PTs vs The Real Deal

mwheatley
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PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby mwheatley » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:24 pm

I have heard that the average person that takes the LSAT does about 10 points worse on the actual exam when compared to the PTs. Does this seem about right? Anyone have any light to shed on this?

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Day2Daze
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby Day2Daze » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:29 pm

10 points less that what youre PT'ing at? Who the fuck told you that?? Unless you are PT'ing in bed, untimed, on questions youve already tried then why would you score 10 points less, that is a MASSIVE drop.

1-5 points is more reasonable if youre PT'ing timed, w/ an experimental, and in a place w/ sufficient noise. Nerves etc. wont pull you down 10 points. Unless you forget pencils or your admission ticket or something...

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Anaconda
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby Anaconda » Fri Aug 13, 2010 10:48 pm

The last PT I took in a LOUD library ended in complete disaster. If the proctors are obnoxious (i.e. talking on the phone/having a conversation during the test) or there is severe background noise, what would LSAC do for you?

I think the consensus on TLS is a 0-5 point drop, however some people do better surprisingly, although I think those are more of the people PTing in the 150 range or people who somehow gain focus during the actual test.

Day2Daze wrote:10 points less that what youre PT'ing at? Who the fuck told you that?? Unless you are PT'ing in bed, untimed, on questions youve already tried then why would you score 10 points less, that is a MASSIVE drop.

1-5 points is more reasonable if youre PT'ing timed, w/ an experimental, and in a place w/ sufficient noise. Nerves etc. wont pull you down 10 points. Unless you forget pencils or your admission ticket or something...

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kazu
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby kazu » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:41 pm

According to the polls which inevitably appear after an LSAT is administered, it usually goes in a (sideways) bell-shaped curve w/ the most people scoring a few points (I think it was around 3~5) lower than their PT average. 10 points is an exaggeration

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beachbum
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby beachbum » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:49 pm

Yeah, 10 points is pretty extreme. It seems as though most tend to score on the lower end of their (recent) PT range. Of course, there are always extremes: some drop by 10 points (or more); some outperform their PTs. Personally, I hit my PT average on the nose. Your results may differ.

acrossthelake
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:29 am

10 points is too extreme. Some do better than average(I did), though you'd expect that statistically. I think it tends to be due to the pressure and anxiety, which usually messes with your working memory. So staying calm, while easier said than does, is a good way to counter it. Practicing under similar conditions will help as well, though it might not curb your anxiety.

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Anaconda
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby Anaconda » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:36 am

acrossthelake wrote:10 points is too extreme. Some do better than average(I did), though you'd expect that statistically. I think it tends to be due to the pressure and anxiety, which usually messes with your working memory. So staying calm, while easier said than does, is a good way to counter it. Practicing under similar conditions will help as well, though it might not curb your anxiety.


What kind of environment would you consider "ideal conditions"? I feel public places are so distracting because everyone is doing their own thing and talking and making noise - but on the test you'd have dozens of people sitting down next to you taking the test. On the other hand taking the test in your own home playing the virtual proctor dvd or something similar doesn't seem to get the job done either. What would you recommend?

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legalease9
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby legalease9 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:48 am

I actually did more or less the exact same on the real thing that I did in PT's.

acrossthelake
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:06 am

Anaconda wrote:
acrossthelake wrote:10 points is too extreme. Some do better than average(I did), though you'd expect that statistically. I think it tends to be due to the pressure and anxiety, which usually messes with your working memory. So staying calm, while easier said than does, is a good way to counter it. Practicing under similar conditions will help as well, though it might not curb your anxiety.


What kind of environment would you consider "ideal conditions"? I feel public places are so distracting because everyone is doing their own thing and talking and making noise - but on the test you'd have dozens of people sitting down next to you taking the test. On the other hand taking the test in your own home playing the virtual proctor dvd or something similar doesn't seem to get the job done either. What would you recommend?


I just changed locations a lot so that I didn't get too used to any one setting. Sometimes when I PT'ed it was quiet, sometimes it was noisy, etc. I actually had to deal with a lot of random noise when I practiced at home, because my family continued on normally, making all sorts of noises from cooking, talking, the television etc. Same thing when practicing in my dorm--sometimes the hallways are quiet...sometimes freshmen think that setting up a mini-golf course in the hallway is incredibly practical.

