Powerscore ^ Kaplan Forum

[Geetar Man]

Does anyone think that reading the Powerscore bibles, preceding the Kaplan Prep Course if a bad idea?

Do they have any significant differences?

I would hate to learn the powerscore strategy and then be confused with Kaplan's. (The reason I am asking is because I am about done reading the LGB and dont know how to go about it when Kaplan's course starts in July.)

Although, the LGB is very helpful and I am missing less than when I first started. Im hoping to crank out PT's with 0 wrong on the LG before I actually take it in October. The LG section was the one I had the most problems with during my first PT.

Any advice??

[Nikrall]

My advice would be not to take the Kaplan course.

If you are going to take the Kaplan course anyhow, then you should study the bibles and then listen to what they say in Kaplan with an ear to what will help you. Remember that nothing anyone says is sacred, there are different ways of doing everything. But you can pick and choose different things from different methods and use what helps you the most.

[ecrew]

My advice would be not to take the Kaplan course.

If you are going to take the Kaplan course anyhow, then you should study the bibles and then listen to what they say in Kaplan with an ear to what will help you. Remember that nothing anyone says is sacred, there are different ways of doing everything. But you can pick and choose different things from different methods and use what helps you the most.

+1

[Geetar Man]

Well, reason for me taking Kaplan is that it was the only one that I originally knew about.
I applied for tuition assistance for Kaplan and got the maximum, 50 percent off of the course. Making the course only 650 dollars, from 1299. Is Kaplan still a terrible idea? Are there any courses that have relatively the same price??

[Nikrall]

Well, reason for me taking Kaplan is that it was the only one that I originally knew about.
I applied for tuition assistance for Kaplan and got the maximum, 50 percent off of the course. Making the course only 650 dollars, from 1299. Is Kaplan still a terrible idea? Are there any courses that have relatively the same price??

There are other cheap options out there...I don't know whether they are any good, but they exist. But you are most likely better off not taking any prep course than taking Kaplan. It is really that bad.

[KaplanLSATInstructor]

But you are most likely better off not taking any prep course than taking Kaplan. It is really that bad.

I don't get the unsupported vitriol behind this advice. I have been teaching for Kaplan for 6 years and was directly involved in the recent updates to our course. I can honestly say, knowing the people who put together our content and seeing results from former students, that we have a very strong program.

OP -- do yourself a favor. Think for yourself. There is nothing necessarily terrible about looking over the PS Bibles before taking our course. There may be some confusion of terminology (e.g., you won't see anything in Kaplan about "underfunded" or "partially defined grouping" games, and PowerScore won't use Kaplan's acronyms), but the basic approach (with one notable exception -- Loose/Pure Sequencing) is remarkably similar.

If you're going to invest in the Kaplan program, listen to what the instructor has to say. Ask questions and just make sure you get a thorough understanding of what the LSAT is looking for in the section. It's a fun, yet challenging section. And if you have any specific Kaplan questions, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

- Chris

[Sparkz1920]

How did you get assistance from the course in regards to finances?

Hell, im dirt poor too and will have to pay the installments on my CC each month and will be working overtime to do so. I wish i could take another course, but with my schedule i cannot nor do i think ill be disciplined enough to do it on my own with my schedule. If i dont score higher, well my money back please......

[Geetar Man]

But you are most likely better off not taking any prep course than taking Kaplan. It is really that bad.

I don't get the unsupported vitriol behind this advice. I have been teaching for Kaplan for 6 years and was directly involved in the recent updates to our course. I can honestly say, knowing the people who put together our content and seeing results from former students, that we have a very strong program.

OP -- do yourself a favor. Think for yourself. There is nothing necessarily terrible about looking over the PS Bibles before taking our course. There may be some confusion of terminology (e.g., you won't see anything in Kaplan about "underfunded" or "partially defined grouping" games, and PowerScore won't use Kaplan's acronyms), but the basic approach (with one notable exception -- Loose/Pure Sequencing) is remarkably similar.

If you're going to invest in the Kaplan program, listen to what the instructor has to say. Ask questions and just make sure you get a thorough understanding of what the LSAT is looking for in the section. It's a fun, yet challenging section. And if you have any specific Kaplan questions, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

- Chris

To be honest, I am a hard worker and will do every single homework assigned to me, ask questions, and make the good use of any course I take.

So Chris, what defense can you lay out for the claim that Kaplan is a terrible course? Im not worried about figuring out the terminology but I am worried about what Kaplan actually teaches. I dont want to only know what the right answer is, I want to know how to find that answer. Any response???

