Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

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TrojanHopeful
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Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby TrojanHopeful » Mon Aug 08, 2011 6:51 pm

I have almost completed reading all three of the new Manhattan LSAT prep books. I have to say that I believe Manhattan is the new champ in town in terms of the best prep books available. That being said, I still found the Powerscore Bibles very useful and therefore recommend reading/working through both (there are some things that PS covers better and some things that Manhattan covers better). Just putting my thoughts out there.

Anyone else agree with me on this?

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gavinstevens
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby gavinstevens » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:35 pm

I agree. I still find PS LG strategy more than adequate though.

I must say that I used PS first and then Manhattan. Going straight to M might not work as well as supplementing PS with M.

The second edition of their LR guide is good stuff.

It might just be a matter of time before they edge out PS, for TLS at least. I just glanced at Amazon's sales rankings and PS outsells pretty much everything. Maybe they can outsell Princeton Review though.

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FlanAl
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby FlanAl » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:39 pm

I did powerscore and then manhattan and thought it worked very well.

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winning
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby winning » Mon Aug 08, 2011 7:55 pm

Has anyone used the Manhattan books on top of a Testmasters course? How do the Manhattan strategies for LR and LG compare with Testmasters strategies?

I'm currently taking a Testmasters course, but still having trouble with LG. I'm wondering if using the Manhattan books would be a useful supplement.

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby Blumpbeef » Mon Aug 08, 2011 8:48 pm

Would you recommend the 3-pack?

I've done the PS LG/LR, I didn't do RC because most people seemed to think it was a waste of time, but I'm thinking if the manhattan one is good it might be worthwhile. I was scoring between -1 and -9(or worse) on RC last time around so I can definitely use all the help I can get tightening that up.

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citygirl000
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby citygirl000 » Mon Aug 08, 2011 9:11 pm

I read PS RC, and felt like it only confused me more. I then read Manhattan RC and found it super useful - their strategy is great. Regarding the other books, I haven't read Manhattan LG because I felt like PS LG was enough. I read both Manhattan and PS LR books and both were helpful for different parts of LR sections.

dhrizek wrote:Would you recommend the 3-pack?

I've done the PS LG/LR, I didn't do RC because most people seemed to think it was a waste of time, but I'm thinking if the manhattan one is good it might be worthwhile. I was scoring between -1 and -9(or worse) on RC last time around so I can definitely use all the help I can get tightening that up.

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby TrojanHopeful » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:20 am

dhrizek wrote:Would you recommend the 3-pack?

I've done the PS LG/LR, I didn't do RC because most people seemed to think it was a waste of time, but I'm thinking if the manhattan one is good it might be worthwhile. I was scoring between -1 and -9(or worse) on RC last time around so I can definitely use all the help I can get tightening that up.


Yes, I would recommend all three books. The RC book is great and the LR and LG books are also very useful (on top of PS). For example, the sequencing method that Manhattan uses is by far more efficient than Powerscore's. Manhattan also does a much better job of covering assumption-type questions for LR.

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby TrojanHopeful » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:23 am

winning wrote:Has anyone used the Manhattan books on top of a Testmasters course? How do the Manhattan strategies for LR and LG compare with Testmasters strategies?

I'm currently taking a Testmasters course, but still having trouble with LG. I'm wondering if using the Manhattan books would be a useful supplement.


I took Testmasters as well. They provided me with a good foundation on which to build on; that being said, I believe I have really come to wholly understand the different question types in LR and different techniques for LG while self studying. As far as LG goes, I recommend getting both the Powerscore LG Bible and Manhattan's LG strategy guide. You can then tailor your own strategy to whatever works best for you. They both have excellent techniques for different types of games.

phx
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby phx » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:37 am

I used PS LG Bible and the PS LR Bible, plus the Manhattan LG book.

I looked through the Manhattan LR book but didn't find it thorough enough for me.

As far as the LG books compare, I found a mix of the two was best for me. I used the Manhattan strategy for sequencing games (the tree) and (sometimes) for In/Out grouping games (the logic chain). I used the PS strategy for everything else.

