10 weeks to a 180 Forum

[calexhg88]

I´m about to plan out the next 5 weeks. I got 5 untouched PTs (if Oct 2011 gets released), 40 online tutorials, Kung Fu podcasts, a couple books, and the rest of the Kaplan material. It´s getting real dudes.

its soo real now! Hyper-ventilate every time I think about Dec 3rd. did you already go through the PS Bibles? if so, was there a major difference after?

I took a 10-week Kaplan course in Aug and Sept and I still have access to all the materials, so I have primarily just been using that.

The main thing that has helped me is looking through this forum and seeing what applies to me. I´ve recently reached out to some other sources, like the Kung Fu podcasts and the PS LR bible (which I have not yet read). I realized that some of the methods taught in the Kaplan course don´t apply to me. Doing this has really helped me and definitely responsible for the really high scores I´ve been seeing lately.

And yes, I have seen a major difference. Often the method that works best for you won´t correspond exactly with whatever source you´re using, you know? From switching to 10-end then 1-9 on LR, from Kung Fu´s analysis on types of language to look for, and from all the inspiration and good vibes from the TLS forum , I´ve take my score from mid-160s to low 170s in 4 weeks. Granted, I was making dumb mistakes in September like going through every single answer choice, but still all of these other sources played no small role in getting me out of bad habits such as these.

[Jeffort]

Granted, I was making dumb mistakes in September like going through every single answer choice, but still all of these other sources played no small role in getting me out of bad habits such as these.

I think you reversed the idea of what is good strategy by saying that going through all answer choices is a bad habit. Other than LG must be true/false and a few other LG Q types or questions in other sections you have to race through when in a time crunch, not reading and considering all five answer choices is a bad habit that guarantees you will be disappointed when scores are released.

[tonton]

And yes, I have seen a major difference. Often the method that works best for you won´t correspond exactly with whatever source you´re using, you know? .

I do know! the PS LR Bible's method of diagramming formal logic, is beginning to confuse my understanding of conditional reasoning, and they advise against using Venn diagrams for formal logic, which I used to do before. Not sure if its too late to completely change my method.

I hope this helps you somehow 180, if not, then feel free to kick us..me out

[calexhg88]

Granted, I was making dumb mistakes in September like going through every single answer choice, but still all of these other sources played no small role in getting me out of bad habits such as these.

I think you reversed the idea of what is good strategy by saying that going through all answer choices is a bad habit. Other than LG must be true/false and a few other LG Q types or questions in other sections you have to race through when in a time crunch, not reading and considering all five answer choices is a bad habit that guarantees you will be disappointed when scores are released.

i disagree. the method has only failed me once in the past 4 wseeks, and in that instance the answer i picked was clearly wrong and i should have checked the other choices. if the answer is not wrong, its right. and as kaplan says, there is always one right answer and four wrong ones. of course if im not sure i check the others. but why check the others when i know my first choice was right, that is not only a huge waste of time, it could also lead you to change your first answer.

[180asBreath]

"but why check the others when i know my first choice was right"

Because your rate of "knowing your first choice is right" is not 100%, and your rate of "identifying the right answer and the four wrong answers" can be 100%.

I'm loving the discussion! There is no way this thread can be hijacked; talk about any and everything you desire!

Onward fellow December takers!

[hyakku]

"but why check the others when i know my first choice was right"

Because your rate of "knowing your first choice is right" is not 100%, and your rate of "identifying the right answer and the four wrong answers" can be 100%.

I'm loving the discussion! There is no way this thread can be hijacked; talk about any and everything you desire!

Onward fellow December takers!

Exactly. I see your mindset is changing. It's about being able to know why you're answer is 100% correct, and the others are 100% wrong. To be honest, this sounds extreme (but so are your goals), but for every 100 LR questions, by the time I felt like I was in "optimal form" (still won't know until I get these results) I would say that I couldn't figure out why one answer was 100% correct and the others weren't maybe 5-8 times out of 100. I wish I had gotten it done to 0-2 times, because that's when you can nearly guarantee your -0-2 on LR.

My internet is spotty right now 180, so I can't hit you up often, but hopefully you're keeping up with the daily reading (I meant to tell you, you can space these out, one in the morning over breakfast, one at lunch, one at dinner, or whatever) and doing that exercise at the end of them. Drilling the LR types and getting those 4x4 responses down into rote memory should hopefully be drastically recognizing your identification and pattern recognization abilities and also showing you where your weaknesses are (if you find one of the questions are difficult for you, that's a key area that needs to be worked on, whether its IDing assumptions, why it's wrong, or important words, etc.).

