177 --> 180 ?

Paix
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177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:33 am

Theoretically, assume one is scoring around 177 on PTs after self-study. What would you advise such a person to do in the final month to increase the chances of 180?

WhatToDo21
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby WhatToDo21 » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:39 am

Paix wrote:Theoretically, assume one is scoring around 177 on PTs after self-study. What would you advise such a person to do in the final month to increase the chances of 180?


LOL

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Ragged
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Ragged » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:42 am

Have a good diet and good sleep schedule so that you do your best on the actual test. And well, do more of the same as far at PTs go I guess.

holborn
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby holborn » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:42 am

hope you get the kind of game you like...

this question is seriously retarded. Youre talking like 1 question difference on some scales. So maybe bubble faster so you never run out of time? make sure you don't misread a LR question? get lucky?

BenJ
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby BenJ » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:44 am

Have good luck. If you're scoring a 177 sometimes, you're also scoring a 180 sometimes. No one scores 180s consistently, not even the very best. Relax the day before, sleep 9+ hours the night before, and eat breakfast. The difference in terms of admissions between a 177 and a 180 is minimal.

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:53 am

Running out of time doesn't seem to be a problem.

There are still 1-2 LR questions per test where it's genuinely hard to decide between two answers (B seems to pretty good but not great... so does E). As long as those questions exist, there's room for improvement. The challenge is figuring out a pattern with a low number of questions in that category.

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:54 am

julesm2200 wrote:hope you get the kind of game you like...

this question is seriously retarded. Youre talking like 1 question difference on some scales. So maybe bubble faster so you never run out of time? make sure you don't misread a LR question? get lucky?


177 to 180 is at least 2-3 questions on most scales

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:55 am

julesm2200 wrote:hope you get the kind of game you like...

this question is seriously retarded. Youre talking like 1 question difference on some scales. So maybe bubble faster so you never run out of time? make sure you don't misread a LR question? get lucky?


Also, I've always said that luck is being prepared so that, even if everything goes wrong, it doesn't screw you.

holborn
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby holborn » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:55 am

Paix wrote:Running out of time doesn't seem to be a problem.

There are still 1-2 LR questions per test where it's genuinely hard to decide between two answers (B seems to pretty good but not great... so does E). As long as those questions exist, there's room for improvement. The challenge is figuring out a pattern with a low number of questions in that category.



um, keep practicing. if youre capable of scoring a 177, youre capable of knowing that this is how you get better at things.

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MBZags
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby MBZags » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:58 am

Isn't this really just a ploy to feel good about yourself on the Internet?

holborn
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby holborn » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:03 am

MBZags wrote:Isn't this really just a ploy to feel good about yourself on the Internet?


yes.

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tomhobbes
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby tomhobbes » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:59 am

There's no secret to getting a 180 that all the masters have and the rest don't. Be really good and really lucky. If you're really good and kind of lucky you'll get what you get in practice, or a couple points lower.

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GeePee
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby GeePee » Wed Jan 06, 2010 4:05 am

There's no way to really guarantee 180, even if you hit it on practice tests 5 times before game day. Take the test 1 question at a time and try to be in top shape. However, it's painfully hard to sleep well before the test; I think I got about 2 hours of sleep the night before. Plus, there's always a chance you'll misread a question or misbubble something (I did both on test day).

Despite the fact that I PT'ed at 180 several times, I scored 175 on the exam. You'll eventually realize, though that once you get to 175+ your actual score doesn't matter much. You should always be shooting for 180, but in all honesty you'll need at least a little bit of luck to actually hit it.

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MURPH
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby MURPH » Wed Jan 06, 2010 5:51 am

First, I am jealous and I hate you. Now, Go over every wrong answer again and again. Try to finish the test in 30 minutes (or 31 or 33 or whatever) so that you can take your time with the tough ones on test day. Diet,exercise and mental health stuff will help.