I thought that the PS sequencing game strategy was garbage. I found myself spending way too much time figuring out how to best draw the diagram instead of just visually representing the order and getting on with the questions. The Manhattan tree was much simpler and cleaner.

At times, the logic chain was a bit tedious so I sort of used my judgment when deciding to set up the logic chain or to go with pure conditional reasoning diagrams.

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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby chadbrochill » Tue Aug 09, 2011 8:47 pm

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Last edited by chadbrochill on Fri Sep 28, 2012 7:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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gavinstevens
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby gavinstevens » Tue Aug 09, 2011 9:54 pm

The one thing I do not follow PS LGB on is on the in-out games. I follow lsatblog's "logic chain" for that one.

How different is lsatblog than manhattan on this point?

(here's lsatblog's method for the bird game: http://lsatblog.blogspot.com/2009/12/lo ... orest.html)

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Blumpbeef
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby Blumpbeef » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:27 pm

I was going to ask the exact same thing. LSATBlog really really helped me with in/out. PS was terrible.

richie222
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby richie222 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:29 pm

A question for anyone who has used both Manhattan LG and PS LGB. I took the lsat in june and got a 164. LG was my worst section by far. I got -8, my goal is to get down to -3 at most for my target score.

I have used only the manhattan LG guide in studying for the LSAT. I am retaking in october and so far have just gone thru the manhattan LG over again. While I do feel that manhattan LG diagramming techniques are very effective, I am starting to think that I could see some great improvement using PS LG Bible. I have plenty of time to go through the book thoroughly. However, so far I have been hesitant to purchase it simply because I am so used to manhattan strategies. Also from what I understand most people go from PS LGB ---> Manhattan LG, no the other way around.

Does anyone who has used both have any opinion on whether I should get the LG Bible??

Edit: I've Also done around 30 practice tests altogether, 20 of them timed full length.

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TrojanHopeful
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby TrojanHopeful » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:39 pm

richie222 wrote:A question for anyone who has used both Manhattan LG and PS LGB. I took the lsat in june and got a 164. LG was my worst section by far. I got -8, my goal is to get down to -3 at most for my target score.

I have used only the manhattan LG guide in studying for the LSAT. I am retaking in october and so far have just gone thru the manhattan LG over again. While I do feel that manhattan LG diagramming techniques are very effective, I am starting to think that I could see some great improvement using PS LG Bible. I have plenty of time to go through the book thoroughly. However, so far I have been hesitant to purchase it simply because I am so used to manhattan strategies. Also from what I understand most people go from PS LGB ---> Manhattan LG, no the other way around.

Does anyone who has used both have any opinion on whether I should get the LG Bible??


I would pick up the PS book. As was said before, they both have their advantages. I think the PS book might have some strategies that you might find helpful to implement.

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citygirl000
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby citygirl000 » Tue Aug 09, 2011 10:45 pm

Definitely get the PS book - it's extremely helpful!

richie222 wrote:A question for anyone who has used both Manhattan LG and PS LGB. I took the lsat in june and got a 164. LG was my worst section by far. I got -8, my goal is to get down to -3 at most for my target score.

I have used only the manhattan LG guide in studying for the LSAT. I am retaking in october and so far have just gone thru the manhattan LG over again. While I do feel that manhattan LG diagramming techniques are very effective, I am starting to think that I could see some great improvement using PS LG Bible. I have plenty of time to go through the book thoroughly. However, so far I have been hesitant to purchase it simply because I am so used to manhattan strategies. Also from what I understand most people go from PS LGB ---> Manhattan LG, no the other way around.

Does anyone who has used both have any opinion on whether I should get the LG Bible??

Edit: I've Also done around 30 practice tests altogether, 20 of them timed full length.

richie222
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby richie222 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:08 am

I am going to get it. Wish me luck

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KevinP
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby KevinP » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:20 am

TrojanHopeful wrote:Anyone else agree with me on this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPDZSy0MJrA

richie222 wrote:I am going to get it. Wish me luck

Good choice on getting the LG bible. Manhattan is useful for linear/ordering, in and out, and open board games whereas Powerscore is good for laying out the basics, discussion of subtleties like number distributions, and rare game types. I've been using a combination of Manhattan and Powerscore for LG and it has been working out really well for me.

