Hand Scoring

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moneybagsphd
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Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:59 pm

Hey all,
I remember that immediately following the LSAT many of us were concerned about possibly mis-bubbling. We prodded LSAC to find out their policy on hand scoring, but no two people seemed to get the same answer. The LSAC representative I spoke with over the phone gave me a noncommittal response. From what I've heard, it seems to be left to the grader's discretion when to award/deduct points. Still, I thought it might be useful to collate TLSers experience with hand grading to help other's get a sense of how LSAC processes these requests.

Anyone who has experience with the hand grading process, your input would be appreciated.

My experience (October 11): I got a 169 with a raw of 87, just one correct answer away from a 170. After looking through my Item response sheet, I was surprised to find that I was missing an answer to the last question of RC. It turns out that I am (apparently) really bad at bubbling in answers, and I skipped a row and put my answer to that question in the row below. The correct answer.I mailed in my petition to have my test hand scored today with a brief explanation of the problem (I attached a copy of my answer sheet with relevant area highlighted). I spoke with an LSAC representative over the phone yesterday evening to see if LSAC would credit me the point. The only objection she gave me was that it could've been the answer to a subsequent question. This doesn't apply in my case since it is the last question of the section and all of the previous questions are answered (in fact all of the 100 other questions are answered). Anyways, I will let you know how this goes
Last edited by moneybagsphd on Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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drmguy
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby drmguy » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:06 pm

My money says they won't change it.

Hand scoring is supposed to fix machine error and the machine didn't make an error.

The only circumstances I have heard it will make a difference is if you have a bubble that is too light for the machine to count but dark enough for a person to allow it and when a stray mark causes the machine to mark it wrong when a hand scorer thinks the mark is insignificant or possibly not caused by you.

Btw...I did hand scoring for an answer that was erased but not erased enough. The correct bubble was filled in the same way all other answers were filled in but they felt that I didn't erase the incorrect one enough.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:13 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:Hey all,
I remember that immediately following the LSAT many of us were concerned about possibly mis-bubbling. We prodded LSAC to find out their policy on hand scoring, but no two people seemed to get the same answer. The LSAC representative I spoke with over the phone gave me a noncommittal response. From what I've heard, it seems to be left to the grader's discretion when to award/deduct points. Still, I thought it might be useful to collate TLSers experience with hand grading to help other's get a sense of how LSAC processes these requests.

Anyone who has experience with the hand grading process, your input would be appreciated.

My experience (October 11): I got a 169 with a raw of 88, just one correct answer away from a 170. After looking through my Item response sheet, I was surprised to find that I was missing an answer to the last question of RC. It turns out that I am (apparently) really bad at bubbling in answers, and I skipped a row and put my answer to that question in the row below. The correct answer.I mailed in my petition to have my test hand scored today with a brief explanation of the problem (I attached a copy of my answer sheet with relevant area highlighted). I spoke with an LSAC representative over the phone yesterday evening to see if LSAC would credit me the point. The only objection she gave me was that it could've been the answer to a subsequent question. This doesn't apply in my case since it is the last question of the section and all of the previous questions are answered (in fact all of the 100 other questions are answered). Anyways, I will let you know how this goes


Good luck! I hope they change it for you, however I doubt they will. In June 2011, I went from a 178 to a 169 because I skipped a row and bubbled the last 11 or 12 questions... all my answers were correct and corresponded to the question before it, and it was clear what I did as there was a blank row in the middle of the page... but they still told me to suck it.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:17 pm

Yeah, it is interesting that the LSAC rep I spoke with-- and from what others have said about their inquiries, I'm not alone-- seemed to imply that points could be awarded for this sort of mistake.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:17 pm

Also, both of you definitely deserved credit for those points. Bummer.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:18 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:Yeah, it is interesting that the LSAC rep I spoke with-- and from what others have said about their inquiries, I'm not alone-- seemed to imply that points could be awarded for this sort of mistake.


Well, would you have been as friendly as you were if she had told you they couldn't do anything for you? I think the reps just give you all roses and carnations because they don't want to be the bearers of bad news.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:19 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:Also, both of you definitely deserved credit for those points. Bummer.