[Geetar Man]

How did you get assistance from the course in regards to finances?

Hell, im dirt poor too and will have to pay the installments on my CC each month and will be working overtime to do so. I wish i could take another course, but with my schedule i cannot nor do i think ill be disciplined enough to do it on my own with my schedule. If i dont score higher, well my money back please......

They have a tuition assistance application. You fill it out and do all of the requirements, i.e.... A PS, LOR, pay stubs, Student aid report etc..
Then, the manager of the Kaplan center for which you are applying for makes a decision. Fortunately, I was able to get 50 percent off of the course. Is it worth it, even at that price? I guess I will find out... I am still debating on how much I trust Kaplan.. I want to know why people actually claim that Kaplan is a terrible course...

[Sparkz1920]

Im scared as well, Im trying to enroll in a course that goes with my schedule. Ive read more good than bad. Also read that its good for those who scored low, as a I did. I would love a 170, but If i could get a 155-160, id be pleased.

[Nikrall]

But you are most likely better off not taking any prep course than taking Kaplan. It is really that bad.

I don't get the unsupported vitriol behind this advice. I have been teaching for Kaplan for 6 years and was directly involved in the recent updates to our course. I can honestly say, knowing the people who put together our content and seeing results from former students, that we have a very strong program.

OP -- do yourself a favor. Think for yourself. There is nothing necessarily terrible about looking over the PS Bibles before taking our course. There may be some confusion of terminology (e.g., you won't see anything in Kaplan about "underfunded" or "partially defined grouping" games, and PowerScore won't use Kaplan's acronyms), but the basic approach (with one notable exception -- Loose/Pure Sequencing) is remarkably similar.

If you're going to invest in the Kaplan program, listen to what the instructor has to say. Ask questions and just make sure you get a thorough understanding of what the LSAT is looking for in the section. It's a fun, yet challenging section. And if you have any specific Kaplan questions, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

- Chris

I can't speak to any recent updates Kaplan may have made. I don't follow what they do religiously. However there are a few reasons why I dislike Kaplan. A lot.

They allow little to no flexibility in their teaching. I don't know if this has changed, but when I was hired by them 5 years ago and went through the training sessions I was told to do exactly X and exactly Y and essentially re-phrase exactly what they were saying in this huge binder of information. A course necessarily has less flexibility than a tutor, but a good teacher can respond to students needs, concerns, and questions. And this leads to my second point.

Kaplan only requires teachers get in the 90th percentile to teach the test. This is a staggeringly low score to be teaching the test. 90th percentile? Really? Now I suppose in a sense its alright since all they want you to do is essentially read out of a book, but a good teacher should be able to answer questions as well.

Furthermore the methods that Kaplan uses are, frankly, horrible. They are not teaching people the skills necessary to understand the test, they are teaching people how to get questions right without knowing the skills necessary to understanding the test. And while this can work to a degree, it leaves a lot of people in the dark. When you get to the really complicated questions you have to actually understand what is going on, and not just look for key words.

And scope? Really? I have to beat it out of all my students (many who are Kaplan refugees) that just because something is not mentioned in the stimulus does not make it necessarily the wrong answer. A question that is about bach that is a "weaken except" question could have an answer choice that says "cheese is great" and it would be the right answer. Is it our of scope? Completely. Does it weaken the stimulus? Nope. Therefore its the right answer.

Oh. And don't get me started on the money back guarantee. That is a scam of the first order.

[Geetar Man]

But you are most likely better off not taking any prep course than taking Kaplan. It is really that bad.

I don't get the unsupported vitriol behind this advice. I have been teaching for Kaplan for 6 years and was directly involved in the recent updates to our course. I can honestly say, knowing the people who put together our content and seeing results from former students, that we have a very strong program.

OP -- do yourself a favor. Think for yourself. There is nothing necessarily terrible about looking over the PS Bibles before taking our course. There may be some confusion of terminology (e.g., you won't see anything in Kaplan about "underfunded" or "partially defined grouping" games, and PowerScore won't use Kaplan's acronyms), but the basic approach (with one notable exception -- Loose/Pure Sequencing) is remarkably similar.

If you're going to invest in the Kaplan program, listen to what the instructor has to say. Ask questions and just make sure you get a thorough understanding of what the LSAT is looking for in the section. It's a fun, yet challenging section. And if you have any specific Kaplan questions, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

- Chris

I can't speak to any recent updates Kaplan may have made. I don't follow what they do religiously. However there are a few reasons why I dislike Kaplan. A lot.

