If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Ima Scrub
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If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby Ima Scrub » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:43 am

If, for whatever reason, I only got into a T3 school, would it even be worth going? Assuming they grant me a generous if not full ride...will job prospects be insanely bleak (seeing as even those graduating from top law schools are struggling to find a job too) for me to realistically assume I'll be successful after law school?

Thanks.

FiveSermon
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby FiveSermon » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:46 am

Full ride maybe. If not no.

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Grizz
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby Grizz » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:48 am

What school?

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General Tso
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby General Tso » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:48 am

I probably would not, unless it is full ride guaranteed (no GPA stipulations). But it depends...if you can do it in under 30-40k debt and would be happy earning 30-40k salary, then maybe. but most likely it is a bad financial decision in any event.

SchopenhauerFTW
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby SchopenhauerFTW » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:49 am

I am going to assume that you mean 3T/TTT...

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romothesavior
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby romothesavior » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:51 am

If it is really cheap and it is in an area you want to practice, then maybe. But if you mean some random private T3 on the other side of the country with terrible job prospects, then no.

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BrianGriffintheDog
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby BrianGriffintheDog » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:55 am

If it's the only school in the region with hefty scholarship, sure why not.

ryno8cubs5
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby ryno8cubs5 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:54 pm

Ima Scrub wrote:If, for whatever reason, I only got into a T3 school, would it even be worth going? Assuming they grant me a generous if not full ride...will job prospects be insanely bleak (seeing as even those graduating from top law schools are struggling to find a job too) for me to realistically assume I'll be successful after law school?

Thanks.


I am going to UMKC in the fall. My girlfriend's cousin graduated from UMKC last May, then moved to Oregon and has found a job with no outside connections. He did some unpaid internships/helped with several cases to get his name out in the area, but he got on at one of the firms in Portland that he ended up doing some work for. His debt out of LS was around 45k, and I believe that he is starting out at about 50k, maybe closer to 60k. This isn't the success story most people on here are aiming for, but UMKC is a T3, I believe, and worked out for him. I don't think that everyone has his success, but he graduated right around the median, so anyone can do it.

It is just depending on what you are wanting to do. Starting out with a 40k a year job after as much schooling that LS requires isn't for everyone. But, if you are young and willing to start low and work up, it seems to be worth it in the end. I will be happy with any employment in the legal field after I graduate. Starting low and working my way up is just how I see it going, since I am attending a local school in Missouri. It all just depends on what you are wanting from your career path in the end.

Hope this helped a little. If not, you helped me with my boredom at work for 5 minutes.

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fatduck
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby fatduck » Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:56 pm

HYS is good on paper but I wouldn't go without a significant scholarship.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:00 pm

but he graduated right around the median, so anyone can do it.


You realize that half of grads will be under median?

also 30k jobs that require law degree, 45k law grads. It takes more than elbow grease, boot straps etc

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jcunni5
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby jcunni5 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:04 pm

if you get a huge scholarship maybe and then only if you don't have a career path out of ug like business or something and you have a burning desire to be a lawyer cause going to TTT is a very difficult path especially ITE

2011Law
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby 2011Law » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:07 pm

I can't believe I'm the first person to say this. Study for the LSAT and RETAKE.

bbermud
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby bbermud » Thu Feb 24, 2011 6:16 pm

2011Law wrote:I can't believe I'm the first person to say this. Study for the LSAT and RETAKE.




+111111111111

ryno8cubs5
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby ryno8cubs5 » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:40 pm

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
but he graduated right around the median, so anyone can do it.


You realize that half of grads will be under median?

also 30k jobs that require law degree, 45k law grads. It takes more than elbow grease, boot straps etc


Thanks for clearing that up, bro. I was generalizing to show that you don't have to be top 10% at a T3 just to get a job.

2011Law
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby 2011Law » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:06 pm

ryno8cubs5 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
but he graduated right around the median, so anyone can do it.


You realize that half of grads will be under median?

also 30k jobs that require law degree, 45k law grads. It takes more than elbow grease, boot straps etc


Thanks for clearing that up, bro. I was generalizing to show that you don't have to be top 10% at a T3 just to get a job.


Yeah, you might be able to find a job, maybe even a legal job, being around median at a TTT, but will it be a job that can get you to pay off your student loans (with interest) within 15 years? Probably not. I do know someone who went to a TTT and ended up well (though I don't know how well they did early in their career), but they were in the top 1% of the class and got a full scholarship.

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Nicholasnickynic
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby Nicholasnickynic » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:39 am

ryno8cubs5 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
but he graduated right around the median, so anyone can do it.


You realize that half of grads will be under median?

also 30k jobs that require law degree, 45k law grads. It takes more than elbow grease, boot straps etc


Thanks for clearing that up, bro. I was generalizing to show that you don't have to be top 10% at a T3 just to get a job.


