Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

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EbonyEsq
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Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 11:45 am

Hi All,

First let me say I am NOT here to market either of these companies. I am simply looking for the best prep course in helping me get to a 170+.

Just as a background, I have been a former student of Princeton Review in 2005 (horrendous) and BluePrintPrep in 2007 (bittersweet). While my BP experience far surpassed that of PR, I honestly did not appreciate how large the class and in some instances, how rushed the class sessions. The teaching was also sometimes subpar unless Matt Riley (BP's LG guru) paid a visit. I also did not appreciate the times when the class discussion would derail into banter that had nothing to do with LSATs.

I'm now at a stage where I want to study hard, put in the work to do so and also go with a company that can tailor to my schedule. I currently work fulltime and as far as I'm aware, BP does not offer much options for those with a working schedule. That said, I'm still considering them because I did thoroughly enjoy their material and would get a significant discount as a former student if I chose to purchase the BP Movie. Unfortunately, their class sessions are only twice a year and are at hours that are not suitable to my schedule so I won't be able to take a prep course with them.

I'm strongly leaning towards Manhattan LSAT given their flexibility of hours but I haven't heard much of them until recently. Can anyone offer advice or experiences on what they thought of Manhattan LSAT? Also are there any reviews on the BP Movie and their online sessions?

And yes, I'm a NYC resident but I've narrowed it down to Atlas and BP as being the two best options in the city. If anyone disagrees, please relay other companies that are worth a look.


Thanks!

dtubin
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby dtubin » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:52 pm

bump because im interested as well.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:54 pm

PowerScore.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:56 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:PowerScore.


WHY Powerscore?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 1:58 pm

Great materials & proven results.

vodkashot
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby vodkashot » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:02 pm

Why not self-study?

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:04 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Great materials & proven results.


The same can be said for the aforementioned companies.

Not sure if you missed this but I am particularly looking for a company that is FLEXIBLE in its schedules. Powerscore may very well have proven results but they do not offer schedules that accommodate to students working fulltime.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:05 pm

vodkashot wrote:Why not self-study?


I intend to self study AND take a prep class. Atlas also offers a self-study package I'm looking into buying and I can also register for their prep course. I would only have to pay the difference.

So with Atlas, I can get a 2-in-1 deal for the cost of one full prep course. Not bad at all, but I still want to hear what others have to say on BP before jumping on my last prep course bandwagon.

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typ3
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby typ3 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:16 pm

I can offer my opinion.

I've done
Powerscore Bibles
Kaplan Class at my Local Center
Blueprint Online Class (was my sister's and she had 6months left so I did it it, skipped some drill exercises though)
Atlas Self Study Premium

I think atlas does a better job on their books than the power score bibles. As for course instruction, Atlas edges out Kaplan. Versus Blueprint it's hard to compare. If you're a 150-160 scorer and not exactly looking for a 170+ score than I would recommend Blueprint. If you're good on the fundamentals, IE not starting your diagnostic in the 130-140's, then I would recommend Atlas. Atlas is geared more towards getting you to the 170 range. Therefore, they spend a lot less time going over some basic concepts and more on tackling the test and advanced time management that the other prep companies simply ignore. Blueprint's movie is cool, but it's just visual representations of the problems. If you can read a question and make sense of it, then you don't need Trent drawing pictures on the screen for 5 minutes to explain it. I found when I did the blueprint movie I was less engaged with the class because of the weird antics and pictures that consumed it. Although for some people visual learning is certainly their cup of tea. It's a much slower course than the others to be sure.

One thing I liked about doing Atlas over the others was the two hours of free tutoring they provide you. I didn't think I would learn much from these and often approached them without a question, but during and afterwords I would always have something new to work on I didn't notice as a weakness.

However, with all the courses you will likely only spend about 1/5 of your prep time doing the class or the books, the rest of the time will be spent doing PT's or questions on your own. I really think people should view classes as a means to an end rather than an end themselves. They can provide you extra instruction and tools to tackle the PT's, but you must run the gamut yourself.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:30 pm

typ3 wrote:I can offer my opinion.