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sayan
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby sayan » Wed Jan 06, 2010 6:00 am

Reduce time per section to 30 minutes. Study in unfamiliar places (various libraries... coffee shop if you really want a challenge).

These won't necessarily help you increase your score directly but they will help you become more consistent so you will have a better chance of hitting a 180. Once you're at 175+, consistency and reliability on your test-taking performance is more important than accuracy.

Most of the people I read about hitting 180 say it was luck. They had been PTing a little lower (176-177) average and ended up hitting the high end of the scale or even higher than they've ever done.

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kazu
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby kazu » Wed Jan 06, 2010 8:10 am

I'd just like to point out that PT-ing around 177 does not mean that you will get a 177 on your actual LSAT. Even if your PT scores have been consistant at that range (trust me I know).
Most people do worse on the actual day. If I were you I would be less concerned about securing that 180, and more concerned about preparing for everything and anything that could throw you off on that day. This includes sleeping patterns, making sure your brain can function first thing in the morning (if you're not a morning person), being strict with the timer, getting used to focusing even with noise / distractions, making sure that you're familiar with the problem formats in recent PT tests, figuring out how to deal with potential stress issues on the day of the test, etc. If you get all of this down, so that your actual test day performance can exactly mirror your PT performance, with a bit of luck you'll be able to get that 180.

yeff
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby yeff » Wed Jan 06, 2010 12:32 pm

Almost everyone does a bit worse than their PTs due to nerves.

You should probably be averaging 183-185 if you want to guarantee a 180 on test day.

:)

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:33 pm

kazu wrote:I'd just like to point out that PT-ing around 177 does not mean that you will get a 177 on your actual LSAT. Even if your PT scores have been consistant at that range (trust me I know).
Most people do worse on the actual day. If I were you I would be less concerned about securing that 180, and more concerned about preparing for everything and anything that could throw you off on that day. This includes sleeping patterns, making sure your brain can function first thing in the morning (if you're not a morning person), being strict with the timer, getting used to focusing even with noise / distractions, making sure that you're familiar with the problem formats in recent PT tests, figuring out how to deal with potential stress issues on the day of the test, etc. If you get all of this down, so that your actual test day performance can exactly mirror your PT performance, with a bit of luck you'll be able to get that 180.


Very true. In terms of sleeping patterns, a year of getting up at 6:30-7:00 for work every day should help. The advantage of the situation in terms of stress is that the LSAT is not a be-all-and-end-all test in this case. Life right now is going just fine, and never going to law school would be perfectly ok. A 180 would be lovely as it would open doors, but a bad score wouldn't really be particularly damaging to any long-standing goal.

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let/them/eat/cake
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby let/them/eat/cake » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:37 pm

julesm2200 wrote:hope you get the kind of game you like...

this question is seriously retarded. Youre talking like 1 question difference on some scales. So maybe bubble faster so you never run out of time? make sure you don't misread a LR question? get lucky?


these.

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 1:39 pm

let/them/eat/cake wrote:
julesm2200 wrote:hope you get the kind of game you like...

this question is seriously retarded. Youre talking like 1 question difference on some scales. So maybe bubble faster so you never run out of time? make sure you don't misread a LR question? get lucky?


these.


Yeah, but as long as there is any question where, given plenty of time, the answer is not 100% certain, there's room for improvement.

Woozy
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Woozy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:46 pm

If you have only a month left it is too late to make any huge changes, but here are some thoughts from someone who did exactly what you are trying to do:

1) Make damn sure you will go -0 on games no matter what they throw at you. If there are any types of games you are even slightly unsure of, practice more of them.

2) Try to eat somewhat healthily and get a moderate amount of exercise.

3) Work on mistake avoidance and anti-fatigue - take some PTs when you are tired and see if you are making dumb mistakes. At this level most of the questions you miss will probably be oversights that do not stem from a lack of understanding, but from missing a word or two. I took some PTs late in the evening after getting up at 5:30 AM and working a full day. If you can reduce your errors under these conditions you will be even better when fresh. Also, try to work fast enough that you have time to check for misbubbles, especially if you are prone to them during PTs.