I'm not your bro, dude.

bhan87
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby bhan87 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:46 am

Nicholasnickynic wrote:
ryno8cubs5 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
but he graduated right around the median, so anyone can do it.


You realize that half of grads will be under median?

also 30k jobs that require law degree, 45k law grads. It takes more than elbow grease, boot straps etc


Thanks for clearing that up, bro. I was generalizing to show that you don't have to be top 10% at a T3 just to get a job.


I'm not your bro, dude.


He's not your dude, friend!

vamos
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby vamos » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:02 pm

bhan87 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
ryno8cubs5 wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up, bro. I was generalizing to show that you don't have to be top 10% at a T3 just to get a job.


I'm not your bro, dude.


He's not your dude, friend!

He's not your friend, son. :)

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General Tso
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:25 pm

vamos wrote:
bhan87 wrote:
Nicholasnickynic wrote:
ryno8cubs5 wrote:
Thanks for clearing that up, bro. I was generalizing to show that you don't have to be top 10% at a T3 just to get a job.


I'm not your bro, dude.


He's not your dude, friend!

He's not your friend, son. :)

He's not your son, Pops.

tomwatts
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby tomwatts » Fri Feb 25, 2011 5:49 pm

Just to articulate something clearly that others have sort of said: Tier 3 schools are largely feeders into local (and lower-level) law jobs. You CAN get employment locally from a lower-ranked school, but it may not be easy, and it may not pay much right off; you'll have to work your way up. You probably can't get a law job far away unless you have good connections.

You shouldn't take an enormous debt load to go to Tier 3 unless you have really great connections that will land you a high-paying law job right out of school, but if you can manage to avoid a huge amount of debt, are going to a school near where you want to work anyway, and don't mind what your classmates are going to be like, Tier 3 and even Tier 4 can be okay.

You do want to graduate in the top portion of your class, though. Some lower-ranked schools fail out large chunks of the lower parts of their classes anyway, and generally graduating below median from a lower-ranked school is bad news.

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afc1910
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby afc1910 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:05 pm

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Last edited by afc1910 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

paulinaporizkova
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby paulinaporizkova » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:10 pm

SchopenhauerFTW wrote:I am going to assume that you mean 3T/TTT...


weird, i thought he was talking about stanford



:)

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General Tso
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:23 pm

afc1910 wrote:
General Tso wrote:I probably would not, unless it is full ride guaranteed (no GPA stipulations). But it depends...if you can do it in under 30-40k debt and would be happy earning 30-40k salary, then maybe. but most likely it is a bad financial decision in any event.


Where is this 30-40k salary range coming from? Are you guessing completely, or do you actually know people who have JDs (regardless from which school) that are making that money? A starting salary for a postal worker is 35k, and I doubt you need anything more than a high school diploma to qualify for that job.


Well there's at least a 50-60% chance that a TTT student will not get a job as a lawyer. Most of those that do will be working at small firms or become solo practitioner. Those jobs do not generally pay well, but it depends on the market and the firm. I'd say a solo practitioner should probably expect to make between 20-40k in their first 2-3 years of practice, and small firm attorneys should expect between 30-60k (again depending on the market. If it's Jackson, Miss., expect on the low end. If it is Los Angeles, expect more like 50-60k). Strangely enough, NYC area small firms tend to pay very low salaries due to the glut of attorneys.

My brother attended a TTT in the south and earns 40k at a small government office. His friends ranged from 20-25k solo practitioner to 160k big firms in Houston, Atlanta, etc. Only about 2-3% of his classmates got big firm jobs.

I think you should go into law school planning for the worst but hoping for the best.

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General Tso
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby General Tso » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:26 pm

afc1910 wrote:
General Tso wrote:I probably would not, unless it is full ride guaranteed (no GPA stipulations). But it depends...if you can do it in under 30-40k debt and would be happy earning 30-40k salary, then maybe. but most likely it is a bad financial decision in any event.


Where is this 30-40k salary range coming from? Are you guessing completely, or do you actually know people who have JDs (regardless from which school) that are making that money? A starting salary for a postal worker is 35k, and I doubt you need anything more than a high school diploma to qualify for that job.


I know what you mean, it is pretty disheartening to think of a law degree as little better than a post office worker. But it's pretty much the reality right now. It could be worse though...at least as a lawyer you get interesting work and a comfortable office environment. It's just that the costs of becoming a lawyer are not justified by the salary you will earn thereafter.

Keep in mind that attorneys command higher salaries after some experience. Even if one starts off at around 40k, they could bump that up to the 60-70 range with several years' experience.

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afc1910
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Re: If I only got into a T3 school, would it be worth going?

Postby afc1910 » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:58 pm

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Last edited by afc1910 on Fri Mar 18, 2011 10:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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