It's all good... I got a 177 this time around. Although, I should have had a 178 because I didn't answer question 13 on section one... just left it blank... and it was games... I haven't missed a games question on an LSAT... EVER.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:21 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Yeah, it is interesting that the LSAC rep I spoke with-- and from what others have said about their inquiries, I'm not alone-- seemed to imply that points could be awarded for this sort of mistake.


Well, would you have been as friendly as you were if she had told you they couldn't do anything for you? I think the reps just give you all roses and carnations because they don't want to be the bearers of bad news.

Yeah, but this was before scores were released, when I was considering canceling.

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ScrabbleChamp
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby ScrabbleChamp » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:26 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Yeah, it is interesting that the LSAC rep I spoke with-- and from what others have said about their inquiries, I'm not alone-- seemed to imply that points could be awarded for this sort of mistake.


Well, would you have been as friendly as you were if she had told you they couldn't do anything for you? I think the reps just give you all roses and carnations because they don't want to be the bearers of bad news.

Yeah, but this was before scores were released, when I was considering canceling.


How did you know you skipped the last row on the exam if you didn't have your score/pdf's back?

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue Oct 25, 2011 4:28 pm

ScrabbleChamp wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:
ScrabbleChamp wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Yeah, it is interesting that the LSAC rep I spoke with-- and from what others have said about their inquiries, I'm not alone-- seemed to imply that points could be awarded for this sort of mistake.


Well, would you have been as friendly as you were if she had told you they couldn't do anything for you? I think the reps just give you all roses and carnations because they don't want to be the bearers of bad news.

Yeah, but this was before scores were released, when I was considering canceling.


How did you know you skipped the last row on the exam if you didn't have your score/pdf's back?

Something didn't sit right with me when I left the testing center. I had a hunch that I was off by one on one of my answers

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Oct 28, 2011 3:57 pm

Update: My score has been removed and all of the icons are grey again. Exactly what this means, I'll just have to wait and see.

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IamIn
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby IamIn » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:12 pm

Hi! I've made exactly the same mistake on the test just in different section! Sent my handscoring request two days ago. Please let me know how everything goes! Also, I believe raw score of 88 is 170 not 169.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:29 pm

IamIn wrote:Hi! I've made exactly the same mistake on the test just in different section! Sent my handscoring request two days ago. Please let me know how everything goes! Also, I believe raw score of 88 is 170 not 169.

Whoops, you're right. I meant 87. Hopefully, 88 soon.

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IamIn
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby IamIn » Fri Oct 28, 2011 8:47 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
IamIn wrote:Hi! I've made exactly the same mistake on the test just in different section! Sent my handscoring request two days ago. Please let me know how everything goes! Also, I believe raw score of 88 is 170 not 169.

Whoops, you're right. I meant 87. Hopefully, 88 soon.



I have 88. Hopefully, 89 soon...

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Jeffort
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby Jeffort » Sat Oct 29, 2011 9:07 am

moneybagsphd wrote:Update: My score has been removed and all of the icons are grey again. Exactly what this means, I'll just have to wait and see.


If you clearly described the misgridding mistake in the handscore request paperwork you submitted and it matches up with how you described it and what is on your answer sheet, I think there is a decent chance LSAC will correct your mistake and adjust the score. Of course that is up to their discretion. Hand score decisions are made on a case by case basis based on the hard copy papers along with the details submitted in the request.

I'm aware of several misgridding instances where LSAC was understanding/forgiving and fixed the mistake(s) a test taker made on the bubble sheet. There are also instances where they didn't fix mistakes a student made and/or the score was lowered because a bubble(s) the scoring machine registered weren't actually filled in sufficiently to satisfy the regulations (such as an oval not filled in enough and/or another bubble not erased well enough to make the selection distinct), so the hand score person took away the point because the answer choice selection was ambiguous or there was a -fill in the bubbles properly or at least good enough- student failure.

To have a good chance of getting a misgridding mistake fixed you have to describe the specific mistake accurately and the evidence on the answer sheet has to match up with the facts/details claimed in the request.