I've done
Powerscore Bibles
Kaplan Class at my Local Center
Blueprint Online Class (was my sister's and she had 6months left so I did it it, skipped some drill exercises though)
Atlas Self Study Premium

I think atlas does a better job on their books than the power score bibles. As for course instruction, Atlas edges out Kaplan. Versus Blueprint it's hard to compare. If you're a 150-160 scorer and not exactly looking for a 170+ score than I would recommend Blueprint. If you're good on the fundamentals, IE not starting your diagnostic in the 130-140's, then I would recommend Atlas. Atlas is geared more towards getting you to the 170 range. Therefore, they spend a lot less time going over some basic concepts and more on tackling the test and advanced time management that the other prep companies simply ignore. Blueprint's movie is cool, but it's just visual representations of the problems. If you can read a question and make sense of it, then you don't need Trent drawing pictures on the screen for 5 minutes to explain it. I found when I did the blueprint movie I was less engaged with the class because of the weird antics and pictures that consumed it. Although for some people visual learning is certainly their cup of tea. It's a much slower course than the others to be sure.

One thing I liked about doing Atlas over the others was the two hours of free tutoring they provide you. I didn't think I would learn much from these and often approached them without a question, but during and afterwords I would always have something new to work on I didn't notice as a weakness.

However, with all the courses you will likely only spend about 1/5 of your prep time doing the class or the books, the rest of the time will be spent doing PT's or questions on your own. I really think people should view classes as a means to an end rather than an end themselves. They can provide you extra instruction and tools to tackle the PT's, but you must run the gamut yourself.


I haven't taken a diagnostic in a quick minute but are you suggesting those those scoring in the 130-140s range have little to gain in taking Atlas/Manhattan LSAT?

Sure, it may be a larger and more impossible leap but I'm sure those scoring in the 130s/140s also want to get to the 170s just as much as those scoring in the 150s/160s range.

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typ3
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby typ3 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:38 pm

EbonyEsq wrote:
typ3 wrote:I can offer my opinion.

I've done
Powerscore Bibles
Kaplan Class at my Local Center
Blueprint Online Class (was my sister's and she had 6months left so I did it it, skipped some drill exercises though)
Atlas Self Study Premium

I think atlas does a better job on their books than the power score bibles. As for course instruction, Atlas edges out Kaplan. Versus Blueprint it's hard to compare. If you're a 150-160 scorer and not exactly looking for a 170+ score than I would recommend Blueprint. If you're good on the fundamentals, IE not starting your diagnostic in the 130-140's, then I would recommend Atlas. Atlas is geared more towards getting you to the 170 range. Therefore, they spend a lot less time going over some basic concepts and more on tackling the test and advanced time management that the other prep companies simply ignore. Blueprint's movie is cool, but it's just visual representations of the problems. If you can read a question and make sense of it, then you don't need Trent drawing pictures on the screen for 5 minutes to explain it. I found when I did the blueprint movie I was less engaged with the class because of the weird antics and pictures that consumed it. Although for some people visual learning is certainly their cup of tea. It's a much slower course than the others to be sure.

One thing I liked about doing Atlas over the others was the two hours of free tutoring they provide you. I didn't think I would learn much from these and often approached them without a question, but during and afterwords I would always have something new to work on I didn't notice as a weakness.

However, with all the courses you will likely only spend about 1/5 of your prep time doing the class or the books, the rest of the time will be spent doing PT's or questions on your own. I really think people should view classes as a means to an end rather than an end themselves. They can provide you extra instruction and tools to tackle the PT's, but you must run the gamut yourself.


I haven't taken a diagnostic in a quick minute but are you suggesting those those scoring in the 130-140s range have little to gain in taking Atlas/Manhattan LSAT?

Sure, it may be a larger and more impossible leap but I'm sure those scoring in the 130s/140s also want to get to the 170s just as much as those scoring in the 150s/160s range.



