LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

dodgerfan23
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LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby dodgerfan23 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:35 pm

Dear TLS Forum Members,

I was studying a Reading Comprehension passage yesterday and noticed that my sister started to ask why I had purchased an extra study prep book or two. She later told me that with the LSAT you either "have it or you dont". Is this true? Is the LSAT really just a test of innate ability and that if you are scoring lets say in the mid 150's you are destined to stay hovering around that score? Or can you with lets hard work and practice bump that up to the mid 160's?

Someone help me out.

Thank you!

09042014
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:36 pm

dodgerfan23 wrote:Dear TLS Forum Members,

I was studying a Reading Comprehension passage yesterday and noticed that my sister started to ask why I had purchased an extra study prep book or two. She later told me that with the LSAT you either "have it or you dont". Is this true? Is the LSAT really just a test of innate ability and that if you are scoring lets say in the mid 150's you are destined to stay hovering around that score? Or can you with lets hard work and practice bump that up to the mid 160's?

Someone help me out.

Thank you!


The LSAT is one of the most learn able standardized tests out there. Its not unheard of for takers to climb 20 points with dedicated study.

savesthedayajb
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby savesthedayajb » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:37 pm

dodgerfan23 wrote:Dear TLS Forum Members,

I was studying a Reading Comprehension passage yesterday and noticed that my sister started to ask why I had purchased an extra study prep book or two. She later told me that with the LSAT you either "have it or you dont". Is this true? Is the LSAT really just a test of innate ability and that if you are scoring lets say in the mid 150's you are destined to stay hovering around that score? Or can you with lets hard work and practice bump that up to the mid 160's?

Someone help me out.

Thank you!


She is wrong! Yeah some people might not be able to improve much on the test. But from what I've seen/heard/read/experienced the test is extremely learn-able. Lots of effort is needed to gain points but it isn't anywhere near impossible to go from min 150s to 170s. So study hard!

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BaiAilian2013
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby BaiAilian2013 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:40 pm

It's a combination. Some people will have to work much harder than others for the same score, and some people might never achieve super high scores, but everyone can improve.

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joeshmo39
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby joeshmo39 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:42 pm

going up 10 points is pretty common from people I've talked to. 10 points at least I mean. Tell your sister she is very wrong. I would not be surprised if some people can pick up 8 or 10 points in the analytical reasoning/logic games section alone.

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quetzalcoatl
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby quetzalcoatl » Fri Jan 08, 2010 6:54 pm

LR is probably the hardest to improve with studying. LG is where studying really pays off. If you compare the LSAT to a pure IQ test then studying makes a huge difference in your score. If you compare the LSAT to the MCAT then not so much.

tomwatts
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby tomwatts » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:51 pm

I went from a 154 initial diagnostic to a 176 on test day. No standardized test exists that cannot be studied for, but the LSAT is really made for studying, especially with the large amount of released real questions.

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loser148
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby loser148 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:55 pm

I'm learning it. Some people do have the natural ability to not study and do very well. Some study a little bit. Some need to put in several months. I know one girl who took a year. But it is really learnable. Don't give up! I'm not!

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vespertiliovir
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby vespertiliovir » Fri Jan 08, 2010 9:56 pm

IMO she's right, in a sense. As with most other things academic, in spite of hard work and dedication, everyone has a ceiling.

That said, there is absolutely no reason why you should stop studying. Sure, you may only be able to score so high, but how will you know what that score is without constantly pushing yourself?

itsfine
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby itsfine » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:01 pm

i went up 15 points from my diag....but i think i just got lucky test day.


nah but seriously,
its so learnable.....ur sister could be more wrong. sure u have a ceiling, and sure if u are only allowed to take the test once and you werent allowed to practice than 'u either have it or you dont'....but u can practice this test over and over and the fact that u have a ceiling in no way is synonymous with 'you either have it or you dont'

UTexas
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby UTexas » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:41 pm

Don't listen to another word your sister has to say about the LSAT. She doesn't have a clue.

09042014
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby 09042014 » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:42 pm

UTexas wrote:Don't listen to another word your sister has to say about the LSAT. She doesn't have a clue.


And look in the LSAT subforum for a study plan.

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JazzOne
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby JazzOne » Fri Jan 08, 2010 10:44 pm

Can I meet your sister?

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vespertiliovir
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby vespertiliovir » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:03 pm

JazzOne wrote:Can I bang your sister?

Fixed

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traehekat
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby traehekat » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:26 pm

The LSAT is easy enough to learn if you study properly (meaning you do a ton of practice tests and review your answers). However, I will admit there is a possibility someone is simply a poor test taker, so in this sense I guess you can either have it or not.

