Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

artlaw
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:25 am

Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby artlaw » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:54 am

I believe I must write an appeal letter to LSAC but hopefully somebody here can provide some better advice.

My test was confiscated during the LSAT 30 seconds after the break because as I was trying to remove my cell phone battery. I must have touched two or more buttons on the side of the phone, while it was in my hand, and it caused a weird noise. No warning. Confiscation.

Is writing an appeal letter to LSAC my only option?
Is this a situation where a "warning" should have been given instead?

Details of how it happened (if interested)
-- I brought cell phone because son was very sick and wanted to check on him during break.
-- During break I called but was last one in door returning to classroom.
-- As soon as proctor said "you may begin" I remembered I didn't shut cell phone off.
-- Quickly grabbed cell phone and turned ringer to "off"
-- Unfortunately (panic, for some reason in violation of rules) I decided to remove battery too!
-- Silicone case prevented that. I removed it and placed it on desk in front of me.
-- Cell battery case would not come off. Gripped phone tightly to remove it --- weird noise.
They Confiscated Test
... also, I was sitting directly in front row, directly in front of proctor.

I know what I did disrupted the class. I was not cheating.
I know it is a very important test and I disrupted people that may have spent a year studying, so please no moral lecturing. I feel badly enough already.
I'm just looking for writing appeal direction.
Thank you.

User avatar
LadyTarHeelian
Posts: 99
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 10:59 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby LadyTarHeelian » Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:57 am

I believe there is a rule against bringing cell phones into the testing room at all. I understand you had a good reason for wanting to do so but I fear you won't have much of a leg to stand on in an appeal. :( I hope I'm wrong for your sake.

AsylumPB
Posts: 113
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 7:30 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby AsylumPB » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:03 am

I had a similar situation with my son being sick during my test (he was only 3 months old at the time). I went out to my car during break and called to check in on him, but then left my phone in the car. He had his mother with him in case anything happened, so I wasn't too worried about him. I can understand you wanting to check on your son, but to violate one of the major rules of the LSAT by bringing the phone back into the room was a brain-fart moment. As the previous poster said, I don't think an appeal will hold any water.

Xiaolong
Posts: 144
Joined: Mon Feb 02, 2009 11:30 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Xiaolong » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 am

Whats the use of an appeal at this point though? I mean your score would be horrible since you didn't finish two sections and I do not think you would get a free retake since you clearly violated the rules, i.e. not bringing cell phones into the testing center. I really don't think an appeal is doing anything for you.

On the the upside though, if you write an addendum when you apply, hoepfully schools will not hold the incident against you.

AffirmativeOffense
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Oct 18, 2009 5:25 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby AffirmativeOffense » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 am

You struggled with your cell phone to get the battery out while taking the exam? That's bizarre. You broke the rule by bringing it in and then acted weird once you had it in there. I seriously doubt you can successfully appeal this.

User avatar
Kiersten1985
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:08 am

I agree with above, since the phone shouldn't have been with you at all. I think you'll probably have to re-take. Be sure to write an addendum explaining what happened and take responsibility for breaking a rule of the test (no phones) but also mention that your son was sick and that's why you had it. I don't think it sounds excuse-y.

User avatar
Pricer
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Pricer » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:10 am

Items Prohibited at the Test Center
You may not bring into the testing room any of the following: electronic timers of any kind, beeping watches, alarm watches, calculator watches, cellular phones, beepers, pagers, personal digital assistants (PDAs), hats/hoods (except items of religious apparel), books, dictionaries, papers of any kind, calculators, rulers, slide rules, compasses, mechanical pencils, briefcases, handbags, backpacks, earplugs, headsets, photographic or recording devices, listening devices, electronic devices of any kind, weapons or firearms.
IMPORTANT: Electronic devices, including cell phones, are not permitted in the test center, and the use of any electronic device is strictly prohibited. Any test taker discovered using or having in his or her possession an electronic device, including but not limited to cell phones, pay phones, pagers, iPods™ or other media players, or personal computers will be dismissed from the test. This policy will be enforced from the time test takers arrive at the test center until they leave at the conclusion of the test—including the break. Violations will be grounds for score cancellation and review by the Misconduct and Irregularities in the Admission Process Subcommittee. LSAC and test center staff assume no responsibility for personal items.


source: http://www.lsac.org/LSAT/day-of-test.asp

Since LSAC says you can't have a cell phone at all, this could be complicated. I don't know if you are going to be able to appeal to a committee when the rules are explicitly stated on the website, the second AND third page when printing out the ticket, and the proctor reads them out loud before the test. You knowingly brought your phone into the testing center, used it during break, and had it on your desk during the beginning of the fourth section. Even though you felt you had good reason, LSAC is more than likely going to view it as a blatant disrespect for the rules. Not to be a downer, but I just don't think you are going to be able to do anything about this. I do wish you the best, though.