They allow little to no flexibility in their teaching. I don't know if this has changed, but when I was hired by them 5 years ago and went through the training sessions I was told to do exactly X and exactly Y and essentially re-phrase exactly what they were saying in this huge binder of information. A course necessarily has less flexibility than a tutor, but a good teacher can respond to students needs, concerns, and questions. And this leads to my second point.

Kaplan only requires teachers get in the 90th percentile to teach the test. This is a staggeringly low score to be teaching the test. 90th percentile? Really? Now I suppose in a sense its alright since all they want you to do is essentially read out of a book, but a good teacher should be able to answer questions as well.

Furthermore the methods that Kaplan uses are, frankly, horrible. They are not teaching people the skills necessary to understand the test, they are teaching people how to get questions right without knowing the skills necessary to understanding the test. And while this can work to a degree, it leaves a lot of people in the dark. When you get to the really complicated questions you have to actually understand what is going on, and not just look for key words.

And scope? Really? I have to beat it out of all my students (many who are Kaplan refugees) that just because something is not mentioned in the stimulus does not make it necessarily the wrong answer. A question that is about bach that is a "weaken except" question could have an answer choice that says "cheese is great" and it would be the right answer. Is it our of scope? Completely. Does it weaken the stimulus? Nope. Therefore its the right answer.

Oh. And don't get me started on the money back guarantee. That is a scam of the first order.

Good defense of your claim... I would look for a tutor, but I just dont see them AS reliable with scheduling as a course does.

The money back guarantee is not really my concern. My concern is spending my time in a valuable course that helps me to learn why a question's answer is or is not the case.
From what I have been reading, a test prep course is all merely subjective. On that same note, I have heard a lot of biased opinion. I, now, am very unsure of what to do.... fml

[Nikrall]

But you are most likely better off not taking any prep course than taking Kaplan. It is really that bad.

I don't get the unsupported vitriol behind this advice. I have been teaching for Kaplan for 6 years and was directly involved in the recent updates to our course. I can honestly say, knowing the people who put together our content and seeing results from former students, that we have a very strong program.

OP -- do yourself a favor. Think for yourself. There is nothing necessarily terrible about looking over the PS Bibles before taking our course. There may be some confusion of terminology (e.g., you won't see anything in Kaplan about "underfunded" or "partially defined grouping" games, and PowerScore won't use Kaplan's acronyms), but the basic approach (with one notable exception -- Loose/Pure Sequencing) is remarkably similar.

If you're going to invest in the Kaplan program, listen to what the instructor has to say. Ask questions and just make sure you get a thorough understanding of what the LSAT is looking for in the section. It's a fun, yet challenging section. And if you have any specific Kaplan questions, please don't hesitate to send me a PM.

- Chris

I can't speak to any recent updates Kaplan may have made. I don't follow what they do religiously. However there are a few reasons why I dislike Kaplan. A lot.

They allow little to no flexibility in their teaching. I don't know if this has changed, but when I was hired by them 5 years ago and went through the training sessions I was told to do exactly X and exactly Y and essentially re-phrase exactly what they were saying in this huge binder of information. A course necessarily has less flexibility than a tutor, but a good teacher can respond to students needs, concerns, and questions. And this leads to my second point.

Kaplan only requires teachers get in the 90th percentile to teach the test. This is a staggeringly low score to be teaching the test. 90th percentile? Really? Now I suppose in a sense its alright since all they want you to do is essentially read out of a book, but a good teacher should be able to answer questions as well.

Furthermore the methods that Kaplan uses are, frankly, horrible. They are not teaching people the skills necessary to understand the test, they are teaching people how to get questions right without knowing the skills necessary to understanding the test. And while this can work to a degree, it leaves a lot of people in the dark. When you get to the really complicated questions you have to actually understand what is going on, and not just look for key words.

And scope? Really? I have to beat it out of all my students (many who are Kaplan refugees) that just because something is not mentioned in the stimulus does not make it necessarily the wrong answer. A question that is about bach that is a "weaken except" question could have an answer choice that says "cheese is great" and it would be the right answer. Is it our of scope? Completely. Does it weaken the stimulus? Nope. Therefore its the right answer.

Oh. And don't get me started on the money back guarantee. That is a scam of the first order.

Good defense of your claim... I would look for a tutor, but I just dont see them AS reliable with scheduling as a course does.

The money back guarantee is not really my concern. My concern is spending my time in a valuable course that helps me to learn why a question's answer is or is not the case.
From what I have been reading, a test prep course is all merely subjective. On that same note, I have heard a lot of biased opinion. I, now, am very unsure of what to do.... fml

There are plenty of courses that don't suck. Testmasters/Powerscore/Blueprint/Atlas all have good reputations. I sort of don't like TM because Robin Singh (the owner) is insane, but they have good teachers.

