In desperate need of advice

John1986
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In desperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:34 pm

I took the LSAT 3 times. I had taken it cold (stupid, I know) (143) and then studied really hard for a year. I would test at 154-157 consistently but on actual test day I would just freak out..I could swear the girl next to me heard my heart beat each time I tested.

I scored a 149 the next time and then cancelled for the last. I graduated at a legal studies major with a 3.57 from a private college (93 credits) but 5 years prior attended a community college (27 credits) and did terrible. LSAC configured my GPA at a 3.04. I have also been a legal assistant at a real-estate attorney’s office for two years making 35k a year and trying to pay off undergrad and cc debt.

Now I have applications pending for the NY area and being 25 years old, I feel pretty defeated. I understand that going to a 3rd or 4th tier school will bring a lot of debt and not so many job opportunities. I want to be an attorney so bad and would love to practice criminal law in NY.

The next LSAT I could take would be February 2013 and since it is so late in the cycle, if I decided to wait..it could mean waiting 2 cycles. I know that I scored well below my potential and I would be open to studying differently and doing whatever I needed to do to raise my score but waiting two cycles..

My question is..Should I try and just get in for this fall or study and try again for a hopeful scholarship? Is it possible for me to raise my score enough after taking all prior tests? I am so torn

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 12:40 pm

There is no school worth attending that will accept a 149.

You need to deal with those debilitating anxiety issues before pursing law school. What do you think is going to happen in a law school exam where your entire grade for the class is based on one 4-hour essay? You're going to panic and freeze up and get terrible grades. Terrible grades from a bad school...you might as well just take out a loan for $150,000 in cash and burn it in your front yard.

Take some time off, get a job, possibly get some therapy or drug treatment for the anxiety. Then you can return to the law school track in a couple of years (ideally wait long enough for one or more of those crappy scores to expire). It won't be too late--I'm going to enter LS at age 33.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:00 pm

Thanks for the comment. If I decide to wait..like I said, I am not eligible to retake until Feb 2013..Do you think I should start studying now? Should I take a course now? I mean it is a year away but I want to be able to significantly raise my score..Also, I have seen a lot of prior tests which makes it hard to take full exams for practice..

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:04 pm

I don't think you should start studying at all until you get your emotional reactions under control. What's the point in knowing the material at a 157-level if you're just going to panic again?

flcath
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby flcath » Tue Dec 27, 2011 1:10 pm

I hate to do this (and I'll try to be nicer than most people who do this in these threads), but maybe you should do something other than LS. I'm a 2L, and even as a "well-suited" applicant--i.e., someone who could get into a decent LS with a scholarship but couldn't do much else in the world (3.2gpa / 172 lsat)--I think it's kind of a TTT profession. The high-end of the profession (biglaw) has long hours and looks boring/pointless as fuck; the low-end of the profession looks more interesting/meaningful but the pay is shit.

Tbf, my basis for comparison is medicine, which is what I really wanted to do. Still, I'd look at getting a 149 (or even a 157, or whatever) as a great excuse to walk away from this line of work, which is something I wish I'd done even with a much better score.

Just a thought; I'm really not trying to be elitist.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:25 pm

I know this is not an easy profession by any means. I know that receiving a law degree does not automatically lead to a life of fulfillment and financial stability...I understand this. After reading so much about how bad this profession is over the last few months, I wish I was one of these people that was unsure about wanting to go to law school and could just abandon the idea, but I cannot.

I have wanted this for the longest time and completed my undergrad knowing it was just a prerequisite to enter law school. I interned in college at a few law firms and have been a legal assistant for two years; I have just always wanted to be an attorney.

It was not for a lack of studying that left me with such a disgusting score. I obviously need to think about things and if I were to wait, study very differently. I will do what I need to do to accomplish my goals.

Thank you for your feedback.

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JoeMo
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby JoeMo » Tue Dec 27, 2011 2:50 pm

Man the combination of a 3.04 and a 149 doesn't leave you with very good prospects.

Try to get yourself a job that will pay the bills for a few years and then retake in 2013. I don't think even with great addenda you'd do so well at this point in the game.

Azmatt
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Azmatt » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:11 pm

I feel for you... My october test... my heart was pounding through my chest. You could literally see the fabric move up and down with my heart beat. I think it was actually a panic attack.

I tried to say calm. Screwed up the first two sections badly, but recollected and managed a 160.

I didn't do too much studying. I had been getting 167s to 173s on practice tests.. I knew I had it in me. But, I kept getting in my own way, much like you. It's a crushing feeling.