User avatar
Kiersten1985
Posts: 784
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2009 3:36 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Kiersten1985 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:15 am

Pricer wrote:
Items Prohibited at the Test Center
You may not bring into the testing room any of the following: electronic timers of any kind, beeping watches, alarm watches, calculator watches, cellular phones, beepers, pagers, personal digital assistants (PDAs), hats/hoods (except items of religious apparel), books, dictionaries, papers of any kind, calculators, rulers, slide rules, compasses, mechanical pencils, briefcases, handbags, backpacks, earplugs, headsets, photographic or recording devices, listening devices, electronic devices of any kind, weapons or firearms.
IMPORTANT: Electronic devices, including cell phones, are not permitted in the test center, and the use of any electronic device is strictly prohibited. Any test taker discovered using or having in his or her possession an electronic device, including but not limited to cell phones, pay phones, pagers, iPods™ or other media players, or personal computers will be dismissed from the test. This policy will be enforced from the time test takers arrive at the test center until they leave at the conclusion of the test—including the break. Violations will be grounds for score cancellation and review by the Misconduct and Irregularities in the Admission Process Subcommittee. LSAC and test center staff assume no responsibility for personal items.


source: http://www.lsac.org/LSAT/day-of-test.asp

Since LSAC says you can't have a cell phone at all, this could be complicated.


It won't be that complicated, though. They're just going to deny the appeal straight away.

User avatar
Ragged
Posts: 1509
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 12:39 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Ragged » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:18 am

If I were you I would give my son a beating when I got home...

artlaw
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:25 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby artlaw » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:20 am

Thank you for all the understanding and advice. I do appreciate it.

In life we must accept what is our responsibility for what we created. I have no illusions that I did not break a rule and thereby did not negatively affect others around me. For that I have no recourse, nor should I.

I was under, mistakenly perhaps, impression that I would be branded a cheater on the LSAT, as well. My appeal letter is intended to address the topic of cheating rather than rule breaking. I have no defense against the rule violation, regardless of my emotional motivations. It is the concept of 'cheater' hanging over my head that I wish to defend.

I did not realize my score would appear without the last two sections complete. I should cancel immediately. Yes?

User avatar
Pricer
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Pricer » Wed Feb 10, 2010 11:24 am

artlaw wrote:
I did not realize my score would appear without the last two sections complete. I should cancel immediately. Yes?


If that is an option, then yes. It may have been cancelled automatically. Also, as many above me have mentioned, if you retake the test and do well on it, I am sure an honest addendum to whatever law schools you apply to will clear up this situation. I feel like law schools are more forgiving than LSAC.

dynomite
Posts: 143
Joined: Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:58 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby dynomite » Wed Feb 10, 2010 12:13 pm

Pricer wrote:I feel like law schools are more forgiving than LSAC.


Yes. Especially if you couch this as a brain-fart ("I knew the rule and meant to put the phone back in my car after the break, but out of habit slipped it into my pocket. When I realized my error back in the test room, I tried to remove the battery to eliminate any appearance of impropriety and was dismissed from the testing center.")

I would call LSAT, however, to ask how this event will be described on your file -- I would assume it will say "Dismissed for Possession of Forbidden Object in Test Room" or something vague.

artlaw
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:25 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby artlaw » Wed Feb 10, 2010 1:36 pm

Thanks everyone! Thanks Dynomite; I'll do that.

User avatar
Pricer
Posts: 558
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 9:25 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Pricer » Wed Feb 10, 2010 2:15 pm

dynomite wrote:
Pricer wrote:I feel like law schools are more forgiving than LSAC.


Yes. Especially if you couch this as a brain-fart ("I knew the rule and meant to put the phone back in my car after the break, but out of habit slipped it into my pocket. When I realized my error back in the test room, I tried to remove the battery to eliminate any appearance of impropriety and was dismissed from the testing center.")

I would call LSAT, however, to ask how this event will be described on your file -- I would assume it will say "Dismissed for Possession of Forbidden Object in Test Room" or something vague.


Bad idea. The rules specifically state that you cannot use a phone during break.

albanach
Posts: 1011
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby albanach » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:06 pm

According to the LSAC site, "Violations will be grounds for score cancellation and review by the Misconduct and Irregularities in the Admission Process Subcommittee."

You may wish to send a short letter explaining the situation, if only to ensure they let you retake. That and a succinct addendum when it comes to app time.

User avatar
raperez129
Posts: 265
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 11:23 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby raperez129 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:15 pm

albanach wrote:According to the LSAC site, "Violations will be grounds for score cancellation and review by the Misconduct and Irregularities in the Admission Process Subcommittee."