4) Think efficiency and speed. Every second needs to be spent productively. Try to move as quickly as you can from question to question and from answer sheet to test booklet. It sounds simple and obvious, but it is not so easy in practice to identify every wasted second. A few examples of things I did:
i) Practice turning pages and beginning immediately. Attack the questions. Feel a sense of urgency during practice and the test. Practice setting games up as quickly as possible; often you can just skim the opening paragraph. You should be able to immediately identify what type of setup to use.
ii) Late in practice when you have internalized your sense of timing, stop looking at a watch. Every second spent looking at a watch is a second not spent on the LSAT. Also, looking at a watch is a distraction which will harm your focus.
iii) Use dull pencils - they fill an oval quicker. However, you may want a sharper one for LG diagrams (I did not.)

5) Make sure you don't drink too much the morning of the test and bring a snack for the break.

Good luck.

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:52 pm

Woozy wrote:If you have only a month left it is too late to make any huge changes, but here are some thoughts from someone who did exactly what you are trying to do:

1) Make damn sure you will go -0 on games no matter what they throw at you. If there are any types of games you are even slightly unsure of, practice more of them.

2) Try to eat somewhat healthily and get a moderate amount of exercise.

3) Work on mistake avoidance and anti-fatigue - take some PTs when you are tired and see if you are making dumb mistakes. At this level most of the questions you miss will probably be oversights that do not stem from a lack of understanding, but from missing a word or two. I took some PTs late in the evening after getting up at 5:30 AM and working a full day. If you can reduce your errors under these conditions you will be even better when fresh. Also, try to work fast enough that you have time to check for misbubbles, especially if you are prone to them during PTs.

4) Think efficiency and speed. Every second needs to be spent productively. Try to move as quickly as you can from question to question and from answer sheet to test booklet. It sounds simple and obvious, but it is not so easy in practice to identify every wasted second. A few examples of things I did:
i) Practice turning pages and beginning immediately. Attack the questions. Feel a sense of urgency during practice and the test. Practice setting games up as quickly as possible; often you can just skim the opening paragraph. You should be able to immediately identify what type of setup to use.
ii) Late in practice when you have internalized your sense of timing, stop looking at a watch. Every second spent looking at a watch is a second not spent on the LSAT. Also, looking at a watch is a distraction which will harm your focus.
iii) Use dull pencils - they fill an oval quicker. However, you may want a sharper one for LG diagrams (I did not.)

5) Make sure you don't drink too much the morning of the test and bring a snack for the break.

Good luck.


Congrats to you!!

Awesome advice--I especially like the tip about the dull pencils for bubbling. Never would have thought of that!

I agree about the games. Rereading LGB just to make sure that there's no random tip that I missed in case it comes up on the test.

I don't think that I've ever done PTs at a time when I could focus on them, so that's worth doing I guess. I usually take them while I'm on trains/buses. I need to try to sit down more and actually do them in a focused way--can only help. I think I've got the distraction part down (I always seem to be doing PTs while I'm trying to catch buses). The problem is that, whenever I actually try to sit down for 3 hours, I fall asleep. Alas, at least that shouldn't be a problem on the day itself.

Again, congrats and thanks!

Paix
Posts: 22
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:56 pm

Woozy wrote:If you have only a month left it is too late to make any huge changes, but here are some thoughts from someone who did exactly what you are trying to do:

1) Make damn sure you will go -0 on games no matter what they throw at you. If there are any types of games you are even slightly unsure of, practice more of them.

2) Try to eat somewhat healthily and get a moderate amount of exercise.