It's an awful feeling knowing that you're your own worst enemy because you're completely aware of the situation at the worst time.

... Try and fall back on some sort of structure. A little ritualization can transform some of that nervous energy into focus. As silly as it sounds, make a routine.

Check watch. Align it at 30degree angle. Take three deep breathes. Focus on spot on wall. Breathe out bad energy. Focus on your heartbeat with your eyes closed. etc etc. etc. blah blah blah. However you do it, it can help slow your mind down and your heartrate.

That's what I had to do. We'll see if it worked on the December test. I felt that it did. Lucked out on having my experimental as the first game, unlike in October when I started with the real game. I wish I would've developed this method a little better tbh. I kind of just winged it the last few days before and forced myself to calm down..

Msg me when the scores come out and i'll let you know if it worked....



.. or you can just get 'scribed for beta-blockers.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:24 pm

Thanks for the posts. I am definitely thinking about taking a beta blocker and waiting a cycle. I took a small course at Pace Law School but I am thinking of trying power score this time around...

Yes, I know the numbers are against me. The GPA thing well...I obviously cannot help that at this point, I am just paying for my past with that one...93 credits with a 3.6 and 27 with a sub 2...3.04...yeah it sucks.

The LSAT however, I can change, take a cycle off and study to get into a better school. I need to address these anxiety issues and then try and get into a power score course I guess.. I have heard such good things about PS. It is a little frustrating that I have read so much material and therefore taking practice tests will not really give me a good idea of where I would be at this point...

I have to figure out a way to study from now until then without burning out since it is almost exactly a year away..

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 3:28 pm

Azmatt,


Thanks for the detailed reply, I really appreciate it. Yes, it is so frustrating..I would get lost in sections that I would always do well in..It is very disheartening to work so hard for something and defeat yourself and then look like an idiot on a forum like this..but hey, I guess it may give me time to save money and the opp. to get a score I feel like I deserve.

Thanks,
John

jrd43
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby jrd43 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 4:49 pm

John1986,

Like others, I strongly encourage you to think long and hard about the real-world consequences of going to law school with your GPA and LSAT score. And, I can't stress enough how much I urge you to view law schools' claims about their graduates' career and income prospects skeptically.

Your question here has caught some attention on another blog, Inside the Law School Scam. You should check it out at Inside the Law School Scam[dot]blogspot[dot]com (without the spaces; for some reason, this page won't let me post the blog name without the spaces). You might want to check out the comments there, if only to get as many perspectives on your situtaion as possible.

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:36 pm

Any reason why you don't want to go to a law school that would take you with your scores, such as Cooley, CUNY, Touro or probably even NYLS? A JD from those schools plus passing the bar would allow you to work as a lawyer.
Last edited by Rorassy on Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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JoeMo
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby JoeMo » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:38 pm

Rorassy wrote:Any reason why you don't want to go to a law school that would take you with your scores, such as Cooley? A Cooley JD plus passing the bar would allow you to work as a lawyer.


FLAME!

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:40 pm

JoeMo wrote:
Rorassy wrote:Any reason why you don't want to go to a law school that would take you with your scores, such as Cooley? A Cooley JD plus passing the bar would allow you to work as a lawyer.


FLAME!


I edited to add other schools that would take those numbers. Could he get into NYLS, Pace, Hofstra or St. Johns? There are a ton of law schools in the NYC area.

Any way, I would still like to know why he doesn't want to go to one of these schools.

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Errzii
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Errzii » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:44 pm

Rorassy wrote:
JoeMo wrote:
Rorassy wrote:Any reason why you don't want to go to a law school that would take you with your scores, such as Cooley? A Cooley JD plus passing the bar would allow you to work as a lawyer.


FLAME!


I edited to add other schools that would take those numbers. Could he get into NYLS or Pace?

Any way, I would still like to know why he doesn't want to go to one of these schools.


This guy is obviously struggling at least a little financially. None of those schools are even remotely sound investments and it's not like he would get any money with those numbers.

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:46 pm

I would like to know what he says. Does he have a cutoff of school rank?

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 5:59 pm

I initially wanted to attend Pace Law School. If I got accepted I would attend because it is very close to my home. I have applications in at CUNY Queens, NYLS, Hofstra, Pace and Touro. I said if I did not get in anywhere and was accepted to Touro I would go..thinking about the debt I would acquire without a scholarship makes me pretty sick.
Most of all, I feel as though I have not proven to myself that I can get a good score on the LSAT. I am my biggest obstacle and I really want to get a score that reflects the time and dedication that I put into studying. I would love to attend a T1 or T2 school and obviously that will not happen right now.