LSAC is fair and understanding regarding a legit single misgridding/row offset/brainfart mistake that is strongly corroborated by the description in the request and the other evidence/papers/reports they have. Once you submit the request they have somebody thoroughly review the handscore request with human eyes and the relevant papers in hand (that does not include the test book, the hand grader does not look at or consider what you marked/circled in the test booklet). If there is a problem due to not filling an oval in enough or having two bubbles in the same row marked enough to be registered by the machine and/or appear to be an ambiguous either/or/both AC situation because one wasn't erased enough, hand scoring will not provide any relief.

Regarding how much a bubble needs to be filled so it is registered by the scoring machines and/or will be credited if hand scored, check this out (questions 13 through 18), guess how the machine scored it and contemplate how you would score it if you were the person assigned to hand score/judge the answer sheet according to the established rules you would be bound by as a hand scorer.

The image is a clip of the real test day answer sheet of a student I worked with that had some bubbling mistake issues both times she took the test. Things worked out with a great reported score from her retake but there were several bubbling issues/mistakes both times that she freaked out about and had LSAC investigate.

Image

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Sat Oct 29, 2011 3:04 pm

Jeffort wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Update: My score has been removed and all of the icons are grey again. Exactly what this means, I'll just have to wait and see.

There are also instances where they didn't fix mistakes a student made and/or the score was lowered because a bubble(s) the scoring machine registered weren't actually filled in sufficiently to satisfy the regulations (such as an oval not filled in enough and/or another bubble not erased well enough to make the selection distinct)

I'm a little worried about this. I'm really bad at gridding answers in, and there are a number of questions that the machine graded correctly where I erased another answer choice, but there is still some grey residue left over. Another bubble is not erased well enough? Certainly, my answer choices are bubbled in much darker than the erased answers.

Does anyone know how long I can expect the process to take?

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Jeffort
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby Jeffort » Sat Oct 29, 2011 7:59 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Update: My score has been removed and all of the icons are grey again. Exactly what this means, I'll just have to wait and see.

There are also instances where they didn't fix mistakes a student made and/or the score was lowered because a bubble(s) the scoring machine registered weren't actually filled in sufficiently to satisfy the regulations (such as an oval not filled in enough and/or another bubble not erased well enough to make the selection distinct)

I'm a little worried about this. I'm really bad at gridding answers in, and there are a number of questions that the machine graded correctly where I erased another answer choice, but there is still some grey residue left over. Another bubble is not erased well enough? Certainly, my answer choices are bubbled in much darker than the erased answers.

Does anyone know how long I can expect the process to take?


Don't worry about the ones with residue/a grey smudge left over from erasing. It's normal for there to be some residue and a slight smudge left behind after erasing a spot unless you wash and bleach the paper. As long as you erased the other bubble by rubbing over the entire oval thoroughly/decently well, it wont be an issue even though you can still see that another bubble had been filled in. Multiple marks in the same row problems are typically because a placeholder mark (like a little dot, scribble, partially filled in bubble) made before answering the question and filling in a different bubble wasn't erased before time was called.

Turn around time for hand scoring is typically about 7 to 10 days, but your mileage may vary since somebody has to retrieve your papers from the LSAC documents warehouse and forward them to the person that conducts the answer sheet review. I've heard of instances where it was done in as little as four business days and others that took up to two weeks.

Hang in there and be patient, LSAC is not a bunch of evil demons set out to torture people and ruin their lives.

I'm sending good vibes Image and rooting for you Image, especially since there is something much more sexy about a 170 than a 169 and you seem to have a good case for a courtesy adjustment.

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Lemon Lyman
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby Lemon Lyman » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:07 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
Jeffort wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:Update: My score has been removed and all of the icons are grey again. Exactly what this means, I'll just have to wait and see.

There are also instances where they didn't fix mistakes a student made and/or the score was lowered because a bubble(s) the scoring machine registered weren't actually filled in sufficiently to satisfy the regulations (such as an oval not filled in enough and/or another bubble not erased well enough to make the selection distinct)

I'm a little worried about this. I'm really bad at gridding answers in, and there are a number of questions that the machine graded correctly where I erased another answer choice, but there is still some grey residue left over. Another bubble is not erased well enough? Certainly, my answer choices are bubbled in much darker than the erased answers.

Does anyone know how long I can expect the process to take?


