Need advice on October vs. December

charmin519
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Sat Aug 28, 2010 6:25 pm

I've been in LSAT mode for the past 30 days with a diagnostic of 143. I've completed the LG and LR Powerscore bibles and have the concepts down.

Currently I'm scoring:

151-157 Timed
162-166 No Time with average completion of sections at 42 minutes.

Have achieved -3 on Logic Games and generally excel on this section in timed conditions
For RC and LR I consistently average -6 per section with no time and average -11 when timed.

I've abandoned trying to further develop concept knowledge for harder questions as I feel my biggest concern is timing and endurance. I'm currently taking 2 (4) section timed test with NO breaks per week and reviewing. I plan on doing this for the remaining 4 weeks with 4 individual sections timed per week (2 for LR and 2 for RC).

Should I take the October LSAT under the assumption that I can retake in December if 162 or below?
or
Should I reschedule my first LSAT for December?
I'm currently registered for the Oct LSAT. Points to consider:

Bad UGPA
Great Softs confirmed by law school admin consultants
Graduated 4 years ago
Great LOR's from Vice Presidents and Professors.
Timing of applications

Should I stick with it or start prepping for December? I'd prefer a 162+ on the exam. I'm not applying to T14's or even Tier 1's. I have a specific niche I want to get into after acquiring JD and BIGLAW is not my goal.

Sandro
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby Sandro » Sat Aug 28, 2010 8:09 pm

if you are maxing out at 166 UNTIMED ... its going to be very hard to get a 160+ on the real thing IMO. If you think you can improve substantially to give yourself a good shot at 160+ in the next 40 days, sign up for Oct and give it a shot. If not December.

2011Law
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby 2011Law » Sat Aug 28, 2010 9:35 pm

OP, when you say you are not applying to T1, do you mean 1-100 or just 1-50, and you'll try for 51-100? Any schools in mind? UGPA? Also, what niche do you want to get into?

If you don't care where you go for law school, then I'd say take it in Oct. and apply as soon as scores come in, that'd be your best shot. If you really need a certain score and you're not even averaging that timed by test date, then I'd hold off until Dec. and study your ass off (that's what I'm doing). The downside to this is that while you will be applying in Jan at the earliest, most schools (I'm not sure about TTT, you should look this up) will have already filled up the majority of their seats and given out money, so you're chances are really hurt to get in to a school if you are on the line for their admit stats, and if you do get in you'll likely get way less money, if any, than you would have if you applied in Nov.

charmin519
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:45 am

I'm not applying to 1-50.

ANYONE ELSE OUT THERE?????? I'd hate to do December and not get in because of timing but its better than a reject.

Keep it coming please. Looking for a few opinions.

charmin519
Posts: 23
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Sun Aug 29, 2010 2:49 am

Sandro777 wrote:if you are maxing out at 166 UNTIMED ... its going to be very hard to get a 160+ on the real thing IMO. If you think you can improve substantially to give yourself a good shot at 160+ in the next 40 days, sign up for Oct and give it a shot. If not December.



Is there any particular reason why you think my untimed max is serious variable in this equation? Seems like endurance is the bigger issue? I'm going to get into one of my four schools with a 160+. I see from your profile you got a 157. Did you max out above or below 166? Just want to know if personal experience is the rationality of your opinion?

Thanks for your advice. I'm looking for all the advice I can get.

Any help from others out there would be appreciated as well.

albanach
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby albanach » Sun Aug 29, 2010 7:45 pm

[quote="charmin519"]I'm not applying to 1-50.

Can we ask why not? If you can master timing, you've already shown yourself as capable of a 166. If your GPA is decent you could be looking at schools in the 15-20 range or possibly a free ride at a 50-100 school given you'd be comfortably above their 75 percentile.

Why not wait and sit the test when you're really ready for it?

Sandro
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby Sandro » Mon Aug 30, 2010 1:03 am

charmin519 wrote:
Sandro777 wrote:if you are maxing out at 166 UNTIMED ... its going to be very hard to get a 160+ on the real thing IMO. If you think you can improve substantially to give yourself a good shot at 160+ in the next 40 days, sign up for Oct and give it a shot. If not December.