I also had the benefit of taking the exam at my undergrad, and I actually went and took a practice test in the room itself early on Saturday morning the weekend before. It didn't have the people, but it was nice having done a PT in the exact room. Most people can't probably swing that, but if you can, I do feel it helped me stay calm on test day.

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jdstl
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby jdstl » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:18 am

I think the best way to estimate the difference between PT scores and your real score is "knowing yourself."

If you are prone to stress and panic attacks, plan to do a little worse on the real thing than on your PT's. Focus on practicing in noisy environments

If you find your concentration drifting during day to day tasks and but tend to be able to focus intensely in important situations, you can maybe even expect to better on the real thing.

I did better on the real test than my PT's (174 average PT, 177 high, pulled a 180 on the real thing). I attribute the the result more to the way my brain works (and luck!) than to any particular preparation method, etc. My concentration tends to drift (something which happened with annoying frequency during PT's), but I can go into hyper-focus when the moment calls for it.

If you score far below your PT range, there's always a retake.

acrossthelake
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby acrossthelake » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:19 am

jdstl wrote:I think the best way to estimate the difference between PT scores and your real score is "knowing yourself."

If you are prone to stress and panic attacks, plan to do a little worse on the real thing than on your PT's. Focus on practicing in noisy environments

If you find your concentration drifting during day to day tasks and but tend to be able to focus intensely in important situations, you can maybe even expect to better on the real thing.

I did better on the real test than my PT's (174 average PT, 177 high, pulled a 180 on the real thing). I attribute the the result more to the way my brain works (and luck!) than to any particular preparation method, etc. My concentration tends to drift (something which happened with annoying frequency during PT's), but I can go into hyper-focus when the moment calls for it.

If you score far below your PT range, there's always a retake.


Enjoy Harvard. (and maybe Stanford or Yale).

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kazu
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby kazu » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:41 am

acrossthelake wrote:I just changed locations a lot so that I didn't get too used to any one setting. Sometimes when I PT'ed it was quiet, sometimes it was noisy, etc. I actually had to deal with a lot of random noise when I practiced at home, because my family continued on normally, making all sorts of noises from cooking, talking, the television etc. Same thing when practicing in my dorm--sometimes the hallways are quiet...sometimes freshmen think that setting up a mini-golf course in the hallway is incredibly practical.

I also had the benefit of taking the exam at my undergrad, and I actually went and took a practice test in the room itself early on Saturday morning the weekend before. It didn't have the people, but it was nice having done a PT in the exact room. Most people can't probably swing that, but if you can, I do feel it helped me stay calm on test day.


+1. This is what I did as well, except for taking a PT in the room itself. Studying in a strange/noisy place can throw you off the first few times you do it, but the point is to train yourself to not be affected by outside influences. Like all things with the LSAT, it comes with practice.

12262010
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby 12262010 » Sat Aug 14, 2010 7:17 am

mwheatley wrote:I have heard that the average person that takes the LSAT does about 10 points worse on the actual exam when compared to the PTs. Does this seem about right? Anyone have any light to shed on this?


I got my PT avg.

BeachedBrit
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby BeachedBrit » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:31 am

There was a recent poll on this for those that have taken and it pretty much showed a bell curve centered on -2 to +1 difference from PT to the real thing.

whymeohgodno
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:39 am

For those that have taken the real LSAT, is it noisy in the room? Also do you sit next to other people or is there one space splitting you guys up?

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kazu
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby kazu » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:46 am

whymeohgodno wrote:For those that have taken the real LSAT, is it noisy in the room? Also do you sit next to other people or is there one space splitting you guys up?


I'd guess it depends on the test center. Where I did it the desks were in lines with enough space in between each line for the proctors to walk through. Wasn't that noisy except for the usual frantic pencil writing / occasional cough. Friends of mine in the same building / different room complained about people in the hallways being noisy, although it wasn't a problem for me.

whymeohgodno
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:05 am

kazu wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:For those that have taken the real LSAT, is it noisy in the room? Also do you sit next to other people or is there one space splitting you guys up?


