Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

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baby diego
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Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby baby diego » Wed May 19, 2010 11:14 pm

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Last edited by baby diego on Fri Nov 12, 2010 11:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LSAT Blog
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby LSAT Blog » Wed May 19, 2010 11:28 pm

Some hard games:

PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)

Some hard passages:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79784

hellokitty
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby hellokitty » Wed May 19, 2010 11:34 pm

There is no way you can get some of the more recent exams? I've always heard the RC and LG on those were much harder in comparison to the older ones.

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GordonBombay
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby GordonBombay » Wed May 19, 2010 11:41 pm

2 words: Russian Art

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baby diego
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby baby diego » Thu May 20, 2010 12:00 am

Exc
LSAT Blog wrote:Some hard games:

PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)


Excellent. I've done Used/New CDs, you have to comb that sucker to figure it out. I'm going to try the rest of these 3 times each, haha.

LSAT Blog wrote:There is no way you can get some of the more recent exams?


Do links exist? Or is everything copyright?

d34d9823
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby d34d9823 » Thu May 20, 2010 12:29 am

baby diego wrote:Do links exist? Or is everything copyright?

These are not mutually exclusive, if you get my drift.

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LSAT Blog
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby LSAT Blog » Thu May 20, 2010 12:40 am

Unnumbered June 2007 LSAT: http://www.lsac.org/pdfs/SamplePTJune.pdf

:mrgreen:

In my opinion, you should take this as a full-length timed exam close to test day.

-Steve

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Knock
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby Knock » Fri May 21, 2010 3:56 am

GordonBombay wrote:2 words: Russian Art


Really? I didn't think this one was too bad. Not super easy maybe, but not one of the most difficult ones. That is, if you're talking about the French / Russian plays/novels game? Perhaps you're talking about something else, a RC passage maybe?

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Knock
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby Knock » Fri May 21, 2010 3:56 am

LSAT Blog wrote:Some hard games:

PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)

Some hard passages:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79784


Great list, got any more on it?

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Mickey Quicknumbers
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby Mickey Quicknumbers » Fri May 21, 2010 4:04 am

LSAT Blog wrote:Some hard games:

PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)

Some hard passages:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79784


I took the LSAT almost a year ago and I still remember all of these. They are not happy memories. Used/New CD's was soooo freaking time consuming.

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LSAT Blog
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby LSAT Blog » Sat May 22, 2010 5:12 pm

Knockglock wrote:
LSAT Blog wrote:Some hard games:

PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)

Some hard passages:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79784


Great list, got any more on it?


Absolutely :twisted:

PT23, Game 2 (Interviewed/Hired)
PT25, Game 2 (Tourists and Guides)
PT37, Game 3 (Bookshelves)
PT40, Game 3 (Zephyr Airlines)
PT57, Game 3 (Dinosaurs)

(Edited to include a tougher game.)
Last edited by LSAT Blog on Mon May 24, 2010 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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baby diego
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby baby diego » Sat May 22, 2010 5:40 pm

LSAT Blog wrote:PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)


I'll admit that CDs, jewelry, and window/aisle were tough, but I can answer the majority their questions when timed, and all of them when not timed. Those damn doctors at Randsborough and Souderton, though, have got me spinning. I think it's an In/Out scenario, but for the life of me I cannot synthesize the rules into a useful set of deductions. And even when I am left to simply plug things in (which I try to avoid) I'm still stumped.

I know everyone should have their weaknesses with certain kinds of games, any tips on tackling this one?

halfwaygone
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby halfwaygone » Sun May 23, 2010 9:02 am

baby diego wrote:
LSAT Blog wrote:PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)


I'll admit that CDs, jewelry, and window/aisle were tough, but I can answer the majority their questions when timed, and all of them when not timed. Those damn doctors at Randsborough and Souderton, though, have got me spinning. I think it's an In/Out scenario, but for the life of me I cannot synthesize the rules into a useful set of deductions. And even when I am left to simply plug things in (which I try to avoid) I'm still stumped.

I know everyone should have their weaknesses with certain kinds of games, any tips on tackling this one?


I just found it online and did it, but it did take me 8 minutes, which is way too long. It wasn't all that "hard" for me, as in I knew what to do with it, but it was really time consuming, particularly the first question, which required me to draw a diagram for each answer! Bah. #3 also required multiple diagrams. The rest I just had to re-diagram for each question and they were actually fairly easy.