Is there any particular reason why you think my untimed max is serious variable in this equation? Seems like endurance is the bigger issue? I'm going to get into one of my four schools with a 160+. I see from your profile you got a 157. Did you max out above or below 166? Just want to know if personal experience is the rationality of your opinion?

Thanks for your advice. I'm looking for all the advice I can get.

Any help from others out there would be appreciated as well.


For myself, and many others, time is the biggest enemy on the lsat. If you gave me 6 hours to complete the test my score would drastically improve from a timed PT. I got a 157 but didnt even take a full timed PT before the test. Granted, if you dont know the material - all the time in the world isnt going to help you. But it looks like from scoring mid-low 160's UNTIMED you havent gotten a full grasp of all of the material. You yourself said that on LR/RC (75% of the test) that introducing timing doubles your missed per section. If your max right now is ~165 with no time - what do you think a realistic max would be with timing introduced?

whymeohgodno
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:57 am

charmin519 wrote:I've been in LSAT mode for the past 30 days with a diagnostic of 143. I've completed the LG and LR Powerscore bibles and have the concepts down.

Currently I'm scoring:

151-157 Timed
162-166 No Time with average completion of sections at 42 minutes.

Have achieved -3 on Logic Games and generally excel on this section in timed conditions
For RC and LR I consistently average -6 per section with no time and average -11 when timed.

I've abandoned trying to further develop concept knowledge for harder questions as I feel my biggest concern is timing and endurance. I'm currently taking 2 (4) section timed test with NO breaks per week and reviewing. I plan on doing this for the remaining 4 weeks with 4 individual sections timed per week (2 for LR and 2 for RC).

Should I take the October LSAT under the assumption that I can retake in December if 162 or below?
or
Should I reschedule my first LSAT for December?
I'm currently registered for the Oct LSAT. Points to consider:

Bad UGPA
Great Softs confirmed by law school admin consultants

Graduated 4 years ago
Great LOR's from Vice Presidents and Professors.
Timing of applications

Should I stick with it or start prepping for December? I'd prefer a 162+ on the exam. I'm not applying to T14's or even Tier 1's. I have a specific niche I want to get into after acquiring JD and BIGLAW is not my goal.


Undergrad law school consultants tend to be retarded and they like to give you false hope. I really doubt you have "great softs".

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Blindc1rca
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby Blindc1rca » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:26 am

whymeohgodno wrote:Undergrad law school consultants tend to be retarded and they like to give you false hope. I really doubt you have "great softs".


Flawed reasoning.

What makes you willing to go so far as to doubt the quality of his/her softs simply because someone from a group of people that you generally don't trust agrees with him/her that they are strong?

Way to be a Negative Nancy for no reason at all.


RE: OP. Dude keep studying hard, don't get deterred and definitely don't stress. Plan for October and if the day comes and you still feel capable of substantial improvement and willing to continue putting in the effort to get there, then do December.

I'm in a similarly f-d up situation. I started studying August 8th, and I already bought my ticket back to the states for October so I have no choice really but to take it then. I'm just cramming cramming cramming cramming 'til then. From my original diagnostic of 165 I haven't really seen that much improvement. My LG's have gotten better (-9 to -11 at first, -6 to -4 now), but my LR's have inexplicably gotten worse. I have faith though, we still have 41 days which is definitely enough time for things to click. Keep it up!

whymeohgodno
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby whymeohgodno » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:30 am

Blindc1rca wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Undergrad law school consultants tend to be retarded and they like to give you false hope. I really doubt you have "great softs".


Flawed reasoning.

What makes you willing to go so far as to doubt the quality of his/her softs simply because someone from a group of people that you generally don't trust agrees with him/her that they are strong?

Way to be a Negative Nancy for no reason at all.


RE: OP. Dude keep studying hard, don't get deterred and definitely don't stress. Plan for October and if the day comes and you still feel capable of substantial improvement and willing to continue putting in the effort to get there, then do December.