Also what do you mean about a tutor not being as reliable with scheduling? And where do you live?

[Geetar Man]

There are plenty of courses that don't suck. Testmasters/Powerscore/Blueprint/Atlas all have good reputations. I sort of don't like TM because Robin Singh (the owner) is insane, but they have good teachers.

Also what do you mean about a tutor not being as reliable with scheduling? And where do you live?

I hear that...

I mean, I have hired a tutor who was terrible. He met with me three times and then just stopped caring.
I live in Arizona, NYC is a bit of a stretch.. Although, I would love to go to school there

[Sparkz1920]

Pray tell about this money back guarantee being a scam....Please. I might not be signing up if so.

I know one thing, i felt rushed when i spoke with them on the phone. Like i couldnt even finish my sentence

[Nikrall]

There are plenty of courses that don't suck. Testmasters/Powerscore/Blueprint/Atlas all have good reputations. I sort of don't like TM because Robin Singh (the owner) is insane, but they have good teachers.

Also what do you mean about a tutor not being as reliable with scheduling? And where do you live?

I hear that...

I mean, I have hired a tutor who was terrible. He met with me three times and then just stopped caring.
I live in Arizona, NYC is a bit of a stretch.. Although, I would love to go to school there

Take a plane!

No, don't. Its totally not worth it.

Dunno what to recommend you for Arizona. You could try another tutor or testmasters/powerscore. I don't think blueprint/atlas have courses out there.

[Sparkz1920]

Ok, so how r Testmasters and Powerscores online courses?

Thats my only option. My schedule wont fit anything else.

[modestsquirrel]

My advice would be not to take the Kaplan course.

If you are going to take the Kaplan course anyhow, then you should study the bibles and then listen to what they say in Kaplan with an ear to what will help you. Remember that nothing anyone says is sacred, there are different ways of doing everything. But you can pick and choose different things from different methods and use what helps you the most.

Agreed. Skip Kaplan. Just because someone happened to recieve X score doesn’t make them qualified to teach you the LSAT. Also, I think Powerscore books and methods are quality. Kaplan’s methods for LG’s were, in my opinion, completely worthless. I think you can benefit from just taking PT’s and studying the Bibles. I personally saw a score increase of 10+ points when I did this. It does require far more discipline than Kaplan, but it pays dividends, and actually produces results.

[Nikrall]

Pray tell about this money back guarantee being a scam....Please. I might not be signing up if so.

I know one thing, i felt rushed when i spoke with them on the phone. Like i couldnt even finish my sentence

So you have to take a diagnostic at the beginning. This counts as your base score that they compare it against. Lets assume that you've never seen the test before (since they say you shouldn't study beforehand, or look at any testing materials).

Now. After never having seen the test before, you go through all the questions that Kaplan wants you to do and take many, many diagnostics. You will improve. You will improve even if they told you shit that was 100% false. You will improve solely because by doing something over and over and over again, you begin to understand it better. Will you improve via practice to where you want to be? Unlikely. Will you improve to where you did better before you ever saw the test? Pretty much guaranteed.

That and you have to do worse on an actual LSAT than you did on the diagnostic. Most people who want to go to law school and are willing to shell out $1200 for a course aren't going to take the LSAT just because they want to get their money back, if they know they are doing shitty.

Its essentially a guarantee that makes you think you are getting security when really you aren't getting anything at all.

[Nikrall]

My advice would be not to take the Kaplan course.

If you are going to take the Kaplan course anyhow, then you should study the bibles and then listen to what they say in Kaplan with an ear to what will help you. Remember that nothing anyone says is sacred, there are different ways of doing everything. But you can pick and choose different things from different methods and use what helps you the most.

Agreed. Skip Kaplan. Just because someone happened to recieve X score doesn’t make them qualified to teach you the LSAT. Also, I think Powerscore books and methods are quality. Kaplan’s methods for LG’s were, in my opinion, completely worthless. I think you can benefit from just taking PT’s and studying the Bibles. I personally saw a score increase of 10+ points when I did this. It does require far more discipline than Kaplan, but it pays dividends, and actually produces results.

Sufficient and necessary my friend.

Just because you got in the 170's isn't sufficient to teach the test well. But (I would claim) it is necessary.

And the 90th percentile can be as low as a 163. You really want someone who got a 163 to be teaching you?

[Nikrall]

Ok, so how r Testmasters and Powerscores online courses?