Also, you should be doing the post it strategy for RC when you are drilling untimed (cover the answer choices and answer before looking). You can also even attempt to do the ones that say, "The author would be most likely to agree with which one of the following..." by just referring back to the passage and choosing 4-5 things that the passage likely references. At first you may not get it, but after a while you'll become more adept at extracting EXACTLY the type of information the test makers are going to be asking, BEFORE you are even done reading. Nice.

Furthermore, I haven't talked much on games, as it's difficult to know what your exact strategy is, but if I recall you are at a consistent -0 - 2, so work on getting that down to -0, and if you are struggling with any type of thing with games, let me know, and I'll see if I can get you some help there.

[Jeffort]

Granted, I was making dumb mistakes in September like going through every single answer choice, but still all of these other sources played no small role in getting me out of bad habits such as these.

I think you reversed the idea of what is good strategy by saying that going through all answer choices is a bad habit. Other than LG must be true/false and a few other LG Q types or questions in other sections you have to race through when in a time crunch, not reading and considering all five answer choices is a bad habit that guarantees you will be disappointed when scores are released.

i disagree. the method has only failed me once in the past 4 wseeks, and in that instance the answer i picked was clearly wrong and i should have checked the other choices. if the answer is not wrong, its right. and as kaplan says, there is always one right answer and four wrong ones. of course if im not sure i check the others. but why check the others when i know my first choice was right, that is not only a huge waste of time, it could also lead you to change your first answer.

You are entitled to have that opinion, but your ultimate reported score will suffer if you stick with it.

Basic logic dictates that if you do not evaluate all available options you cannot know which one is correct aside from some LG questions and a few LR deductive logic question types if you did not make any mistakes. This is true in part because LSAT questions (especially LR and RC) are filled with attractive/sucker answer choices that are incorrect but sound/feel correct on first glance without critical logical analysis or that trap you if you made a reading/interpretation mistake(s). The way you deal with uncertainty and/or detect errors in your reading and analysis is by analyzing all five answer choices.

Remember, it is a multiple choice logic, reasoning and reading comprehension test. There is no reason not to read all of the answer choices on questions you have time to attempt.

180asBreath is coming around, seeing and learning from the faults in his previous ways, if you want to improve your potential score range, you should too.

[180asBreath]

"180asBreath is coming around, seeing and learning from the faults in his previous ways, if you want to improve your potential score range, you should too."

Thanks, man. My final score is more important to me than my pride.

hyakku, thanks - man. I'll have something to send to you in a bit.

RC is (pretty) good now that I'm not notating; I always read all 4 passages and I fully comprehend the passages. I'm going to drill with 8min RC passages for awhile.
LG is just 200 practice games away from being 100% confident in my consistent ability to get -0.

It's funny, while I felt like LR was my rock - a few weeks ago - now I see this as the area I need to conquer. It constitutes half of my score and it IS possible that I get to the point where I'll be pissed with a -4 (combined) on LR.

When I get to that point, I'll be consistently in the 170's and sometimes in the mid 170's; this is where I need to be.

[hyakku]

Gonna agree with everything Jeffort says. It just makes sense. But I'm already committed to 180 so it's up to you whether you want to listen to him or not other guy, but he's only telling you these things to help you out.

180, I'm leaving work so my internet's dead for a bit longer, but I'm glad to hear that you're making that realization. I underestimated the importance of LR for a while too, but once I made that key realization and really started cracking down on it I entered the 170s with relative ease. Here's to hoping you will find the same occurs.

Also, with RC, it's good to start trying to get your timing down, but if I can, let me suggest slightly changing that strategy. I understand you want to not lose speed, but at the same time when you are going through answer choices right now I want you focusing on being accurate and understanding the testmakers desires, not just on speed. For this reason I'd suggest timing your READING / notating of the passage, and then stop your timing once done, and proceed to drill by covering the answer choices, and using the post it method. This way, you can tell if you need to slow down/ speed up your reading (I aim for roughly 3 - 4 minutes a passage, depending on what it is/ content), while simultaneously getting the benefit of that "deeper" understanding needed to master the test.

I think that once you understand their thinking and your timing for reading the actual passage is predictable, you won't spend NEARLY as much time on the answer choices. In this sense, ironically, not training for speed alone actually INCREASES your ability to be speedy, but more important, ACCURATELY speedy.

[180asBreath]

Oh, I hear you - good post.

With RC, I actually cover the ACs with my hand, come up with the answer in my head (a mental post-it), and then look for the AC that matches my prephrase - while marking why each incorrect AC is wrong.