Doing well on the LSAT is just a combination of studying hard and not folding under pressure during the actual test. The best way to prevent this is to do everything you can to simulate actual testing conditions.

I hope this helps!

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Cupidity
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby Cupidity » Fri Jan 08, 2010 11:29 pm

Yes and no,

I teach an LSAT course, there are some people who, with all the study in the world will never break into the 150's. I think if you have the potential to get into the 160's, you could study your way to an 180

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Xizenta
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby Xizenta » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:05 am

Cupidity wrote:Yes and no,

I teach an LSAT course, there are some people who, with all the study in the world will never break into the 150's. I think if you have the potential to get into the 160's, you could study your way to an 180


hahah, that is just wrong.

To answer your question, OP.
It really depends on how much studying you've done thus far. If you spend 15 good hours studying for the Logic Games section, you have really improved to within 10 points of your potential.

IE diag 150, after 15 hours maybe 160... after that, it could take another 100+ hours of studying to break 170... and for most people even this is too high of a goal.

jason8821
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby jason8821 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:06 am

I certainly don't claim to be an expert on the LSAT, Hell I spent 200 hours to go from a 145 to a 158 so far, but the answers above do not seem accuarate based on the hundred plus hours I've spent on this forum.

I recently started a thread that asked how to improve on RC. Several people chimed in saying that they improved 5-10 points, also a 12-15 point gain on LG is very realistic if you start off terribly, and plenty of people have added 10 points on their raw score for each section of LR, add this all together, and there are plenty people throughout LSAT history (many of those with posts on TLS) who have added 35-40 on their raw score.

Although extremely rare I have read about people who gained 30 points on their LSAT, and there a quite a few people on here who have mentioned gaining 20+ points from their initial diagnostic.

I am a firm believer that reading speed is the most important thing to improve on. Personally it took me more than 15 hours to get a good grasp on the games, and after 15 hours I still got like 10/23, but after 20-25 hours I got 17/23 regularly, in fact, I am so confident on the games that I stopped worrying about them for a while well focusing on the other sections.

It just depends on the person, and how fast you learn the test.

Given one year with a personal tutor, and a ton of drive most people could probably go 140's to the high 160's or >170 but very few people have both the resources and the drive, and one of the two might not cut it. I have the drive, but I have only spent $15 thus far on all things LSAT related.

I know people will disagree with me, but the majority of the above posts seem like rubbish.

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rw2264
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby rw2264 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:10 am

your sister is being a huge debbie downer/negative nancy. tell her to stop trying to kill your confidence!

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mallard
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby mallard » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:12 am

Rate your sister on a 120-180 scale.

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jawsthegreat
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby jawsthegreat » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:13 am

I went from a 156 to a 173 and i didn't really study that hard.

jason8821
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby jason8821 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:16 am

traehekat wrote:The LSAT is easy enough to learn if you study properly (meaning you do a ton of practice tests and review your answers). However, I will admit there is a possibility someone is simply a poor test taker, so in this sense I guess you can either have it or not.

Doing well on the LSAT is just a combination of studying hard and not folding under pressure during the actual test. The best way to prevent this is to do everything you can to simulate actual testing conditions.

I hope this helps!


Also I do agree with the second half of this post. If you are not burnt out, and you do not suffer from test anxiety any person who scores relatively low on the diagnostic will be able make a very substantial leap if they learn the material. If you have test anxiety, fork over the money to see a hypnotist, I have done this in other areas an it helps immensely.

There are always ways around problems. The real problem is that most people always stop at the road blocks. Also this site misconstrues a lot of information due to the fact that most people here are very intelligent, and score well on what is possibly the most difficult standardized test.

Unless you attended an elite undergrad, your friends who took the lsat would probably be very impressed with anything over 160, and don't worry a ton about the diagnostic. I think most people up their diagnostic a bit because they learn a little about the test, and then take a diagnostic. If everyone took a cold diagnostic with no previous knowledge of the test, I guarantee it would not average over 145.

jason8821
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby jason8821 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:16 am

I'm done with this diatribe, back to jersey shore.

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vespertiliovir
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby vespertiliovir » Sat Jan 09, 2010 2:44 am

jason8821 wrote:I'm done with this diatribe, back to jersey shore.

--LinkRemoved--

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Trifles
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Re: LSAT: Is it really whether you have it or you dont?

Postby Trifles » Sat Jan 09, 2010 4:08 am

I went up about 20 points over a few weeks and 11 practice tests, the LSAT is learnable, at least for some people.




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