#2, #4, and #5 just require that you follow the conditions. However, at first, they may be a little head-scratchy because if you just follow the STATED condition, you're left with, "What next?" but you have to look at what the eliminated condition is (i.e. #5: the condition of one doctor being at one practice tells you nothing until you apply what he/she NOT being at the other practice means). I just took them as far as I could, then put the diagram with the answers and went YES or NO.

#1 was annoying as all get out! I had to draw a list of S and R for each. It was really clear to answer once I did that, but... oh, the time! I can't see any better way to do it, though. Really, it only took 2 minutes to draw them all out, way too long for the question (since it took at least another minute to answer), but do-able.

#3 was also annoying, because it required me drawing out the scenarios. I felt like I did this one faster (didn't clock it like #1) than #1 though because I realized faster I'd just have to draw them all. I could tell just by reading it was either going to be 1, 2, or 0. Then it was just POE, using each set of conditions. I can't see any better way to do it, and I didn't feel 100% about it until checking the answer, but I was right.

I don't know how you get better at #3, as I never feel certain about questions like those, even when I'm right. But the other questions are really do-able. You just have to use the "not" conditions, which feels weird. Does that help any?

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baby diego
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby baby diego » Sun May 23, 2010 6:34 pm

halfwaygone wrote:I just found it online and did it, but it did take me 8 minutes, which is way too long. It wasn't all that "hard" for me, as in I knew what to do with it, but it was really time consuming, particularly the first question, which required me to draw a diagram for each answer! Bah. #3 also required multiple diagrams. The rest I just had to re-diagram for each question and they were actually fairly easy.

#2, #4, and #5 just require that you follow the conditions. However, at first, they may be a little head-scratchy because if you just follow the STATED condition, you're left with, "What next?" but you have to look at what the eliminated condition is (i.e. #5: the condition of one doctor being at one practice tells you nothing until you apply what he/she NOT being at the other practice means). I just took them as far as I could, then put the diagram with the answers and went YES or NO.

#1 was annoying as all get out! I had to draw a list of S and R for each. It was really clear to answer once I did that, but... oh, the time! I can't see any better way to do it, though. Really, it only took 2 minutes to draw them all out, way too long for the question (since it took at least another minute to answer), but do-able.

#3 was also annoying, because it required me drawing out the scenarios. I felt like I did this one faster (didn't clock it like #1) than #1 though because I realized faster I'd just have to draw them all. I could tell just by reading it was either going to be 1, 2, or 0. Then it was just POE, using each set of conditions. I can't see any better way to do it, and I didn't feel 100% about it until checking the answer, but I was right.

I don't know how you get better at #3, as I never feel certain about questions like those, even when I'm right. But the other questions are really do-able. You just have to use the "not" conditions, which feels weird. Does that help any?


Hey, I appreciate this. It does help somewhat, I'm still not clear on which deductions beyond the conditions you were able to make. I ended up taking conditions 1 and 2 and diagraming the four possible combinations of J, K, and O (and thus certain others) that they produce. This was very time-consuming, but it was the only way I was able to prevent myself from having to manually plug things in for each question. Still, it ate a lot of time.

Unnerving game, hope I don't see anything like this in June!

musicfor18
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby musicfor18 » Sun May 23, 2010 7:04 pm

I'm looking at the Randsborough/Souderton game. Aren't 2 of the conditions contradictory? Having to do with N, O and P? What am I not understanding?

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LSAT Blog
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby LSAT Blog » Sun May 23, 2010 7:17 pm

Yes, they are contradictory. This means N and P cannot be at R simultaneously. Since L at S causes N and P to be at R simultaneously, L at S can never happen.

The good news is that there's never been a game quite like this one.

I'd recommend combining the conditional statements and their contrapositives to form long conditional chains. (The negation of R is S, and vice-versa, since every doctor goes to exactly one of the two clinics.) This approach makes the fact that L cannot be at S a bit easier to spot.

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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby musicfor18 » Sun May 23, 2010 7:19 pm

LSAT Blog wrote:Yes, they are contradictory. This means N and P cannot be at R simultaneously. Since L at S causes N and P to be at R simultaneously, L at S can never happen.

The good news is that there's never been a game quite like this one.

I'd recommend combining the conditional statements and their contrapositives to form long conditional chains. (The negation of R is S, and vice-versa, since every doctor goes to exactly one of the two clinics.) This approach makes the fact that L cannot be at S a bit easier to spot.


Thanks. I spotted this right away, but thought it was an error.