When I notated, I took 4+ minutes to read a passage and I barely comprehended it do questions took me a long time. I worked on timing with my tutor, today, and read 2 passages in <2:30 on each (one was science) and did most questions in under 45 seconds.

Let me ask you this: for LR question types, do you think it would be helpful for me to create note cards so I develop that muscle memory that you have (e.g. See strongly supported and think: inference, middle language, etc)?

Could you provide that so I could memorize them before testing myself (through the 4x4) or should I make my own cards from the velocity book?

Thanks!

[hyakku]

My internet seems to be back up, although it might crash again so if it does this post will end up truncated cuz I'm not typing all of this again lol.

In any case, with RC I think you can be a bit flexible as some people can read quickly, others less so. So I think it's good that you are calibrating and seeing for yourself, the most important thing is making sure that while your drilling untimed you are covering those ACs and really diving into the minds of the test takers.

Another thing with RC, i notice in my friend that I'm tutoring that she notates a lot in RC and is having similar timing issues. When I reviewed her tests what she considered, "light notation" was, at least to me, extreme amounts of notation. It took me less than a second of looking at the first passage she marked to tell that her timing issues stemmed from poor notation. I think someone put up a good guide here I'll try to find, but basically I now use something similar to the LSATblog (I think) method in which you are just writing V1 for Viewpoint 1, and two or three words (i.e., V1 = IP laws = ineffective, V2 = IP laws = well intentioned or something, just coming off the top of my head), replacing the number obviously for each viewpoint, E1 next to any evidence in the paragraph that supports V1 and similarly E2 for V2,etc. Finally, A = Advocates, so A1 = advocates of viewpoint 1, A2 = advocates of Viewpoint 2.

In this manner you can notate without having to really stop reading AT ALL, (writing E1 and a small line next to the line takes less then a second), and while you aren't WRITING alot, mentally you are situation the passage in your mind and locking the structure down so that you know where to refer back to. Something to realize is that in RC, you need to get comfortable going back to the passage. I know it sounds crazy, and i thought it was too when I first heard it, but that's how you get points accurately and quickly. In order to be able to do this efficiently, you need a system (whether its mental or involves notating matters not) that allows you to efficiently and quickly locate the vital information they consistently ask of you. I think maybe this type of notation (v1, e1, a1) with little writing may work well for you and lend itself perfectly for this goal of becoming efficient in locating things in the geographical sense in RC.


For LR, the girl I'm working with ironically just asked me the same (whether she could write down the 4 x 4). Ideally once you have a good grasp on this (a week and a half or so of solid drilling got most of the tenants down for me, again though, I was in crunch time and thankfully you have more time) you will be doing it all mentally, but I see no reason why you shouldn't be writing it down now. In fact, I think that it may be better in that you'll force yourself to really think through the answer and will be less likely to want to look at the answer (once you invest a shit ton of time writing out all that info, most people won't cop out and look at the answer without spending a lot of time trying to figure it out).

I'm not sure what else you want me to provide though, I'm giving you my soul here

[180asBreath]

That's funny, just today, we were talking about going back to the passage. I do do it, but not nearly as much as I should; the two I missed (out of the 17 q's on the passage) were because I didn't go back to the passage. After all of my practicing with notating, I'm able to find parts of the passage super quick.

With the LR, I just meant that I probably won't be able to produce all of those little nuances - that I can expect X from a correct flaw answer and Y from an incorrect one, etc. But it's all good; I think the biggest help is from doing the last 4 and really working on my recognition and dissection of the argumentation. I'm OK at that, now, but I have to get great at it. This will help!

[180asBreath]

I got my first 170! Despite missing two guesses on LR1, I missed only 6 for a 174! I'll update when I get a chance.

[180asBreath]

I'm pretty excited to "start" tomorrow. 5 whole weeks until the test and I've never felt more confident. The car ride to the library, I just felt so confident; knowing that I could do all 4 passages, due to not notating, was a huge boost. I was feeling like I could get a mid170 score, even though I've never had a 170. When I was that I only missed 6 and wrote down that it was a 174, I got choked up and a tear almost escaped my eye. It's pathetic that it means this much, but it's been a year-long battle where I've known that I need a 170+ and never even coming close to it.

My previous best was -12 and now it is -6. When I think about all the time I have to really practice prephrasing, all the time to do about 30 more RC passages, drilling every game by type, learning the nuances of each LR question type - I just get so excited!

I got my first -0 on LR and that felt really good. If nothing else, I now know that no matter what happens - I can walk in there and destroy it. Before, I believed that I had it in me - but now I KNOW that I do!