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NiccoloA
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby NiccoloA » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:02 pm

I've gone through LG and LR PS and Manhattan RC now. Thinking about LR Manhattan, will it really benefit me that much more?

I'm missing around 4 to 6 on LRs still and averaging around 165, hitting 171 at my high and 156 at my low (bad day).

richie222
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby richie222 » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:10 pm

i can't speak on how different manhattan and PS LR are since i have not used PS, but i have to say that manhattan LR is extremely well written and consequently LR is my strongest section, i average around -2 to -3. i would say that if you have the time and money, that it couldnt possibly hurt you to go through manhattan LR

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ms08g
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby ms08g » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:24 pm

NiccoloA wrote:I've gone through LG and LR PS and Manhattan RC now. Thinking about LR Manhattan, will it really benefit me that much more?

I'm missing around 4 to 6 on LRs still and averaging around 165, hitting 171 at my high and 156 at my low (bad day).


That's quite a distribution. I would say go with MLSAT's LG and LR. I know people seem to be hating on the size of their LG book, BUT they have explanations/diagrams for just about every LG out there on their forums. So read a chapter and then drill the corresponding question type, you can find a list of problems they recommend in your student section if you register your book on their website. Then refer to the forum for the diagram to make sure you're doing it properly. I think it comes down to what works best for you individually. I read the LGB and it helped me massively on LG, but MLSAT's book got me to consistent -1/-0. MLSAT's strategies are more effective, and I think if you research TLS you'll find that a ton of people who constantly get -1/-0 read the MLSAT guide or have referred to their forums for advice on certain games. MLSAT's Binary Grouping (in/out) strategy shits on PS IMO, and their open assignment strategy is better than using the general grouping strategy PS recommends. Lots of people like their relative ordering strategy as well, its pretty similar to Kaplan's so I had already been using it, but its definitely better than PS IMO as well. For Ordering and Closed Assignment PS and MLSAT are basically the same, though MLSAT's book holds your attention better IMO.

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proxy
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby proxy » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:47 am

I started with PS LG Bible, and just recently picked up Manhattan LG.

Ordering - Use Manhattan Method (ordering tree)
Linear - PS and Manhattan use basically the same method. PS goes into more detail and has more drills.
Stacked (Advance linear or 3d Ordering) PS and Manhattan use the same method. PS has more drills and detail.

Grouping - This is where Manhattan really shines. Binary Group - logic chain, and Open Assignment - Open Board methods are extremely powerful. They are easy to grasp but difficult to master, so a lot of practice will be required. But they are far more powerful for certain types of grouping games than anything PS provided. However, I have found instances where the PS approach is more suitable.

I believe that since I went through PS LG first, Manhattan LG was extremely easy to grasp. I would suggest getting both.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:15 pm

Someone suggested any additional comments about the difference between the books go here. I actually have not read the PS books, so I can't remark on them (and it'd be a bit of a stretch to say I'm unbiased anyway), but I will say that the about-to-be-released 3rd edition LG guide addresses some of the issues raised in the post above about our book not having a lot of drills. The book is bulking up to 600+ pages, with some extra drills online, so, I'll be interested to hear how folks react when they see it.

If you purchased our LG book recently, be sure to hold on to your receipt (if you didn't get it through our site), as the office usually allows folks that purchased within a couple of months to get a replacement.

Kurst
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby Kurst » Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:33 pm

Like many of you, I prepared for the LSAT using both the Powerscore and Manhattan books. I scored a 169 on the June 2011 test (-1 LG), and I retook the test a few weeks ago. I am not sure how I did (probably -0 LG -0 LR -27 RC, thought !Kung was the experimental), so I have been skimming my LSAT books again, in case I have to retake yet again. Anyway, I just finished reading Manhattan's new logic games book (disclaimer: Noah gave it to me for free), and I wanted to share my thoughts on it. Logic games have always been my favorite section: there is no stress, my brain turns off and my pencil does the work. If you've done every logic game, there are no surprises -- just variations on something you've seen before. Zones and subzones will not cause you to seethe with rage if your approach to them is flexible.