I'm not saying they have little or nothing to gain, but if one is scoring in the 130-140's it is likely that they need to work on the fundamentals before moving on to more advanced concepts. Prepping for the LSAT is sort of like climbing stairs. I believe this is why so many people see incremental jumps rather than straight linear improvement over time.

Here's a comparison,

Atlas is like geometry.
Kaplan/Blue Print are like Algebra.

One shouldn't move onto geometry if they aren't proficient in basic algebra. They're likely not to grasp the concepts fully and still make algebraic mistakes. There's a free LSAC PT online if you want to take a diagnostic.

If one isn't proficient in Algebra, it wouldn't make much sense for them to dive into geometry.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:44 pm

typ3 wrote:
EbonyEsq wrote:
typ3 wrote:I can offer my opinion.

I've done
Powerscore Bibles
Kaplan Class at my Local Center
Blueprint Online Class (was my sister's and she had 6months left so I did it it, skipped some drill exercises though)
Atlas Self Study Premium

I think atlas does a better job on their books than the power score bibles. As for course instruction, Atlas edges out Kaplan. Versus Blueprint it's hard to compare. If you're a 150-160 scorer and not exactly looking for a 170+ score than I would recommend Blueprint. If you're good on the fundamentals, IE not starting your diagnostic in the 130-140's, then I would recommend Atlas. Atlas is geared more towards getting you to the 170 range. Therefore, they spend a lot less time going over some basic concepts and more on tackling the test and advanced time management that the other prep companies simply ignore. Blueprint's movie is cool, but it's just visual representations of the problems. If you can read a question and make sense of it, then you don't need Trent drawing pictures on the screen for 5 minutes to explain it. I found when I did the blueprint movie I was less engaged with the class because of the weird antics and pictures that consumed it. Although for some people visual learning is certainly their cup of tea. It's a much slower course than the others to be sure.

One thing I liked about doing Atlas over the others was the two hours of free tutoring they provide you. I didn't think I would learn much from these and often approached them without a question, but during and afterwords I would always have something new to work on I didn't notice as a weakness.

However, with all the courses you will likely only spend about 1/5 of your prep time doing the class or the books, the rest of the time will be spent doing PT's or questions on your own. I really think people should view classes as a means to an end rather than an end themselves. They can provide you extra instruction and tools to tackle the PT's, but you must run the gamut yourself.


I haven't taken a diagnostic in a quick minute but are you suggesting those those scoring in the 130-140s range have little to gain in taking Atlas/Manhattan LSAT?

Sure, it may be a larger and more impossible leap but I'm sure those scoring in the 130s/140s also want to get to the 170s just as much as those scoring in the 150s/160s range.



I'm not saying they have little or nothing to gain, but if one is scoring in the 130-140's it is likely that they need to work on the fundamentals before moving on to more advanced concepts. Prepping for the LSAT is sort of like climbing stairs. I believe this is why so many people see incremental jumps rather than straight linear improvement over time.

Here's a comparison,

Atlas is like geometry.
Kaplan/Blue Print are like Algebra.

One shouldn't move onto geometry if they aren't proficient in basic algebra. They're likely not to grasp the concepts fully and still make algebraic mistakes. There's a free LSAC PT online if you want to take a diagnostic.

If one isn't proficient in Algebra, it wouldn't make much sense for them to dive into geometry.


I've registered to take Manhattan LSAT's free proctored exam. We'll see how it goes.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:44 pm

Your posts are interesting in that they seemed designed to promote Kaplan & Kaplan's subsidiary Atlas/Manhattan. It is rare to see praise for Kaplan. I suspect that this thread is little more than a thinly disguised promotion for Atlas/Manhattan & Kaplan because you seem too well prepared to answer your own questions in an assertive fashion.
Until students tell me otherwise, PowerScore is still the best LSAT test prep., followed by TestMasters & then Princeton review if able to take a class with one of their top instructors.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:46 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Your posts are interesting in that they seemed designed to promote Kaplan & Kaplan's subsidiary Atlas/Manhattan. It is rare to see praise for Kaplan. I suspect that this thread is little more than a thinly disguised promotion for Atlas/Manhattan & Kaplan because you seem too well prepared to answer your own questions in an assertive fashion.
Until students tell me otherwise, PowerScore is still the best LSAT test prep.