I'd guess it depends on the test center. Where I did it the desks were in lines with enough space in between each line for the proctors to walk through. Wasn't that noisy except for the usual frantic pencil writing / occasional cough. Friends of mine in the same building / different room complained about people in the hallways being noisy, although it wasn't a problem for me.


Was the room air conditioned?

mwheatley
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby mwheatley » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:16 am

Thanks for the feedback. I have a low 3.06 gpa in economics. So I need to destroy the LSAT if I want to get into my target schools. I have been practicing sections, not the whole test, on the DC metro on my way to work. I had just heard from a couple of GULC and GMU law students that they significantly worse on their actual exam.

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kazu
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby kazu » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:21 am

whymeohgodno wrote:
kazu wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:For those that have taken the real LSAT, is it noisy in the room? Also do you sit next to other people or is there one space splitting you guys up?


I'd guess it depends on the test center. Where I did it the desks were in lines with enough space in between each line for the proctors to walk through. Wasn't that noisy except for the usual frantic pencil writing / occasional cough. Friends of mine in the same building / different room complained about people in the hallways being noisy, although it wasn't a problem for me.


Was the room air conditioned?


Yep, temperature was perfect. It was actually the teensiest bit chilly for us girls so I was glad to have brought my cardigan. Boys seemed fine in t-shirts, saw one guy take his hoodie off.

Again this will probably differ by test center.

whymeohgodno
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:27 am

mwheatley wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I have a low 3.06 gpa in economics. So I need to destroy the LSAT if I want to get into my target schools. I have been practicing sections, not the whole test, on the DC metro on my way to work. I had just heard from a couple of GULC and GMU law students that they significantly worse on their actual exam.


This makes me sad...

I was expecting at least equivalent or better on my real test compared to my PT's....

There's still time to improve before October though...I guess...

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MrSoOoFLy
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby MrSoOoFLy » Sat Aug 14, 2010 2:49 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
mwheatley wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I have a low 3.06 gpa in economics. So I need to destroy the LSAT if I want to get into my target schools. I have been practicing sections, not the whole test, on the DC metro on my way to work. I had just heard from a couple of GULC and GMU law students that they significantly worse on their actual exam.


This makes me sad...

I was expecting at least equivalent or better on my real test compared to my PT's....

There's still time to improve before October though...I guess...


lol why would you expect to do better on the actual exam?

it's a WHOLE different ballpark .... Majority score lower... minority score the same... much smaller minority score better.. plus this is all relative to where you're scoring (easier to go up if you're PTs are 140s)... just don't go in their banking to score better than you are.... expect the worst, hope for the best.

whymeohgodno
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby whymeohgodno » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:24 pm

MrSoOoFLy wrote:
whymeohgodno wrote:
mwheatley wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I have a low 3.06 gpa in economics. So I need to destroy the LSAT if I want to get into my target schools. I have been practicing sections, not the whole test, on the DC metro on my way to work. I had just heard from a couple of GULC and GMU law students that they significantly worse on their actual exam.


This makes me sad...

I was expecting at least equivalent or better on my real test compared to my PT's....

There's still time to improve before October though...I guess...


lol why would you expect to do better on the actual exam?

it's a WHOLE different ballpark .... Majority score lower... minority score the same... much smaller minority score better.. plus this is all relative to where you're scoring (easier to go up if you're PTs are 140s)... just don't go in their banking to score better than you are.... expect the worst, hope for the best.


I've always done better on standardized exams on the real thing than on practice tests.

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northwood
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby northwood » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:33 pm

if you cant leave your house, then try making as many distractions as possbile. turn on the tv in another room, put on some music in another,( if no one else is home) and have a timer in another room ( forcing you to use your analog watch). While the first time i did this, i could not concentrate, but after i got used to it, i learned how to tune out the noise, and focus. ) my roomates cant ever shut up/ stop acting like idiots, so i think the day of the test will be the quietest time i have ever sat for the lsat.

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kazu
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Re: PTs vs The Real Deal

Postby kazu » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:58 pm

whymeohgodno wrote:
I've always done better on standardized exams on the real thing than on practice tests.


Same here.. but that didn't apply to the LSAT :roll:




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