You may wish to send a short letter explaining the situation, if only to ensure they let you retake. That and a succinct addendum when it comes to app time.



Ditto that. I think if you do that as step one, retake step two, and then offer and explanation for step three, you should be okay.

User avatar
Mr. Matlock
Posts: 1360
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:36 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Feb 10, 2010 3:17 pm

I wonder... Back in the early 1990's, around the time the wheel and cell phone were invented, how many children suffered/died because their parents had no way of checking on them with a cell phone during a 4 hour period of time?

artlaw
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Feb 10, 2010 10:25 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby artlaw » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:37 pm

Yes, Albanach, your two-step approach is what I will do. Thank you!

As for Mr. Matlock and Ragged, my son had contracted blood poisoning (as a result of an allergic reaction to fire ant bites) and it was traveling in a red line towards his heart. You may be relieved to know the antibiotics, etc, were able to halt the progress so he can continue his childhood. These things tend to increase or decrease in severity hour-by-hour. Thank you for your indirect concern.

So often in life how we help others does not forge our character, but instead it reveals it.
My best wishes to your present or future children.

User avatar
jks289
Posts: 1415
Joined: Sun Nov 01, 2009 9:42 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby jks289 » Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:39 pm

artlaw wrote:Yes, Albanach, your two-step approach is what I will do. Thank you!

As for Mr. Matlock and Ragged, my son had contracted blood poisoning (as a result of an allergic reaction to fire ant bites) and it was traveling in a red line towards his heart. You may be relieved to know the antibiotics, etc, were able to halt the progress so he can continue his childhood. These things tend to increase or decrease in severity hour-by-hour. Thank you for your indirect concern.

So often in life how we help others does not forge our character, but instead it reveals it.
My best wishes to your present or future children.


Yikes, glad to hear he is ok. If it is of any comfort, it is really unlikely you were going to score your best under the circumstances. Even if you didn't feel it, that kind of pressure is a lot to take on test day. Write an addendum to schools and retake. I doubt it will have any real impact.

User avatar
Mr. Matlock
Posts: 1360
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:36 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:13 pm

artlaw wrote:Yes, Albanach, your two-step approach is what I will do. Thank you!

As for Mr. Matlock and Ragged, my son had contracted blood poisoning (as a result of an allergic reaction to fire ant bites) and it was traveling in a red line towards his heart. You may be relieved to know the antibiotics, etc, were able to halt the progress so he can continue his childhood. These things tend to increase or decrease in severity hour-by-hour. Thank you for your indirect concern.

So often in life how we help others does not forge our character, but instead it reveals it.
My best wishes to your present or future children.

Well thank you artlaw.

As a parent of a 5 year old daughter, I can assure you if she had contacted ANYTHING that placed her life at risk, the last thing on my mind would be a 4 hour LSAT exam.

You see, I value my child above all other things. I would never risk the integrity of a testing environment by being so selfish as to place the importance of my life above those people around me. Some special snowflakes, though, figure the rules certainly don't apply to their situations. These people feel entitled to jeopardize the concentration and momentum of the people around them. What is going on in their lives is certainly not more important than yours.

I feel no pity or sorrow for your LSAT situation whatsoever. If pity is to be given, it's to anyone who was disturbed by your actions. I do however, wish your son a full and speedy recovery. But that is an entirely separate issue. I may seem cold and uncaring, but I place value on the integrity of the process and the fairness for ALL of those concerned. We all have to weigh our values and options in life. And now we all know where you placed yours.

Good day to you.

User avatar
Nom Sawyer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:19 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:
artlaw wrote:Yes, Albanach, your two-step approach is what I will do. Thank you!

As for Mr. Matlock and Ragged, my son had contracted blood poisoning (as a result of an allergic reaction to fire ant bites) and it was traveling in a red line towards his heart. You may be relieved to know the antibiotics, etc, were able to halt the progress so he can continue his childhood. These things tend to increase or decrease in severity hour-by-hour. Thank you for your indirect concern.

So often in life how we help others does not forge our character, but instead it reveals it.
My best wishes to your present or future children.

Well thank you artlaw.

As a parent of a 5 year old daughter, I can assure you if she had contacted ANYTHING that placed her life at risk, the last thing on my mind would be a 4 hour LSAT exam.

You see, I value my child above all other things. I would never risk the integrity of a testing environment by being so selfish as to place the importance of my life above those people around me. Some special snowflakes, though, figure the rules certainly don't apply to their situations. These people feel entitled to jeopardize the concentration and momentum of the people around them. What is going on in their lives is certainly not more important than yours.