LOL. You're hilarious. You're entitled to your own opinion and thanks for your contributions.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:49 pm

Didn't intend to be humorous; just tired of these ridiculous promo threads for test prep companies by relatively new, or brand new, posters who start off by proclaiming that their post is not intended to promote any test prep company then do so ad nauseum by bad mouthing the best & most proven LSAT test prep companies available.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 2:57 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Didn't intend to be humorous; just tired of these ridiculous promo threads for test prep companies by relatively new, or brand new, posters who start off by proclaiming that their post is not intended to promote any test prep company then do so ad nauseum by bad mouthing the best & most proven LSAT test prep companies available.


Look, if you took the time to see where and how I contribute to this forum I have no reason to be promoting ANY company. Just because there are a few on here who are doing that does not mean that EVERYONE who asks about a particular prep course(s) are in fact asking for marketing purposes.

As far as you suggesting that I have added to "bad mouthing" Powerscore, you are, indeed, hilarious. I just mentioned the FACT that PS does not offer as flexible course options for me as Atlas and BP, hence my decision to narrow down to the two. Moreover, I already have the PS bibles in my arsenal and have found their materials useful thus far.

Anyway, assume as you may. I'm just here seeking information and if you cannot add to this discussion then please find another thread to contribute to.

Toodles.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:04 pm

If you are such an expert on all the test prep companies, then why start such a thread if not to promote Kaplan & Kaplan's subsisiary Atlas/Manhattan ? As I wrote earlier, it is unusual to read praise of Kaplan's LSAT prep. Your posts don't really seek advice, although they do seem geared toward directing others to these companies. It is common for promoters of Atlas/Manhattan to point out, as you have done, somewhat intricate discrepencies between Powerscore & Atlas/Manhattan that supposedly favor the latter for logic games prep. This appears to be little more than a designed promo thread.

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typ3
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby typ3 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:10 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:If you are such an expert on all the test prep companies, then why start such a thread if not to promote Kaplan & Kaplan's subsisiary Atlas/Manhatten ? As I wrote earlier, it is unusual to read praise of Kaplan's LSAT prep ? Your posts don't really seek advice.


Eh, there's quite a few on this board who have tried Atlas and think it's great. That's how I decided to purchase it.

Kaplan isn't horrible for the average person looking to score 150-160. The problem with Kaplan is it's a chain and you can either get a good instructor or a piss poor one.

Also Atlas/Manhattan is not a Kaplan subsidiary. If you were to claim it were a subsidiary of any it would be Cambridge, but they're sister companies so that wouldn't be correct.

Powerscore is good, but it isn't great. I think the LGB can be improved, I think Atlas does a better job on that part of the test. I've said in other posts the LRB is better for getting into LR questions, Atlas is better for more advanced strategies of timing and tackling the assumption family questions. I do like LRB's diagramming a little more than Atlas's which is basically non existent. Also, Atlas doesn't teach you the reverse negation technique.

If I were advising someone new, I'd say get Atlas LG, Atlas LR + PScore LR, and Atlas RC, and then grouping and the games workbook from PScore.

Manhattan LSAT Noah
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby Manhattan LSAT Noah » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:14 pm

typ3 wrote:Also Atlas/Manhattan is not a Kaplan subsidiary. If you were to claim it were a subsidiary of any it would be Cambridge, but they're sister companies so that wouldn't be correct.

Full disclosure: we were bought by Kaplan around the beginning of the year. Though they leave us completely alone. Our curriculum, teaching staff, etc. are completely separate. Pixar and Disney? Also, we're not affiliated with Cambridge LSAT, though we each think the other has good stuff, and so we share the love.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:15 pm

Kaplan owns Atlas/Manhattan. I never offered an opinion on the others other than to say the students with whom I have spoken did not find Kaplan's LSAT test prep course worthwhile. Many, actually most, PowerScore students and/or self-study LGBible users were able to score -0 on the logic games section in several PTs prior to taking the LSAT.
Once again, this thread does not seem to seek advice, but, rather, to offer advice under the guise of seeking advice.