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LSAT Blog
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby LSAT Blog » Sun May 23, 2010 7:34 pm

Glad to help.

LSAC has never withdrawn an LG question from scoring.

Btw, instead of saying contradictory, it's probably better to phrase it as something like:

"N at R" and "P at R" are mutually exclusive.

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baby diego
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby baby diego » Sun May 23, 2010 11:39 pm

LSAT Blog wrote:The good news is that there's never been a game quite like this one.


Is this true? How about something similar?

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FutureApplicant
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby FutureApplicant » Mon May 24, 2010 12:55 am

For the doctors at S/R game:

Write out every rule and its contrapositive in "2-value" format, as LGB calls it.

That is, don't write something that signifies "not K at R" but rather "K at S" (I did this with subscripts).

Connect up all the rules and contrapositives into two long causal chains.

Once all that is done, the questions are manageable, although it's still one of the hardest games I've ever done.
Last edited by FutureApplicant on Wed Jun 16, 2010 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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FutureApplicant
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby FutureApplicant » Mon May 24, 2010 12:58 am

p.s. I happened to do three of the five games originally listed by LSAT Blog all in the same afternoon. I didn't finish any of them on time, and came away feeling extremely frustrated and discouraged. Then by chance I popped onto TLS and found this thread, and felt a bit better. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who struggled with these games.

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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby LSAT Blog » Mon May 24, 2010 4:29 pm

FutureApplicant wrote:p.s. I happened to do three of the five games originally listed by LSAT Blog all in the same afternoon. I didn't finish any of them on time, and came away feeling extremely frustrated and discouraged. Then by chance I popped onto TLS and found this thread, and felt a bit better. I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who struggled with these games.


Please try not to be frustrated or discouraged by these games. After all, they are some of the hardest ones.

The real value in doing them is NOT to gauge your ability - it's to learn from them.

Even if you have trouble with them the first time, you can still do fine with LG on Test Day. Think of these games as more stuff to add to your library of LG knowledge.

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theZeigs
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby theZeigs » Fri May 28, 2010 9:18 am

I'd like to throw another game into the hat.

PT 55 game 4, "buses"



LSAT Blog wrote:Please try not to be frustrated or discouraged by these games. After all, they are some of the hardest ones.

The real value in doing them is NOT to gauge your ability - it's to learn from them.

Even if you have trouble with them the first time, you can still do fine with LG on Test Day. Think of these games as more stuff to add to your library of LG knowledge.


Thank you so much, it is posts like this that really demonstrate the value of these forums and save it from threadcrappers and flamers.

I only hope that on test day, LSAC doesn't decide to drop a ridiculous game like one of these on us.

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Knock
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby Knock » Fri May 28, 2010 12:01 pm

theZeigs wrote:I'd like to throw another game into the hat.

PT 55 game 4, "buses"



LSAT Blog wrote:Please try not to be frustrated or discouraged by these games. After all, they are some of the hardest ones.

The real value in doing them is NOT to gauge your ability - it's to learn from them.

Even if you have trouble with them the first time, you can still do fine with LG on Test Day. Think of these games as more stuff to add to your library of LG knowledge.


Thank you so much, it is posts like this that really demonstrate the value of these forums and save it from threadcrappers and flamers.

I only hope that on test day, LSAC doesn't decide to drop a ridiculous game like one of these on us.


Just took this game yesterday. After the first 3 games, I had 15 minutes left. So I wasn't exactly rushing through the bus game. But by the time I finished, I had about 2/3 minutes left.

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stintez
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Re: Hardest Game/Hardest RC Passage??

Postby stintez » Fri May 28, 2010 12:07 pm

LSAT Blog wrote:
Knockglock wrote:
LSAT Blog wrote:Some hard games:

PT27, Game 2 (Lizards/Snakes)
PT31, Game 2 (Used/New CDs)
PT33, Game 3 (Jewelry - Rubies, Sapphires, Topazes)
PT34, Game 4 (Randsborough/Souderton Clinics)
PT36, Game 3 (Window/Aisle Bus Game)

Some hard passages:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79784


Great list, got any more on it?


Absolutely :twisted:

PT23, Game 2 (Interviewed/Hired)
PT25, Game 2 (Tourists and Guides)
PT37, Game 3 (Bookshelves)
PT40, Game 3 (Zephyr Airlines)
PT57, Game 3 (Dinosaurs)

(Edited to include a tougher game.)


I FUCKING HATE THE INTERVIEWED HIRED GAME!!




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