[hyakku]

That's the feeling I got the first time I broke 170 (not to jinx my gameday score lol). It's like you're starting to see the matrix once you understand the test. It's sick but you almost get excited to start kicking ass on it. I hope you're noticing the difference in your thinking already. This is why going untimed and really getting it down can really help you, despite it seeming like it hurts your timing.

Here's to hoping the other guy in this thread that was gunning for a 180 is taking notes. Someone I "know" up here has got to get a 180 before this year ends damnit.

[calexhg88]

180, I´m psyched for you dude. That´s awesome.

I, on the other hand, just did horrible on a RC section. 16/28. The worst part about it is that it was my first RC I've done in the past four weeks that I hadn't done before. Needless to say, I'm crushed.

I'm justifying it in a number of ways, but ultimately its my score and theres not much else to say. I know its always darkest before the dawn and right now its about the process not the scores. But I am seriously doubting my abilities right now.

Like you, 180, I see the LSAT as the final hurdle and a way for me to make tangible my academic and professional qualities. I'm not saying I should be a Harvard/Yale lock or anything, but I think I do deserve a spot in one of the top schools and the opportunity to pursue my career goals. When I see a score that will make such an opportunity impossible, it is absolutely demoralizing.

I want this as much as you do, 180, I've just been scared to say it, afraid that wanting it so bad might work against me.

[calexhg88]

(totally taking notes, by the way)

[180asBreath]

Thanks, hyakku. There were so many times when I had a great prephrase and I almost LOL'd at the incorrect responses. When I hear people say that the testmakers put in "traps", or that there are always two tempting answer choices - I basically laugh (even though it's what I used to say, all the time). Their incorrect answer choices are so transparent; once you start understanding what the question is really asking, as it relates to what you really need to do to/say about the argument, it is clear as day which one is right.

I also benefitted from the strategy of focusing on the wrong answers (on RC) as much as the right ones; there was a moment where I knew that 3 were clearly wrong, one seemed like it could be right - even though I didn't know it to be so (it was a structure question) - and then the last one wasn't clearly wrong, but I could see that it was wrong for good reason; so I chose the one that wasn't wrong as, again, it's not about finding a 100% correct answer choice - it's about finding the most correct answer choice. If 4 are obviously wrong, then the fifth must be the most correct - if it is not obviously wrong!

Whew, that was a mouthful. I just wanted to stress the importance of checking all AC's.

Dude, you can't be too dedicated; if that energy is turning to anxiety, it can be an impediment - but you would just need to refocus that into productive behaviors. It was only one bad section, don't sweat it; why do you think you did so poorly, though? Did you do all of the same behaviors (e.g. cover answer choices, come up with a good prephrase, eliminate incorrect AC's by crossing out the words that make it incorrect)?

But yeah, there are ups and downs; look at mine:

10/08/11 - PT 46 - LR1: -1, LR2: -2, RC: -9, LG: -0, LRexp: -5, 87/099, 167
10/12/11 - PT 47 - LR1: -2, LR2-11, RC: -2, LG: -0, LRexp: -5, 86/101, 166
10/15/11 - PT 48 - LR1: -6, LR2: -2, RC: -5, LG: -0, LGexp: -4, 88/101, 166
10/19/11 - PT 49 - LR1: -7, LR2: -2, RC: -7, LG: -1, RCexp: -9, 83/100, 164
10/23/11 - PT 50 - LR1: -5, LR2: -3, RC: -7, LG: -4, LRexp: -10, 81/100, 163
10/26/11 - PT 51 - LR1: -4, LR2: -6, RC: -4, LG: -1, LGexp: -3, 85/100, 167
10/29/11 - PT 52 - LR1: -4, LR2: -0, RC: -2, LG: -0, RCexp: -6, 93/99, 174

I was like, yay! I'm so smart! after I got -12. Then I was like, WTF - I missed 11 on one LR?!?! Then I did ok, but then I regressed back to missing 18. Then I did even worse and missed 19; that did not feel good! Then I went back to a good score, -15, and broke through the wall with a -6. This shit ain't checkers! The thing is this: we don't want to walk into the test with a 175 average because it does anything for us, we want to have mastered the test - which coincides with having a 175 average.

It doesn't matter what I do on any given section or test; all that matters is that I find the best method, approach, technique, and tactic for each section - and for the whole test. That's why I was willing to notate for so long; I figured I would eventually get to the point where I could finish the whole passage. After I saw that it wasn't going to happen, I modified my approach.

The biggest thing is that we find what will work best for us on test day; that doesn't mean we should reinvent the wheel and dismiss what everyone else does. We should just consider everything, try it all, and figure out what works best for us.