Manhattan's strength is its emphasis on flexibility. The point is to find a notation style that is meaningful to you under pressure, not to determine whether a game is Grouping-Defined-Fixed-Unbalanced-Underfunded, or Defined-Moving-Unbalanced-Overloaded, and use the perfect diagram for that type of game. While Manhattan has some wonderful diagramming methods, and one of the book's appendixes illustrates the methods as applied to the games from preptests 40-66, they emphasize that it is perfectly ok for two people, both of whom use the Manhattan methods, to diagram a game differently.

As for the particular diagramming methods, where Manhattan is not better than Powerscore, they are the same. As proxy said above, for Linear/Advanced Linear games, Manhattan and Powerscore are virtually indistinguishable. They both use Not Laws, chunks, etc. And as some others said, Powerscore's Pure Sequencing method is garbage. Manhattan's Tree (LinkRemoved) is infinitely better for relative ordering games. And as still others said, Manhattan's Open Board has no Powerscore equivalent. The only Manhattan method that I don't care for is their In/Out diagram. It's better than the crappy Powerscore alternative, but the LSAT Blog method for In/Out games is better still. Manhattan acknowledges some of the drawbacks of their In/Out diagram: (1) it can get messy, with all those criss-crossing arrows; (2) it cannot incorporate compound conditionals such as A & B -> C, X -> Y or Z; and (3) the messiness can lead to misinterpretation (following an arrow where it does not go). But lots of folks on TLS like Manhattan's method for In/Out games, so maybe I'm the only one following arrows where they do not go.

Aside from the diagramming methods, there are some welcome additions to the third edition:
  • Drills. I think Noah took the "lack of drills" criticism to heart. The new book is loaded with them, and for those with drilling appetites that are not sated after 600 pages, they have an online resource with additional drills.
  • Extensive discussion of Equivalent Rule questions, which first appeared in June 2009
  • Bonus questions for official LSAT games, including several Equivalent Rule questions
  • Coached replays: it's like having a tutor gently prod you while you tackle a game

I attribute my success with logic games to Manhattan, so I'd recommend their book. I also found their unofficial logic games very helpful. They are by no means a replacement for official games, but if you're like me and have completed every game from PT1-67 multiple times, they can serve as fresh games.

Examples of Relative Ordering games: PT 52 #2 and #4, PT 53 #2, PT 54 #3, PT 55 #3
Open Board games: PT12 #3, PT 35 #2, PT 54 #2, PT 56 #3, PT 57 #4
In/Out games: PT41 #3, PT 54 #1, PT 58 #2 and #4, PT 65 #3

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Rahviveh
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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby Rahviveh » Thu Oct 25, 2012 7:27 pm

I can also vouch for the excellence of the Manhattan RC guide, as well as the LG methods for relative ordering and open board games. Absolutely superior to what PS has to offer.

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Re: Manhattan LSAT - New Champ

Postby d0rklord » Fri Oct 26, 2012 11:51 am

Manhattan LSAT Noah wrote:Someone suggested any additional comments about the difference between the books go here. I actually have not read the PS books, so I can't remark on them (and it'd be a bit of a stretch to say I'm unbiased anyway), but I will say that the about-to-be-released 3rd edition LG guide addresses some of the issues raised in the post above about our book not having a lot of drills. The book is bulking up to 600+ pages, with some extra drills online, so, I'll be interested to hear how folks react when they see it.

If you purchased our LG book recently, be sure to hold on to your receipt (if you didn't get it through our site), as the office usually allows folks that purchased within a couple of months to get a replacement.


I'm making my way through the 3rd edition LG book and I must say...

i REALLY REALLY appreciate the time spent on those PESKY ASS substitution questions! They used to seriously piss me off but now I at least get how to tackle them instead of just blindly using brute force!

Thanks Noah :)




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