Thats my only option. My schedule wont fit anything else.

Eh well you can try a tutor. I don't know how the online courses are, but in general their courses are good. I think blueprint has an online course I've heard good things about.

[Sparkz1920]

Pray tell about this money back guarantee being a scam....Please. I might not be signing up if so.

I know one thing, i felt rushed when i spoke with them on the phone. Like i couldnt even finish my sentence

So you have to take a diagnostic at the beginning. This counts as your base score that they compare it against. Lets assume that you've never seen the test before (since they say you shouldn't study beforehand, or look at any testing materials).

Now. After never having seen the test before, you go through all the questions that Kaplan wants you to do and take many, many diagnostics. You will improve. You will improve even if they told you shit that was 100% false. You will improve solely because by doing something over and over and over again, you begin to understand it better. Will you improve via practice to where you want to be? Unlikely. Will you improve to where you did better before you ever saw the test? Pretty much guaranteed.

That and you have to do worse on an actual LSAT than you did on the diagnostic. Most people who want to go to law school and are willing to shell out $1200 for a course aren't going to take the LSAT just because they want to get their money back, if they know they are doing shitty.

Its essentially a guarantee that makes you think you are getting security when really you aren't getting anything at all.

Ok, Thank You

I figured that was the case. When i saw that the first thing is te diagnostic, i figured that was the measuring stick that would be used and of course, if anyone does any type of studying with Kaplan and The bibles and such, they will score higher, just might be by 2 points. I was weary of that when i gave it some thought the other day.

[Nikrall]

Pray tell about this money back guarantee being a scam....Please. I might not be signing up if so.

I know one thing, i felt rushed when i spoke with them on the phone. Like i couldnt even finish my sentence

So you have to take a diagnostic at the beginning. This counts as your base score that they compare it against. Lets assume that you've never seen the test before (since they say you shouldn't study beforehand, or look at any testing materials).

Now. After never having seen the test before, you go through all the questions that Kaplan wants you to do and take many, many diagnostics. You will improve. You will improve even if they told you shit that was 100% false. You will improve solely because by doing something over and over and over again, you begin to understand it better. Will you improve via practice to where you want to be? Unlikely. Will you improve to where you did better before you ever saw the test? Pretty much guaranteed.

That and you have to do worse on an actual LSAT than you did on the diagnostic. Most people who want to go to law school and are willing to shell out $1200 for a course aren't going to take the LSAT just because they want to get their money back, if they know they are doing shitty.

Its essentially a guarantee that makes you think you are getting security when really you aren't getting anything at all.

Ok, Thank You

I figured that was the case. When i saw that the first thing is te diagnostic, i figured that was the measuring stick that would be used and of course, if anyone does any type of studying with Kaplan and The bibles and such, they will score higher, just might be by 2 points. I was weary of that when i gave it some thought the other day.

It's almost funny in a way...its using peoples failures to think critically to convince them to take a course that is supposed to teach them to think critically...

[Veritaffle]

POWERSCORE

[Lolschool]

Pray tell about this money back guarantee being a scam....Please. I might not be signing up if so.

I know one thing, i felt rushed when i spoke with them on the phone. Like i couldnt even finish my sentence

So you have to take a diagnostic at the beginning. This counts as your base score that they compare it against. Lets assume that you've never seen the test before (since they say you shouldn't study beforehand, or look at any testing materials).

Now. After never having seen the test before, you go through all the questions that Kaplan wants you to do and take many, many diagnostics. You will improve. You will improve even if they told you shit that was 100% false. You will improve solely because by doing something over and over and over again, you begin to understand it better. Will you improve via practice to where you want to be? Unlikely. Will you improve to where you did better before you ever saw the test? Pretty much guaranteed.

That and you have to do worse on an actual LSAT than you did on the diagnostic. Most people who want to go to law school and are willing to shell out $1200 for a course aren't going to take the LSAT just because they want to get their money back, if they know they are doing shitty.

Its essentially a guarantee that makes you think you are getting security when really you aren't getting anything at all.

Ok, Thank You

I figured that was the case. When i saw that the first thing is te diagnostic, i figured that was the measuring stick that would be used and of course, if anyone does any type of studying with Kaplan and The bibles and such, they will score higher, just might be by 2 points. I was weary of that when i gave it some thought the other day.

It's almost funny in a way...its using peoples failures to think critically to convince them to take a course that is supposed to teach them to think critically...

true. But if you're really interested in becoming a lawyer, you should be skeptical of any similar claims of guarantees. I'd love to see what percentage of people have actually exercised the Kaplan money back guarantee.