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northwood
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby northwood » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:21 pm

if you have allready taken a course from 2 other companies, then you should have a good idea about your peformance on the test, if you took it seriously and did all of the work. There are many online versions that you can use. I personally took the liveonline version of PR, and it helped me gain the foundation that I needed. I also augmented that by doing more than just the homework assignments. I used the powerscore bibles and drilled on my own. took 20 pts total.

that being said if you took the courses and still arent satisified with your score, then i would strongly suggest some serious self reflection about the merits of continuing on with lsat prep. IF after 2 courses you still cant score well... then perhaps law school is not for you. ( dont mean to be so harsh, but why waste more money)

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typ3
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby typ3 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:24 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Kaplan owns Atlas/Manhattan. I never offered an opinion on the others other than to say the students with whom I have spoken did not find Kaplan's LSAT test prep course worthwhile. Many, actually most, PowerScore students and/or self-study LGBible users were able to score -0 on the logic games section in several PTs prior to taking the LSAT.
Once again, this thread does not seem to seek advice, but, rather, to offer advice under the guise of seeking advice.



Just because Kaplan now owns Atlas doesn't make them one of the same. I can tell you from doing both their content is drastically different. I scored a -0 on my LG by using the LGB, but I don't think it's the best. I actually found Atlas's methods quicker, easier, and more consistent. There's people on this forum who have scored a 180 on the real deal using PR and Kaplan, though nearly everyone on this forum would agree those companies do not put out the best prep material. PM me your address, I'll ship you my old Atlas books to you so you can take a look.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby CanadianWolf » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:25 pm

Me thinks thou doest protest too much.

Kind of ridiculous to post that you achieved a -0 on logic games self-studying with the Powerscore LG Bible, but that you are convinced that another course is better for logic games. Are you seeking extra credit on the LSAT ?
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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typ3
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby typ3 » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:26 pm

northwood wrote:if you have allready taken a course from 2 other companies, then you should have a good idea about your peformance on the test, if you took it seriously and did all of the work. There are many online versions that you can use. I personally took the liveonline version of PR, and it helped me gain the foundation that I needed. I also augmented that by doing more than just the homework assignments. I used the powerscore bibles and drilled on my own. took 20 pts total.

that being said if you took the courses and still arent satisified with your score, then i would strongly suggest some serious self reflection about the merits of continuing on with lsat prep. IF after 2 courses you still cant score well... then perhaps law school is not for you. ( dont mean to be so harsh, but why waste more money)



I don't know if it is not scoring well, but people on this forum will take 2+ courses if it results in them going from a 168/169 to a 172/173.

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EbonyEsq
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Re: Atlas/Manhattan LSAT v. BP

Postby EbonyEsq » Thu Nov 04, 2010 3:31 pm

northwood wrote:if you have allready taken a course from 2 other companies, then you should have a good idea about your peformance on the test, if you took it seriously and did all of the work. There are many online versions that you can use. I personally took the liveonline version of PR, and it helped me gain the foundation that I needed. I also augmented that by doing more than just the homework assignments. I used the powerscore bibles and drilled on my own. took 20 pts total.

that being said if you took the courses and still arent satisified with your score, then i would strongly suggest some serious self reflection about the merits of continuing on with lsat prep. IF after 2 courses you still cant score well... then perhaps law school is not for you. ( dont mean to be so harsh, but why waste more money)


I admit I did not take either of the prep courses seriously given the period of time I enrolled for the courses. Coupled with the fact that PR was a horrible experience given the type of teachers I eventually slacked off and did not give the course my all.

As for BP, outside occurences resulted in me not completing the course.

I've done alot of maturing since then and am ready to take a different approach to how I study while not solely relying on a prep course for preparation. I also did not take enough timed PTs during my studying.




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