3) Work on mistake avoidance and anti-fatigue - take some PTs when you are tired and see if you are making dumb mistakes. At this level most of the questions you miss will probably be oversights that do not stem from a lack of understanding, but from missing a word or two. I took some PTs late in the evening after getting up at 5:30 AM and working a full day. If you can reduce your errors under these conditions you will be even better when fresh. Also, try to work fast enough that you have time to check for misbubbles, especially if you are prone to them during PTs.

4) Think efficiency and speed. Every second needs to be spent productively. Try to move as quickly as you can from question to question and from answer sheet to test booklet. It sounds simple and obvious, but it is not so easy in practice to identify every wasted second. A few examples of things I did:
i) Practice turning pages and beginning immediately. Attack the questions. Feel a sense of urgency during practice and the test. Practice setting games up as quickly as possible; often you can just skim the opening paragraph. You should be able to immediately identify what type of setup to use.
ii) Late in practice when you have internalized your sense of timing, stop looking at a watch. Every second spent looking at a watch is a second not spent on the LSAT. Also, looking at a watch is a distraction which will harm your focus.
iii) Use dull pencils - they fill an oval quicker. However, you may want a sharper one for LG diagrams (I did not.)

5) Make sure you don't drink too much the morning of the test and bring a snack for the break.

Good luck.


Oh, also, question... Did you use any marking strategy for RC?

Woozy
Posts: 159
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Woozy » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:11 pm

Paix wrote:Congrats to you!!

Awesome advice--I especially like the tip about the dull pencils for bubbling. Never would have thought of that!

I agree about the games. Rereading LGB just to make sure that there's no random tip that I missed in case it comes up on the test.

I don't think that I've ever done PTs at a time when I could focus on them, so that's worth doing I guess. I usually take them while I'm on trains/buses. I need to try to sit down more and actually do them in a focused way--can only help. I think I've got the distraction part down (I always seem to be doing PTs while I'm trying to catch buses). The problem is that, whenever I actually try to sit down for 3 hours, I fall asleep. Alas, at least that shouldn't be a problem on the day itself.

Again, congrats and thanks!


The main point of the dull pencil thing is not the few seconds it might shave off in a section but to illustrate the mindset you need to have that every fraction of every second is important, and that during your practice you should try to figure out the mechanics of moving fast, both mentally and physically.

It sounds like you need to set aside some time to do some serious dry runs. There are potential mental fatigue issues with 5 sections done back to back that you need to work out before the test. This is separate from tired/sleepy sort of fatigue, so you can't assume that being awake is enough. If you haven't been doing 3 sections back to back, 15 min break, then 2 more back to back you need to start now.

Paix
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Re: 177 --> 180 ?

Postby Paix » Wed Jan 06, 2010 3:13 pm

Woozy wrote:
Paix wrote:Congrats to you!!

Awesome advice--I especially like the tip about the dull pencils for bubbling. Never would have thought of that!

I agree about the games. Rereading LGB just to make sure that there's no random tip that I missed in case it comes up on the test.

I don't think that I've ever done PTs at a time when I could focus on them, so that's worth doing I guess. I usually take them while I'm on trains/buses. I need to try to sit down more and actually do them in a focused way--can only help. I think I've got the distraction part down (I always seem to be doing PTs while I'm trying to catch buses). The problem is that, whenever I actually try to sit down for 3 hours, I fall asleep. Alas, at least that shouldn't be a problem on the day itself.

Again, congrats and thanks!


Yep, at one of the recent Kaplan events, I did that and got a 178, but I should keep doing it... I just need to find the time between 2 jobs and life :-)

The main point of the dull pencil thing is not the few seconds it might shave off in a section but to illustrate the mindset you need to have that every fraction of every second is important, and that during your practice you should try to figure out the mechanics of moving fast, both mentally and physically.

It sounds like you need to set aside some time to do some serious dry runs. There are potential mental fatigue issues with 5 sections done back to back that you need to work out before the test. This is separate from tired/sleepy sort of fatigue, so you can't assume that being awake is enough. If you haven't been doing 3 sections back to back, 15 min break, then 2 more back to back you need to start now.




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