I feel no pity or sorrow for your LSAT situation whatsoever. If pity is to be given, it's to anyone who was disturbed by your actions. I do however, wish your son a full and speedy recovery. But that is an entirely separate issue. I may seem cold and uncaring, but I place value on the integrity of the process and the fairness for ALL of those concerned. We all have to weigh our values and options in life. And now we all know where you placed yours.

Good day to you.


That's harsh Mr. Matlock... I mean yeah, she broke the rules, and sure she definitely deserves the cancellation...

but equating "somebody feels like a special snowflake" with wanting to stay up to date on the life threatening condition of their son? If you are a parent... you should know that emotion overcomes reason sometimes, and especially in cases like that. But anyways if it was me I probably just wouldn't have taken the test if something like this was going on and waited till later.

Good luck on your next test artlaw

User avatar
Mr. Matlock
Posts: 1360
Joined: Thu Nov 27, 2008 6:36 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Mr. Matlock » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:49 pm

Nom Sawyer wrote:
Mr. Matlock wrote:
artlaw wrote:Yes, Albanach, your two-step approach is what I will do. Thank you!

As for Mr. Matlock and Ragged, my son had contracted blood poisoning (as a result of an allergic reaction to fire ant bites) and it was traveling in a red line towards his heart. You may be relieved to know the antibiotics, etc, were able to halt the progress so he can continue his childhood. These things tend to increase or decrease in severity hour-by-hour. Thank you for your indirect concern.

So often in life how we help others does not forge our character, but instead it reveals it.
My best wishes to your present or future children.

Well thank you artlaw.

As a parent of a 5 year old daughter, I can assure you if she had contacted ANYTHING that placed her life at risk, the last thing on my mind would be a 4 hour LSAT exam.

You see, I value my child above all other things. I would never risk the integrity of a testing environment by being so selfish as to place the importance of my life above those people around me. Some special snowflakes, though, figure the rules certainly don't apply to their situations. These people feel entitled to jeopardize the concentration and momentum of the people around them. What is going on in their lives is certainly not more important than yours.

I feel no pity or sorrow for your LSAT situation whatsoever. If pity is to be given, it's to anyone who was disturbed by your actions. I do however, wish your son a full and speedy recovery. But that is an entirely separate issue. I may seem cold and uncaring, but I place value on the integrity of the process and the fairness for ALL of those concerned. We all have to weigh our values and options in life. And now we all know where you placed yours.

Good day to you.


That's harsh Mr. Matlock... I mean yeah, she broke the rules, and sure she definitely deserves the cancellation...

but equating "somebody feels like a special snowflake" with wanting to stay up to date on the life threatening condition of their son? If you are a parent... you should know that emotion overcomes reason sometimes, and especially in cases like that. But anyways if it was me I probably just wouldn't have taken the test if something like this was going on and waited till later.

Good luck on your next test artlaw

Well, we'll agree to disagree. I see this as a black and white issue. I don't see any gray. The rule serves 2 purposes:

1. To prevent the sharing of LSAT information via the cell phone.
2. To ensure an environment free from disruptions.

I could say the law was partly made to protect us from people like the OP. Doesn't work though when people place their own situation above everyone else. As future lawyers, we should value reason and judgment at a very high level. To me, this demonstrates a major fail.

Just one man's opinion.

CMDantes
Posts: 420
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:37 pm

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby CMDantes » Wed Feb 10, 2010 8:57 pm

...
Last edited by CMDantes on Mon May 03, 2010 4:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Nom Sawyer
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Jun 14, 2009 1:28 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby Nom Sawyer » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:03 pm

Mr. Matlock wrote:I wonder... Back in the early 1990's, around the time the wheel and cell phone were invented, how many children suffered/died because their parents had no way of checking on them with a cell phone during a 4 hour period of time?


I agree with your reasoning on the LSAT... but your tone throughout.. especially this quote from above... seemed to be misplaced given your lack of knowledge in the situation. Just saying that it was bit harsh thats all

User avatar
vanwinkle
Posts: 9740
Joined: Sun Dec 21, 2008 3:02 am

Re: Feb test confiscated after break ... advice please?

Postby vanwinkle » Wed Feb 10, 2010 9:04 pm

It's a harsh rule, indeed. LSAC seems to apply strict liability, meaning that if there is evidence you violated a rule, you are automatically disciplined for it. This strong measure is meant to discourage others from violating the rules in the future and to convince them that they cannot break the rules an then talk their way out of it later.

I'm not going to judge you for it, it's just a mistake and I understand that, but LSAC likely sees this as part of the greater issue of preserving the sanctity of the test. You will get the chance to explain yourself in an addendum to law schools when you apply, but you likely cannot get it removed from your LSAC reports.




Return to “LSAT Prep and Discussion Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 34iplaw, DumbHollywoodActor, Thomas Hagan, ESQ., VMars, Vursz and 16 guests