Extended Time

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:25 am

Has anyone received it? I have during UG, and all I needed was a Dr.'s note. I plan to call LSAC tomorrow. I read LSAC's policy and it seems like you need to undergo a ton of testing. Is this covered under insurance? Would I be able to do this in time for the Feb. test? I have a documented mental illness, and my registered with disability services at my college. After I found the right medication, I had a 3.5, 3.6, 3.75, 4.0, 3.75. I wrote an addendum to my top school about not being aware of LSAC extended time, but that I had registered with my school. I have tried ADD medications for my disorder, but they always lower my score. Right now, I am at the median of my top school, above at my safeties, and slightly below the LSAT at other schools (1-3 pts) while at or above the GPA median.

I am really discouraged about the state of things right now, and would really appreciate any support or insight. My average was 5 pts higher than my actual test, and I feel like an idiot right now. 99th percentile IQ when proctored in 2nd grade, 96th+ SAT without studying, so I am not stupid. I did study for the LSAT, but I have a medical condition which impacts my concentration and focus in a serious manner. I never scored lower than a B in an in class test, with 3/4 of those being A-/A. I would really like to hear back from people with similar experiences. I'm really down right now.

User avatar
eaper
Posts: 663
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 10:31 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby eaper » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:49 am

Most people PT higher than they actually score on the test. Everyone has testing nerves. Also, did you develop this after taking the SAT? If you could do well on the SAT, I don't see any reason why you couldn't do well on the LSAT after practice. The testing conditions are pretty much the same from my experience =\ Anyways, if you are at the median LSAT score of your top school (assuming you have a GPA to match), you shouldn't be worrying too much.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:08 am

eaper wrote:Most people PT higher than they actually score on the test. Everyone has testing nerves. Also, did you develop this after taking the SAT? If you could do well on the SAT, I don't see any reason why you couldn't do well on the LSAT after practice. The testing conditions are pretty much the same from my experience =\ Anyways, if you are at the median LSAT score of your top school (assuming you have a GPA to match), you shouldn't be worrying too much.


Bipolar disorder tends to become most severe in young adult hood, not at 16. I took the SAT at 16, and the time restraints aren't as serious. Bipolar tends to hit hardest 18-25, based on what my doctors say. I think the LSAT is longer. I wasn't allowed to smoke during the break either. I had a 2140 on the SAT, advanced on all PSSAs, a genius IQ on a proctored grade school exam. My concentration has worsened as the bipolar progressed, and I've struggled finding the right medications.


I wasn't nervous during the LSAT, but I could not focus. The PTs were done in sections, usually 3 then a smoke break. The actual one was a much higher curve than the one I took.

My main question is, can I get extended time, and how long would it take for me to get them? If I had 7-9 minutes a section, I would be in a much better position.

My LSAT is 2 below my top school, with my GPA at median. I am bummed because I KNOW I am better than what I got. And if I received the same help I did during my last year at undergrad, I could get a better score.

How likely will it be to get extended time, is it worth it, and should I write an addendum?

User avatar
princeR
Posts: 308
Joined: Mon Dec 05, 2011 4:10 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby princeR » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:11 am

Dude, I feel for you, but didn't you take that IQ test in 2nd grade? Maybe I'm just jelly because I'm not a genius but idk, I just find that piece of evidence you keep posting pretty funny. Regardless, I really do understand, I don't think it's fair at all.

HBK
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby HBK » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:12 am

How does bipolar disorder affect your ability to take a test? It sounds like you're looking for an unfair advantage.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:19 am

princeR wrote:Dude, I feel for you, but didn't you take that IQ test in 2nd grade? Maybe I'm just jelly because I'm not a genius but idk, I just find that piece of evidence you keep posting pretty funny. Regardless, I really do understand, I don't think it's fair at all.


The IQ test is just a bit different than the LSAT. For instance, it would state "fill this shape with x shape, shape b with shape c, shape c with shape d," etc. Like I said, bipolar disorder tends to manifest in young adulthood. For me, it started when I was 17 drastically. The IQ is a bit different than the LSAT. The point I guess is that I took an objective tests in the past that state I am competent, except for the LSAT. My in class tests were meant to be finished during class. I really am not trying to be a dick, but I honestly scored a genius IQ in school as part of a gifted program.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:22 am

HBK wrote:How does bipolar disorder affect your ability to take a test? It sounds like you're looking for an unfair advantage.