I'm in a similarly f-d up situation. I started studying August 8th, and I already bought my ticket back to the states for October so I have no choice really but to take it then. I'm just cramming cramming cramming cramming 'til then. From my original diagnostic of 165 I haven't really seen that much improvement. My LG's have gotten better (-9 to -11 at first, -6 to -4 now), but my LR's have inexplicably gotten worse. I have faith though, we still have 41 days which is definitely enough time for things to click. Keep it up!


I'm skeptical whenever I hear someone has "great softs", and I'm doubly skeptical when they don't list it and the only reason they give for calling it "great" is because an undergrad law school consultant told them so.

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paratactical
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby paratactical » Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:46 am

.
Last edited by paratactical on Wed Feb 13, 2013 11:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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kazu
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby kazu » Mon Aug 30, 2010 11:21 am

paratactical wrote: Chances are that an individual's softs are not special enough to have affect upon their admissions unles they have truly great and outstanding softs.


+1

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nematoad
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby nematoad » Mon Aug 30, 2010 9:00 pm

charmin519 wrote:
I've abandoned trying to further develop concept knowledge for harder questions as I feel my biggest concern is timing and endurance. I'm currently taking 2 (4) section timed test with NO breaks per week and reviewing. I plan on doing this for the remaining 4 weeks with 4 individual sections timed per week (2 for LR and 2 for RC).



Definitely do not do this. The harder questions test your basic understanding of the material as well. If I were you I'd go back to learning the fundamentals the next 10 days. No more timed sections. (re)Learn all the ins and outs. And definitely definitely definitely look over the harder questions without the pressure of time. Know that you are actually capable of understanding the info before you lock yourself into time restrictions. at this point you need to change up your study habits.
you still have 40 days till the october lsat, you have plenty of time to work on your timing. there is no reason you shouldn't make it into the 160s by gameday

charmin519
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:40 pm

To all the pessimistic people out there who doubt by softs:

At the age of twenty one I convinced a multi million dollar corporation to use me as a "TEST" franchise model. Working 60 hours a week I successfully built a 500k a year business before the age of 23. I then completed my final 66 credit hours in 3 semesters with a 3.23 GPA while maintaining my established business. I sold the business in 2007 before the collapse and pocketed a large chip pile. I now work as a consultant for high rise, industrial, manufacturing, and heavy commercial facilities specializing in building automation which integrates security, fire, lighting, mechanical, etc...... I'm currently ranked 4 of 206 consultants nationally for a 1 billion a year publicly traded company. I"m 27 and I don't have the engineering degree HIGHLY DESIRED for employment in my industry and compete against those with an average of 18 years of experience in the industry.

Did I mention that I was financially cut off at the age of 18 and paid for shelter, food, gas, vehicle, insurance, tuition, books, etc...... 100% on my own without any loans.

My LOR's are from the Vice President of the company that gave me the "Test" drive.
LOR from professor who witnessed first hand me withdrawing from a course with a 98 average because of company requirements to leave the state for three weeks to finish large job.
LOR from national engineering director of IBM who is a current customer
LOR from CEO of billion dollar publicly traded company I currently work for.


Some of you people need to get a life on this board. I didn't ask for your BS on my softs. So stick to the point or move on.

charmin519
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:46 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
Blindc1rca wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:Undergrad law school consultants tend to be retarded and they like to give you false hope. I really doubt you have "great softs".


Flawed reasoning.

What makes you willing to go so far as to doubt the quality of his/her softs simply because someone from a group of people that you generally don't trust agrees with him/her that they are strong?

Way to be a Negative Nancy for no reason at all.


RE: OP. Dude keep studying hard, don't get deterred and definitely don't stress. Plan for October and if the day comes and you still feel capable of substantial improvement and willing to continue putting in the effort to get there, then do December.

I'm in a similarly f-d up situation. I started studying August 8th, and I already bought my ticket back to the states for October so I have no choice really but to take it then. I'm just cramming cramming cramming cramming 'til then. From my original diagnostic of 165 I haven't really seen that much improvement. My LG's have gotten better (-9 to -11 at first, -6 to -4 now), but my LR's have inexplicably gotten worse. I have faith though, we still have 41 days which is definitely enough time for things to click. Keep it up!