Same thing happened to me on RC. After handscoring, they changed it from 169 to 170. I submitted the request Monday and heard back Friday morning.

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:53 pm

Jeffort wrote:I'm sending good vibes Image and rooting for you Image, especially since there is something much more sexy about a 170 than a 169 and you seem to have a good case for a courtesy adjustment.

Thanks for the support! This makes me feel much better. :mrgreen:

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Sun Oct 30, 2011 4:54 pm

Lemon Lyman wrote:Same thing happened to me on RC. After handscoring, they changed it from 169 to 170. I submitted the request Monday and heard back Friday morning.

Great news! Congrats!

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IamIn
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby IamIn » Sun Oct 30, 2011 9:40 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
Lemon Lyman wrote:Same thing happened to me on RC. After handscoring, they changed it from 169 to 170. I submitted the request Monday and heard back Friday morning.

Great news! Congrats!


wow! that's great! I am a little happier now :D I sent my request Wed. can't wait to hear back. Lemon Lyman, did they email your new score to you or how does it work?

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Jeffort
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby Jeffort » Sun Oct 30, 2011 10:50 pm

moneybagsphd wrote:
Jeffort wrote:I'm sending good vibes Image and rooting for you Image, especially since there is something much more sexy about a 170 than a 169 and you seem to have a good case for a courtesy adjustment.

Thanks for the support! This makes me feel much better. :mrgreen:


Hopefully you'll get an email tomorrow on Halloween that is a treat.

In the meantime I suggest gobbling up a bunch of snickers bars since they are hands down the best candy bar that exists and a great comfort snack. Plus, try not to spook/scare to death the young kids too much! Just dress up as a big LSAT answer sheet and cruise the neighborhood, that should be sufficient to scare them. I'm pretty sure Kinkos can blow one up big enough to wrap around yourself. To add the final touch you would just need to get a friend to dress up as a #2 pencil and stand next to you! :lol:

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Lemon Lyman
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby Lemon Lyman » Mon Oct 31, 2011 11:42 am

IamIn wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:
Lemon Lyman wrote:Same thing happened to me on RC. After handscoring, they changed it from 169 to 170. I submitted the request Monday and heard back Friday morning.

Great news! Congrats!


wow! that's great! I am a little happier now :D I sent my request Wed. can't wait to hear back. Lemon Lyman, did they email your new score to you or how does it work?



They emailed me without the score saying "your October 2011 LSAT documents are now available under the LSAT tab in the LSAT Status section of your LSAC online account." I logged in to my LSAC account and there was the updated score.

Best of luck, I'm rooting for you!

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moneybagsphd
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby moneybagsphd » Tue Nov 01, 2011 2:51 am

Lemon Lyman wrote:
IamIn wrote:
moneybagsphd wrote:
Lemon Lyman wrote:Same thing happened to me on RC. After handscoring, they changed it from 169 to 170. I submitted the request Monday and heard back Friday morning.

Great news! Congrats!


wow! that's great! I am a little happier now :D I sent my request Wed. can't wait to hear back. Lemon Lyman, did they email your new score to you or how does it work?



They emailed me without the score saying "your October 2011 LSAT documents are now available under the LSAT tab in the LSAT Status section of your LSAC online account." I logged in to my LSAC account and there was the updated score.


Best of luck, I'm rooting for you!

Just got the same email. They updated my score too. Best of luck!

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Jeffort
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Re: Hand Scoring

Postby Jeffort » Tue Nov 01, 2011 7:07 am

moneybagsphd wrote:
Lemon Lyman wrote:
IamIn wrote:
Lemon Lyman wrote:Same thing happened to me on RC. After handscoring, they changed it from 169 to 170. I submitted the request Monday and heard back Friday morning.


wow! that's great! I am a little happier now :D I sent my request Wed. can't wait to hear back. Lemon Lyman, did they email your new score to you or how does it work?



They emailed me without the score saying "your October 2011 LSAT documents are now available under the LSAT tab in the LSAT Status section of your LSAC online account." I logged in to my LSAC account and there was the updated score.


Best of luck, I'm rooting for you!

Just got the same email. They updated my score too. Best of luck!


Congrats! (assuming they adjusted it up one point not down! lol)




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