I have a lot of things I need to decide in the next few months. I want a really good law education and I want to have a nice job and I do not want to leave NY. I also do not want to be embarassed to say the lawschool I went to..I guess I have some decisions ahead of me. Part of me thinks just go for a school if they accept you and the other side says go to a school that you feel will make you happy to attend..I just do not know..

Money def. is an issue or atleast it would be after graduating lawschool and having to pay 120k + but I want to be an attorney..I really do.

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:04 pm

Well then you're going to law school, because there's no way Touro is turning you down.

John1986
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby John1986 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:05 pm

Wow they really did use my post..




inside the law school scam (dot) blogspot (dot) com
Last edited by John1986 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:11 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:07 pm

John1986 wrote:I initially wanted to attend Pace Law School. If I got accepted I would attend because it is very close to my home. I have applications in at CUNY Queens, NYLS, Hofstra, Pace and Touro. I said if I did not get in anywhere and was accepted to Touro I would go..thinking about the debt I would acquire without a scholarship makes me pretty sick.
Most of all, I feel as though I have not proven to myself that I can get a good score on the LSAT. I am my biggest obstacle and I really want to get a score that reflects the time and dedication that I put into studying. I would love to attend a T1 or T2 school and obviously that will not happen right now.

I have a lot of things I need to decide in the next few months. I want a really good law education and I want to have a nice job and I do not want to leave NY. I also do not want to be embarassed to say the lawschool I went to..I guess I have some decisions ahead of me. Part of me thinks just go for a school if they accept you and the other side says go to a school that you feel will make you happy to attend..I just do not know..

Money def. is an issue or atleast it would be after graduating lawschool and having to pay 120k + but I want to be an attorney..I really do.
Absolutely, positively do NOT go to Touro. Unless you have an uncle with his own law firm who has GUARANTEED you a job upon graduation, do not go to any of those schools. You have very bad odds of getting a legal job at all, let alone a full-time, JD-required firm or government agency position.

See the thin blue sections of the graphs on the left end? Those are the people the gamble worked out for.
--LinkRemoved-- <= this may be the worst LST graph I've seen yet. Jesus.
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--
--LinkRemoved--

1. Deal with your anxiety.
2. Get good score on LSAT
3. Get into decent law school (i.e. none of the above)

If you really try and really can't get through steps 1 and 2, then you need to think of a different career path. I understand that you really really really want to be a lawyer, but we don't all get what we want. I really really (no, seriously) wanted to be an astronaut, but I'm realistic. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to adjust your goals.
Last edited by rinkrat19 on Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Errzii
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Errzii » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:11 pm

If you're really willing to spend six figures to go to any law school may I suggest first spending some money toward LSAT prep of some kind? Even the most expensive courses/tutors are like 2k tops and could very easily help increase your score by 10 pts or more. That way you have at least more reasonable options. In the grand scheme of things, that prep money will really be nothing compared to how much you will be investing into law school.

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:12 pm

Don't be a downer rinkrat. he'll be in the blue line. He's already working in a law office as it is, so there's no way he can do worse than that.

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rinkrat19
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby rinkrat19 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:14 pm

Rorassy wrote:Don't be a downer rinkrat. he'll be in the blue line. He's already working in a law office as it is, so there's no way he can do worse than that.
I'm curious as to why you're so bent on encouraging innocent people to throw away their money.

c3pO4
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby c3pO4 » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:14 pm

Dude, this is a sign not to go to law school. Many times people have to re-evaluate their goals based on reality. Pursuing this dream just because our system of federal loans allows all of us to take out money we have no hope of paying off will make you just another victim and there is no way, no way, absolutely no way, you will not regret your decision to go to law school for the rest of your life. Consider yourself lucky, and just move on. 25? You are so young. Just do something else.

Rorassy
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Re: In deperate need of advice

Postby Rorassy » Tue Dec 27, 2011 6:17 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:
Rorassy wrote:Don't be a downer rinkrat. he'll be in the blue line. He's already working in a law office as it is, so there's no way he can do worse than that.
I'm curious as to why you're so bent on encouraging innocent people to throw away their money.


Don't be a downer. He has a job lined up after graduation and he wants to be a lawyer. All he has to do is pass the bar.




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