I'm skeptical whenever I hear someone has "great softs", and I'm doubly skeptical when they don't list it and the only reason they give for calling it "great" is because an undergrad law school consultant told them so.



I didn't cure cancer but I'd bet my softs are better than 85%-95% of all applicants.

To all the pessimistic people out there who doubt by softs:

At the age of twenty one I convinced a multi million dollar corporation to use me as a "TEST" franchise model. Working 60 hours a week I successfully built a 500k a year business before the age of 23. I then completed my final 66 credit hours in 3 semesters with a 3.23 GPA while maintaining my established business. I sold the business in 2007 before the collapse and pocketed a large chip pile. I now work as a consultant for high rise, industrial, manufacturing, and heavy commercial facilities specializing in building automation which integrates security, fire, lighting, mechanical, etc...... I'm currently ranked 4 of 206 consultants nationally for a 1 billion a year publicly traded company. I"m 27 and I don't have the engineering degree HIGHLY DESIRED for employment in my industry and compete against those with an average of 18 years of experience in the industry.

Did I mention that I was financially cut off at the age of 18 and paid for shelter, food, gas, vehicle, insurance, tuition, books, etc...... 100% on my own without any loans.

My LOR's are from the Vice President of the company that gave me the "Test" drive.
LOR from professor who witnessed first hand me withdrawing from a course with a 98 average because of company requirements to leave the state for three weeks to finish large job.
LOR from national engineering director of IBM who is a current customer
LOR from CEO of billion dollar publicly traded company I currently work for.


Some of you people need to get a life on this board. I didn't ask for your BS on my softs. So stick to the point or move on.

charmin519
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Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:06 am

Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Tue Aug 31, 2010 11:52 pm

Sandro777 wrote:
charmin519 wrote:
Sandro777 wrote:if you are maxing out at 166 UNTIMED ... its going to be very hard to get a 160+ on the real thing IMO. If you think you can improve substantially to give yourself a good shot at 160+ in the next 40 days, sign up for Oct and give it a shot. If not December.



Is there any particular reason why you think my untimed max is serious variable in this equation? Seems like endurance is the bigger issue? I'm going to get into one of my four schools with a 160+. I see from your profile you got a 157. Did you max out above or below 166? Just want to know if personal experience is the rationality of your opinion?

Thanks for your advice. I'm looking for all the advice I can get.

Any help from others out there would be appreciated as well.


For myself, and many others, time is the biggest enemy on the lsat. If you gave me 6 hours to complete the test my score would drastically improve from a timed PT. I got a 157 but didnt even take a full timed PT before the test. Granted, if you dont know the material - all the time in the world isnt going to help you. But it looks like from scoring mid-low 160's UNTIMED you havent gotten a full grasp of all of the material. You yourself said that on LR/RC (75% of the test) that introducing timing doubles your missed per section. If your max right now is ~165 with no time - what do you think a realistic max would be with timing introduced?


Well it isn't what I wanted to hear but it has merit. I think this entire week will be devoted to basic concepts of LR and I'll start on timed tests on the 8th again.

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2ofspades
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby 2ofspades » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:05 am

Blindc1rca wrote:Way to be a Negative Nancy for no reason at all.

I am in middle school in the 50s.

charmin519 wrote:I'm not applying to T14's or even Tier 1's. I have a specific niche I want to get into after acquiring JD and BIGLAW is not my goal. ...

I'm currently ranked 4 of 206 consultants nationally for a 1 billion a year publicly traded company. ...

I didn't ask for your BS on my softs. So stick to the point or move on.

I am going to ignore your request and raise the obvious question - if you are this successful now, then why is it that you are pursuing a law degree? It sounds like you've got a concrete idea of what you want to do, but if you're already a top consultant for a major corporation, I don't understand how a school outside the T50 would improve your situation. Help me out?