I can guarantee, as I foolishly did earlier on the thread - haha, that I will go into the December test having gotten a 180 on a PT. The test is learnable and if you are able to put in the necessary time, and are willing to learn it the "right way", you will learn it.

I have a lot of learning to do before my LR is consistently -2 (combined), I have a lot of learning (through repetition) until I haven't missed an LG in the last 100 games, and I have a lot of learning before I am consistently missing less than 2 on RC.

Dude, it's inside of us; we just have to put all the bs aside and do what it takes to bring it out. With people like hyakku and all of the other good posters, there is nothing stopping us!

[calexhg88]

thanks, 180.

it was my 4th sec of the day, i went out last night pretty hard and didnt get up til 4pm and it was pt1 so it had some weird questions on it.

still though, 16/28.

youre totally right about prepping too hard not making much sense. its definitely beneficial to take breaks, but those breaks need not be binge drinking or naptime. time to bust out my old philosophy books. dense rc passages will seem like childrens books.

im going to take one of my untouched full-lengths this week and get a real clear picture of where i am.

LET'S GO!!

[tonton]

I was like, yay! I'm so smart! after I got -12.

haha!! I think we've all had that moment! and then the next question humbles you!

So happy for you 180! Hopefully its all uphill from here!

I decided to study the test solidly for 3months before taking any fully timed PTs, so now I have 28 PTs (30 something to 63) left that I have never seen before to take fully timed. Any advise on how to go about doing this would be much appreciated!

maybe I should have taken timed tests much earlier

[180asBreath]

Yeah, that was definitely what happened to me!

Thanks, I really appreciate it.

With those PTs, if you have been practicing with those questions (in bibles or other prep materials), you have seen them! Haha.

When are you taking the test? If I could do it again, I would have done what you did sooner than what I did.

[Jeffort]

180asBreath,

Congrats about your most recent practice test score!

Make sure to keep in mind that you shouldn't let it go to your head and become overconfident/cavalier over the next several weeks since the LSAT is a relentless mistress and will punish you if you do. After I hit 170 the first time on a test-conditions environment proctored diagnostic I got really excited and figured "I've got this handled and am good to go", slacked off a bit on the intensity of study and review and got overconfident thinking I had it handled.

When I took the next test-conditions timed practice test I didn't concentrate as hard/analyze everything with the level of attention and concentration I put in on the previous one because of overconfidence/pride from the 170 and got bitch-slap smacked with a 159 practice score wake up call due to careless mistakes.

This type of thing is a common phase that capable/motivated students putting in the work go through at some point leading up to test day. If and when it happens, feel free to let some tears come out or throw a book at the wall to get the frustrations out without hurting anybody or anything. Cardio exercise helps get it out too. For me it was riding the lifecycle at least four times a week after studying.

The day before my scored test I was almost completely stress/anxiety free and danced around my apartment listening to music to kill the day because I honestly knew I had done everything I possibly could have to score well and that I only had to take one more strictly timed LSAT. My roommate was a little concerned and asked me "why are you celebrating, don't you have an important test in the morning?" I told him "Yes, it's the last one I have to take. I'm as ready as I can ever be to take it, just have to do it one last time to get it over with".

It worked, I was calm as a cucumber at the test center during the test and pulled out a score roughly eight points higher than my PT range from the previous two weeks and I think 6 or 7 points higher than my highest legit conditions practice test score.

[hyakku]

Agh jeffort reading your success just makes me more furious I've got to wait until tomorrow. The only solace I have is that both you and American in china have seemingly had identical experiences on your studying / pting and both of you broke your previous tests by 5+ points. If that somehow happens to me I could be at like a 178 or higher. This wait until tomorrow is killing me.

Oh and +1 to what jeffort said 180. I got cocky as hell after that and my next test was like a 164 my lowest pt since I had ever started prep lol. After that brought me back down to reality though it was smooth sailing, all 170+ pts. So while it's awesome to be happy, hopefully you can skip the phase me and jeffort went throughbby staying vigilante and not letting any tricks sneak up on you through arrogance.

It's funny though, because it feels good to know you know the test. I remember on octs test I almost lost it because I thought one of the games names was Kanye, and then at the end when I figured I did pretty well i started finding the assumptions in the last LR passage really funny for some reason.

(again, i better stop talking all of this shit before the LSAT gods smack me down and make me retake this nonsense. I'm off until I get my score tomorrow so I can't enrage them.)

[180asBreath]

So, how did you do???

[calexhg88]

day off yesterday, got back into into today with some LG tune up and some RC drills. Tomorrow I´m going to review some Assumption family questions. Wednesday a few RC passages and some review of previous passages. Thursday- practice PT 1/5. LETS GO!!!!!!