There is a huge liklihood that those with bipolar disorder also have ADD. Hypomania and mania have the same concentration impact as ADD. I'll read something and completely drift off. I completely understand the material when I have more time, but I start thinking about traffic on the way out, when I need to go to work, etc. It's hard to explain. But it does have an impact. I have extended testing time in UG, when I need it. If the school agrees to it, why won't LSAC?

Thanks for the responses, I appreciate the discussion.

User avatar
tooswolle
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:48 am

Re: Extended Time

Postby tooswolle » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:22 am

HBK wrote:How does bipolar disorder affect your ability to take a test? It sounds like you're looking for an unfair advantage.


+180

As someone who knows people with disorders who manned up to take the test this is kind of looking for an unfair advantage. You may have scored well on the SAT but this test is curved on the results of college graduates, many of whom have normal to high iq's. Also curious how does bi polar disorder affect testing? I can see add, ADHD and panic disorders..but bi polar?

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:34 am

duplicate post. my computer is acting up, sorry!
Last edited by 89vision on Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 1:38 am

89vision wrote:
tooswolle wrote:
HBK wrote:How does bipolar disorder affect your ability to take a test? It sounds like you're looking for an unfair advantage.


+180

As someone who knows people with disorders who manned up to take the test this is kind of looking for an unfair advantage. You may have scored well on the SAT but this test is curved on the results of college graduates, many of whom have normal to high iq's. Also curious how does bi polar disorder affect testing? I can see add, ADHD and panic disorders..but bi polar?


Like I said, hypomania and mania result in the same concentration issues as ADD and ADHD. I have tried ADD medications, but they slow my thought down way too much.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/19153 ... hypomania/

http://www.bipolardisordersymptoms.info ... ration.htm

https://askjan.org/media/Bipolar.html

Here are three sites of many that link bipolar disorder to lack of concentration. It's basically ADD+mood swings. I know a lot of people don't understand bipolar disorder, but in my doctor has recommended additional time during tests and assignments because of serious lack of concentration. Bi polar disorder impacts most aspects of everyday life, and a lot of people don't understand it. My doctor is currently considering whether I also have ADD, as I can not get through an entire class, can not focus on the discussion, take unneccessary risks, etc etc. I took ADD meds, but they make me feel stupid. Bipolar typically culminates during adolescents and young adulthood. Again, IQ tests are structured differently than the LSAT and SAT's. I am not making excuses. I have a chronic disorder that my school recognizes, and want to know how to approach LSAC about this. Thanks again.

Fyo'Couch
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:38 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby Fyo'Couch » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:17 am

89vision wrote:I really am not trying to be a dick, but I honestly scored a genius IQ in school as part of a gifted program.


This sounds like something Will Ferrell would say in a movie while trying to pick up chicks.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:32 am

Fyo'Couch wrote:
89vision wrote:I really am not trying to be a dick, but I honestly scored a genius IQ in school as part of a gifted program.


This sounds like something Will Ferrell would say in a movie while trying to pick up chicks.


Well, I'm not trying to pick up chicks on this site. My point is, I have the ability, but the conditions prevent me from demonstrating my capabilities. I would like to hear some useful comments, not people who are trying to sound funny on an online forum to people they will never meet. I specifically asked for help, not comments from people who think they are cool because they post snippy comments lacking actual humor. I have an issue, and I need genuine help. I am trying to show I'm not an idiot, I am not bragging in any way. Please only leave helpful comments, I am not trying to start shit on a fucking internet forum.

User avatar
tooswolle
Posts: 491
Joined: Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:48 am

Re: Extended Time

Postby tooswolle » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:41 am

Since you're looking for advice here it is. The fact that your school allowed for extra time is irrelevant. Schools are not as demanding or as miticulous as lsac. So you can't compare one to the other. You may feel you warrant extended time and so may your Dr. If you guys are willing to get this done; you'll need to show incontrovertible prOof that the medical condition warrants additional time. Lsac will do it, if it's there; but be prepared to fight I've read stories of people who were blind not getting a reasonable accommodation (online can't remember where but you can probably google it) hope that helps. On one last note the score will have an asterisk and from what I've read wont be scaled along with the rest of takers. Best of luck

HBK
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby HBK » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:42 am

Have you considered that there are lots of people who suffer from undiagnosed or not-LSAC-approved "mental disorders" which affect their test performance? Anxiety, depression, etc., could really affect preparation and test-day performance. Why should you have an advantage? You likely won't get extra time on law exams or special accommodations at a firm.