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kazu
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby kazu » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:07 am

2ofspades wrote:I am going to ignore your request and raise the obvious question - if you are this successful now, then why is it that you are pursuing a law degree? It sounds like you've got a concrete idea of what you want to do, but if you're already a top consultant for a major corporation, I don't understand how a school outside the T50 would improve your situation. Help me out?


I was going to ask this but it's already been asked, so +1 on the question. Is a law degree going to significantly help with your current job or something? I mean the legal industry itself is pretty disastrous, from what I hear.

Edit: also, no one was trying to piss you off about your softs. A lot of people come in here and say that they have great softs. 99 % of them don't. Also, it's a general consensus here that law school admin consultants are useless, and that they give out a lot of bad (or even outright false) info. Without details, if you say "I have great softs and that's what my pre-law counselor told me", without any more info TLS is going to say "No you don't" because that's what 99% of the people who say that need to hear.

charmin519
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:31 am

Why do people not answer your questions on this board? Who cares what my reason are? Do I have to establish credibility before you give me your unqualified answer?

If you must know....I need it for international endeavors and joint ventures. I'm uncomfortable with trusting attorneys that I don't know or don't speak their language. I want the JD so that I can again start another business that I anticipate will be heavily regulated within the next ten years. I could pay someone to do it but by the end of the decade I could have paid for the degree with the legal fees paid out of my A##.

I also just flat want to have a legal degree. I've always had this goal and it will be utilized in addition to my business experiences.

Not everyone is settled with their initial success. Some prefer to move on and push their boundaries. I couldn't live with myself if I became content with what I've accomplish.

NOW PLEASE STOP DISSECTING EVERYTHING I SAY AND EITHER ANSWER THE QUESTION OR MOVE ON. I think my question was quite direct. I'd appreciate direct answers.

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2ofspades
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby 2ofspades » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:37 am

charmin519 wrote:Why do people not answer your questions on this board? Who cares what my reason are? Do I have to establish credibility before you give me your unqualified answer?

If you don't like it when someone responds to you with a question, then I don't think you are going to enjoy the Socratic method.

charmin519
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:39 am

2ofspades wrote:
Blindc1rca wrote:Way to be a Negative Nancy for no reason at all.

I am in middle school in the 50s.

charmin519 wrote:I'm not applying to T14's or even Tier 1's. I have a specific niche I want to get into after acquiring JD and BIGLAW is not my goal. ...

I'm currently ranked 4 of 206 consultants nationally for a 1 billion a year publicly traded company. ...

I didn't ask for your BS on my softs. So stick to the point or move on.

I am going to ignore your request and raise the obvious question - if you are this successful now, then why is it that you are pursuing a law degree? It sounds like you've got a concrete idea of what you want to do, but if you're already a top consultant for a major corporation, I don't understand how a school outside the T50 would improve your situation. Help me out?


Why do I need to "help you out" in order to get an objective opinion from you? Why are you initially questioning me rather than giving a direct answer to a direct question? Will knowing my ultimate plan change your answer? In some cases it may. However, my question was in regards to the timing of the LSAT test date and the direct and indirect consequences of the two choices. Unless, you know something that I don't then your answer wouldn't change whether you understood my intentions or not. Your response seems to indicate that you have already made an assumption based on my previous responses that were halfheartedly drafted.

charmin519
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:42 am

2ofspades wrote:
charmin519 wrote:Why do people not answer your questions on this board? Who cares what my reason are? Do I have to establish credibility before you give me your unqualified answer?

If you don't like it when someone responds to you with a question, then I don't think you are going to enjoy the Socratic method.


see responses below. The two have nothing to do with one another.

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Adjudicator
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby Adjudicator » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:43 am

You seem like a pretty tightly-wound guy.

charmin519
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby charmin519 » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:44 am

Why does it seem that the antagonistic responses seem to be from "NEW" members? New being the last thirty days or less?

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Adjudicator
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Re: Need advice on October vs. December

Postby Adjudicator » Wed Sep 01, 2010 12:45 am

charmin519 wrote:Why does it seem that the antagonistic responses seem to be from "NEW" members? New being the last thirty days or less?


I have more posts than you do. I could say the same thing about you.




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