about retaking

if i do score lower than a 170, is that going to be detrimental, should i just ED UVA right now and cross my fingers (and toes) or should i stop thinking like that and retake the shit out of the october lsat?


Just curious on one point. You mentioned being married; have you been out of school for long while working or did you just start working? They do take work and life experience into account on an application, and older students who have been out of school for years who achieve a 170 are in a different situation from a younger person who has gone straight from undergrad to studying full or semi-full time for the LSAT. You may be able to use this on your application to get an advantage in which case a 170 might be all you need to get some $$$.

Anyway, even if you ED UVA and get rejected, you could still re-take, get a higher score and re-apply - generally, schools tend to look favorably on higher scores or some compelling life change when reviewing a second application. But many generally just look at the highest score now, even though a downward trend on a second attempt might drag down your app overall. At the risk of sounding like a broken record, have you asked around the Admissions Forum?

There is a certain amount of strategy that should go into preparing your overall application and strategy on the schools' end when reviewing it for possible acceptance, and while numbers help, it isn't an exact science. If that were the case, every 180 scorer would have their pick of schools with full financial rides, but this clearly isn't what happens. It would suck for you to put in the time to get a 172, just to get accepted for less money, because you applied ED but waited until some of their money was given out before your app was complete, versus applying now with a 170 and realistically being more competitive since you are applying earlier.

Just my 2 cents.

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UtilityMonster
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby UtilityMonster » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:34 am

Retaking a 170 is not a bad idea at all. I mean, it could look back if you drop below a 170 on the second go around, which is totally a possibility and happens to a number of retakers. However, rest assured that at least one school that wants to maintain its 170 median will accept you even if you have a drop.

If you get 1 more point, you will be at many schools' 75th percentile. Obviously if you score 173 up you are looking at many other options, and a lot more money.

I had horrible nerves the first time I took the LSAT and was much more relaxed the second time around and saw a 5 point improvement. It is totally possible.

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cahwc12
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Re: Retaking October Lsat (170 in June)

Postby cahwc12 » Thu Sep 20, 2012 11:44 am

defdef wrote:bumping my thread because even though i'm testing better and finished both Powerscore Bibles which I felt helped on formal logic and perfecting my LG diagramming, i'm still feeling some jitters about retaking

if i do score lower than a 170, is that going to be detrimental, should i just ED UVA right now and cross my fingers (and toes) or should i stop thinking like that and retake the shit out of the october lsat?


I'm in a similar boat. I felt like nerves got the better of me in June, was PTing in your area, and ended up with a 168 as a result. Even with a 170 I'd retake no question because, for one, the curve is unlikely to be as unforgiving as -10 again, and for two, because I just know I'm better than a 168 or 170. It doesn't reflect the work I've put into crushing this test, nor does it reflect my abilities or PT performances.

And at least for me, knowing both that I've now taken it before and that 168 is my floor (170 in your case) will go along way toward alleviating those test day anxieties.

Be confident in yourself, and kick the shit out of it in October.

The ROI on that $170 registration might be somewhere on the order of six figures in scholarship.




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