Additionally, you have a good GPA, but said you were allotted extra time on the exams. Is it possible that your GPA is due to the extra time you received rather than your intelligence? It seems like you haven't been on a level playing field for four years- this is what the LSAT attempts to do- level the playing field.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:51 am

HBK wrote:Have you considered that there are lots of people who suffer from undiagnosed or not-LSAC-approved "mental disorders" which affect their test performance? Anxiety, depression, etc., could really affect preparation and test-day performance. Why should you have an advantage? You likely won't get extra time on law exams or special accommodations at a firm.

Additionally, you have a good GPA, but said you were allotted extra time on the exams. Is it possible that your GPA is due to the extra time you received rather than your intelligence? It seems like you haven't been on a level playing field for four years- this is what the LSAT attempts to do- level the playing field.


Depression is part of bipolar disorder, as is anxiety. Bipolar is a combination of depression, anxiety, hypomania, and mania, as well as mild ADD. From my research, I could get disability in law school.

I actually never used extended time during UG. The reason is most UG tests are meant to be finished well under the 3 hours allocated. I never spent more than an hour on an in class essay. In class tests are not the issue, because they give 3 hours for an exam meant to take 1-2 hours, if that makes sense. They basically give more time than is needed. No one in those classes took the entire time.

The LSAT usually doesn't accommodate those of us who need extra time.

My question is whether it's worth the fight. I just graduated and don't have a source of income to pay for all the tests stated on LSAC's website. Is there a way around this? I didn't get disability until the last semester of college, which equated to a one week extension on a final paper, and excused absenses. Law schools don't get a special letter from my school to reconsider my GPA because I received help during 1 semester.

Thanks for the help, I'm new to this. I didn't get disability until my last semester, and just graduated (with honors), and don't know the next step.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 2:55 am

tooswolle wrote:Since you're looking for advice here it is. The fact that your school allowed for extra time is irrelevant. Schools are not as demanding or as miticulous as lsac. So you can't compare one to the other. You may feel you warrant extended time and so may your Dr. If you guys are willing to get this done; you'll need to show incontrovertible prOof that the medical condition warrants additional time. Lsac will do it, if it's there; but be prepared to fight I've read stories of people who were blind not getting a reasonable accommodation (online can't remember where but you can probably google it) hope that helps. On one last note the score will have an asterisk and from what I've read wont be scaled along with the rest of takers. Best of luck


Thanks for your kind words. Do I need to write addendum's?

IGotMy170
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:32 am

Re: Extended Time

Postby IGotMy170 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:00 am

These arguments are showing up everywhere on this site now.

Here is my basic philosophy. You won't get special treatment as a professional in the courthouse, why get it on the LSAT?

Fyo'Couch
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 06, 2011 7:38 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby Fyo'Couch » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:03 am

89vision wrote:
Fyo'Couch wrote:
89vision wrote:I really am not trying to be a dick, but I honestly scored a genius IQ in school as part of a gifted program.


This sounds like something Will Ferrell would say in a movie while trying to pick up chicks.


Well, I'm not trying to pick up chicks on this site. My point is, I have the ability, but the conditions prevent me from demonstrating my capabilities. I would like to hear some useful comments, not people who are trying to sound funny on an online forum to people they will never meet. I specifically asked for help, not comments from people who think they are cool because they post snippy comments lacking actual humor. I have an issue, and I need genuine help. I am trying to show I'm not an idiot, I am not bragging in any way. Please only leave helpful comments, I am not trying to start shit on a fucking internet forum.


Language, madam. Perhaps a little humility would serve you better in your purposes, rather than citing prepubescent accomplishments. Also, you are unlikely to garner much sympathy when you already scored near the median for your target school. This in itself demonstrates your "capabilities." We all have our difficulties, impediments and so forth -some more documented and severe than others - however you haven't demonstrated that this specifically led to your presumed minimally sub-par performance. It could easily have been factors that leads tens of thousands of test takers to under perform every year - lack of sleep, lack of focus, nerves etc. We are all affected by this - diagnosed mental disorder or not. Additionally, I have no idea how you would prove that it was your mental disorder specifically, and not the normal range of human emotions and circumstances that impacted your score. Given your strong GPA and presumably strong LSAT performance, my "advice" would be to stop worrying about a situation that many would find enviable (your competitiveness to law schools, not your medical issue).

Good luck to you.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:04 am

IGotMy170 wrote:These arguments are showing up everywhere on this site now.

Here is my basic philosophy. You won't get special treatment as a professional in the courthouse, why get it on the LSAT?


You have proper time to prepare for an argument in court. It's not limited to 35 minute sections. If you need overtime, you can use it.

IGotMy170
Posts: 15
Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2012 2:32 am

Re: Extended Time

Postby IGotMy170 » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:07 am

89vision wrote:
IGotMy170 wrote:These arguments are showing up everywhere on this site now.

Here is my basic philosophy. You won't get special treatment as a professional in the courthouse, why get it on the LSAT?


You have proper time to prepare for an argument in court. It's not limited to 35 minute sections. If you need overtime, you can use it.


I'm not sure if you're understanding that MOST people feel extremely rushed on the LSAT, which is why people miss problems.

For instance, I missed 7 on the RC on this test (13 overall) and 5 of those were due to running out of time. Did I run out of time because I have a mental illness or did I run out of time because they made the RC very difficult to finish on purpose? If they give you an hour to finish the reading comprehension it would be a joke, regardless of your mental capacity. Given an hour, even stupid people would ace the RC. Same for the LG sections. It is very easy to work through the LG problems and get them all right with unlimited time.

The fact is that giving extra time on the LSAT just completely ruins the whole point of the LSAT.

User avatar
89vision
Posts: 431
Joined: Sun Oct 09, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby 89vision » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:22 am

Fyo'Couch wrote:
89vision wrote:
Fyo'Couch wrote:
89vision wrote:I really am not trying to be a dick, but I honestly scored a genius IQ in school as part of a gifted program.


This sounds like something Will Ferrell would say in a movie while trying to pick up chicks.


Well, I'm not trying to pick up chicks on this site. My point is, I have the ability, but the conditions prevent me from demonstrating my capabilities. I would like to hear some useful comments, not people who are trying to sound funny on an online forum to people they will never meet. I specifically asked for help, not comments from people who think they are cool because they post snippy comments lacking actual humor. I have an issue, and I need genuine help. I am trying to show I'm not an idiot, I am not bragging in any way. Please only leave helpful comments, I am not trying to start shit on a fucking internet forum.


Language, madam. Perhaps a little humility would serve you better in your purposes, rather than citing prepubescent accomplishments. Also, you are unlikely to garner much sympathy when you already scored near the median for your target school. This in itself demonstrates your "capabilities." We all have our difficulties, impediments and so forth -some more documented and severe than others - however you haven't demonstrated that this specifically led to your presumed minimally sub-par performance. It could easily have been factors that leads tens of thousands of test takers to under perform every year - lack of sleep, lack of focus, nerves etc. We are all affected by this - diagnosed mental disorder or not. Additionally, I have no idea how you would prove that it was your mental disorder specifically, and not the normal range of human emotions and circumstances that impacted your score. Given your strong GPA and presumably strong LSAT performance, my "advice" would be to stop worrying about a situation that many would find enviable (your competitiveness to law schools, not your medical issue).

Good luck to you.



Well, first off, I had 3 bags, 2 klonopin, and 8 drinks, so this may be a little non coherent. But, I can't sit through tests. Bipolar is linked to concentration and focus issues, based on the links.

My question is whether I should talk to LSAC. Everyone that is bipolar has at least mild ADD. When I have additional time, I kill the LSAT. When I have normal time plus nicotine, I can get 5 points higher than my score. My top school is 3 LSAT points above mine. I was scoring up to 8 points higher. Bipolar is linked to ADD like concentration issues. Those don't manifest until about 18-25. I am in a bad time frame for mental illness. In second grade, this wasn't an issue. In college, it is. Before I was medicated, I had a 3.2 and 3.0, which killed my GPA. Then my worst GPA was 3.5. Is that worth an addendum?

I am not trying to bitch and moan, but bipolar is very much like ADD. Should I try to talk to LSAC? I really want some scholarships, and if I had 5 extra minutes a section, I would be able to overcome my bipolar issues. Bipolar causes issues like ADD. Whether manic or depressive, concentration is lacking, which starts about 17/18 until mid 20s.

I appreciate the feedback, and all the kind words. I don't know what to do. I am really upset that I can't replicate my average PT. Is it worth talking to LSAC? My school helped me so much this semester, because I had insomnia and mood swings, changed meds, and it was basically hell. Bipolar disorder sucks haha.

Any more advice? I don't know if I should send an addendum. I had a drug and alcohol C&F addendum also.

The extra time has to be reasonable. They wouldn't give me an hour to complete the RC. More like an extra 3-5 minutes. If I weren't Bipolar 1, I would be ADD. My doctor is currently giving me ADD meds though, and considering if I have ADD. A much higher number of bipolar individuals have ADD!


Again, thanks for the replies, I appreciate the feedback! I don't want to start a debate, but I want to figure out if I can talk to LSAC and get extended time, like my school already has given me (without sending law schools a buyer beware!).

Thanks again.

HBK
Posts: 493
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:29 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby HBK » Fri Jan 06, 2012 3:50 am

89vision wrote:When I have normal time plus nicotine, I can get 5 points higher than my score.


Well there's your answer. Try dipping or Snus.

User avatar
breadbucket
Posts: 170
Joined: Thu Dec 08, 2011 10:57 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby breadbucket » Fri Jan 06, 2012 4:00 am

Why wouldn't you just wear a nicotine patch?

kertz
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:02 am

Re: Extended Time

Postby kertz » Fri Jan 06, 2012 11:21 am

89vision wrote:

Well, first off, I had 3 bags, 2 klonopin, and 8 drinks, so this may be a little non coherent. But, I can't sit through tests. Bipolar is linked to concentration and focus issues, based on the links.

My question is whether I should talk to LSAC. Everyone that is bipolar has at least mild ADD. When I have additional time, I kill the LSAT. When I have normal time plus nicotine, I can get 5 points higher than my score. My top school is 3 LSAT points above mine. I was scoring up to 8 points higher. Bipolar is linked to ADD like concentration issues. Those don't manifest until about 18-25. I am in a bad time frame for mental illness. In second grade, this wasn't an issue. In college, it is. Before I was medicated, I had a 3.2 and 3.0, which killed my GPA. Then my worst GPA was 3.5. Is that worth an addendum?

I am not trying to bitch and moan, but bipolar is very much like ADD. Should I try to talk to LSAC? I really want some scholarships, and if I had 5 extra minutes a section, I would be able to overcome my bipolar issues. Bipolar causes issues like ADD. Whether manic or depressive, concentration is lacking, which starts about 17/18 until mid 20s.

I appreciate the feedback, and all the kind words. I don't know what to do. I am really upset that I can't replicate my average PT. Is it worth talking to LSAC? My school helped me so much this semester, because I had insomnia and mood swings, changed meds, and it was basically hell. Bipolar disorder sucks haha.

Any more advice? I don't know if I should send an addendum. I had a drug and alcohol C&F addendum also.

The extra time has to be reasonable. They wouldn't give me an hour to complete the RC. More like an extra 3-5 minutes. If I weren't Bipolar 1, I would be ADD. My doctor is currently giving me ADD meds though, and considering if I have ADD. A much higher number of bipolar individuals have ADD!


Again, thanks for the replies, I appreciate the feedback! I don't want to start a debate, but I want to figure out if I can talk to LSAC and get extended time, like my school already has given me (without sending law schools a buyer beware!).

Thanks again.


Maybe you should shy away from "bags" and "drinks." Look, I have been diagnosed with bipolar disorder too.

I don't mean to say that everyone is affected by bipolar similarly and that if I could do it this way then so can you. I also think you're entitled to do whatever you want for your score, and I'm not the type of person to care whether or not other people get "unfair advantages." To everyone jumping on this guy, just focus on yourself, that's what is most important.

All that said, given my experience with bipolar disorder, if you can get yourself to be on an online forum posting about how to best take the LSAT, planning on how you're going to get a good score, and have the ability to sit down and take practice tests on your own, then you can study for it without help. Bipolar disorder becomes debilitating when it constantly drives you off into the streets at midnight freaking out about suicidal thoughts or when your mania drives off everyone close to you. Not when you feel a time crunch on the LSAT.
Last edited by kertz on Tue Feb 28, 2012 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
TommyK
Posts: 1309
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:08 pm

Re: Extended Time

Postby TommyK » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:10 pm

Came here hoping for PhilosophyKing. Disappointed...




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Alexandros and 4 guests