What E&E books can I study before 1L?

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ender311
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What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby ender311 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:15 am

There's a ton of E&E books in the series. I was told these are ultimately very useful and that I might as well buy them now and read through them to get an understand of the language/vocab. Can you recommend any specific subjects that would likely help me in 1L?

thankya! :D

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hkm6315
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby hkm6315 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:21 am

This is somewhat hashed out in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=35834

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ender311
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby ender311 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 2:46 am

Actually I saw that link first, and then I was curious. They constantly refer to the "E&E's" so i googled it and its a whole series. But there's no way i'll need all of them for 1L. So i'm wondering which are the most foundational.

Alexandria
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Alexandria » Wed Jul 02, 2008 3:16 am

What classes do you have as a 1L? It varies a little from school to school.

The ones written by Glannon (Civ Pro, Torts) seem to be the best-received.

snotrocket
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby snotrocket » Wed Jul 02, 2008 11:57 am

It varies some, but the usual 1L subjects are:

- Civil Procedure
- Contracts
- Property
- Torts
- Criminal Law
- Constitutional Law

Some schools omit Con. Law from the first year, and some weirdly require Criminal Procedure instead of Criminal Law. As Alexandria mentioned, the E&E titles on Civ. Pro. and Torts seems to get the most uniform good reviews. The others vary.

Some like the Property E&E by Burke, but I found it incoherent and unreadable. I would suggest Sprankling's Understanding Property Law instead for that subject. Everyone raves about Chirelstein's short primer for Contracts, and Chemerinsky's treatise for Con. Law. Most people seem to like Dressler's Understanding Criminal Law for that subject. Working out the essay questions while reading ahead over the summer is insane anyway. So you won't miss out on anything by passing on the E&Es for these subjects.

Chemerinsky's book is huge, so you should probably check and see what topics are included in your school's 1L Intro to Con. Law. Odds are it's only federalism and a little bit of equal protection or something. Most schools save the individual rights stuff for another course, and that's about half of what Chemerinsky covers.

So, if you want to look at one thing from each subject:

- Civil Procedure: E&E (Glannon)
- Contracts: Chirelstein (The Boat Book)
- Property: Understanding Property Law (Sprankling)
- Torts: E&E (Glannon)
- Criminal Law Understanding Criminal Law (Dressler)
- Constitutional Law: Chemerinsky

Try Chirelstein first, because that's the shortest and most readable. If you get through it and want more, then look at the other ones in subjects that interest you. Torts or Criminal Law are probably the next most readable and interesting for most people. Property is the toughest slog, because it's so arcane and includes about a dozen different areas of the law. Only attack that one if you've gotten through some simpler topics and still want more.

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ender311
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby ender311 » Wed Jul 02, 2008 10:02 pm

snotrocket wrote:It varies some, but the usual 1L subjects are:

- Civil Procedure
- Contracts
- Property
- Torts
- Criminal Law
- Constitutional Law

Some schools omit Con. Law from the first year, and some weirdly require Criminal Procedure instead of Criminal Law. As Alexandria mentioned, the E&E titles on Civ. Pro. and Torts seems to get the most uniform good reviews. The others vary.

Some like the Property E&E by Burke, but I found it incoherent and unreadable. I would suggest Sprankling's Understanding Property Law instead for that subject. Everyone raves about Chirelstein's short primer for Contracts, and Chemerinsky's treatise for Con. Law. Most people seem to like Dressler's Understanding Criminal Law for that subject. Working out the essay questions while reading ahead over the summer is insane anyway. So you won't miss out on anything by passing on the E&Es for these subjects.

Chemerinsky's book is huge, so you should probably check and see what topics are included in your school's 1L Intro to Con. Law. Odds are it's only federalism and a little bit of equal protection or something. Most schools save the individual rights stuff for another course, and that's about half of what Chemerinsky covers.

So, if you want to look at one thing from each subject:

- Civil Procedure: E&E (Glannon)
- Contracts: Chirelstein (The Boat Book)
- Property: Understanding Property Law (Sprankling)
- Torts: E&E (Glannon)
- Criminal Law Understanding Criminal Law (Dressler)
- Constitutional Law: Chemerinsky

Try Chirelstein first, because that's the shortest and most readable. If you get through it and want more, then look at the other ones in subjects that interest you. Torts or Criminal Law are probably the next most readable and interesting for most people. Property is the toughest slog, because it's so arcane and includes about a dozen different areas of the law. Only attack that one if you've gotten through some simpler topics and still want more.


You are awesome. I would also like to thank the internet for letting all of this be possible.

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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby ongsar » Sun Feb 28, 2010 4:45 am

tag

Sky'stheLimit
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Sky'stheLimit » Sun Feb 28, 2010 10:21 am

Im interested too!

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Cavalier
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Cavalier » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:25 am

If you're doing this because you find the subject matter interesting and enjoy reading about the law, go ahead. But if you think you're going to have an advantage in your classes, you are mistaken. Most of the concepts in law school are not terribly difficult to understand, so starting in February instead of August is completely unnecessary. The last thing you want to do is burn out before school even starts. While I know all the 0Ls ignore this advice (I certainly did last year), I would just advise you to quit reading the moment it is no longer interesting. If you force yourself to read, you will just enter school already hating the law, and be at a disadvantage.

Sky'stheLimit
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Sky'stheLimit » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:31 am

My thoughts are that simply gaining exposure to the material would be beneficial. Im definitely not considering reading until my eyes bleed this summer before LS. Maybe 2 hours a day.


Is it the same for you Onsgar??

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JazzOne
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby JazzOne » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:37 am

Cavalier wrote:If you're doing this because you find the subject matter interesting and enjoy reading about the law, go ahead. But if you think you're going to have an advantage in your classes, you are mistaken. Most of the concepts in law school are not terribly difficult to understand, so starting in February instead of August is completely unnecessary. The last thing you want to do is burn out before school even starts. While I know all the 0Ls ignore this advice (I certainly did last year), I would just advise you to quit reading the moment it is no longer interesting. If you force yourself to read, you will just enter school already hating the law, and be at a disadvantage.

+1

I was strongly criticized for prepping as a 0L, but I honestly found it to be interesting. If it becomes tedious, forget about it until the fall.

narkizopoint
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby narkizopoint » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:43 am

If you truly mean "study" then I think the answer is nothing. At least not effectively, not until you know what your prof. wants from you on your exam and you know what to look for.

If you mean "read" then I have found the Glannon authored ones enjoyable and have heard the Chemer???sky one on property is also a good read.

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TheBigMediocre
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby TheBigMediocre » Sun Feb 28, 2010 11:58 am

tag

Anonymous Loser
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Anonymous Loser » Sun Feb 28, 2010 12:04 pm

If you guys are going to "tag" something, tag the 10+ page thread about this topic that's pinned at the top of the Forum for Law Students. This issue comes up on a more or less daily basis; I don't understand why the mods don't instantly lock every thread debating about whether or not Chemerinsky would be helpful for Con Law.

There is nothing new to say about supplements that hasn't already been said before somewhere else on this forum.

sfdreaming09
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby sfdreaming09 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:10 pm

tag

Kobe_Teeth
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Kobe_Teeth » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:11 pm

snotrocket wrote:It varies some, but the usual 1L subjects are:

- Civil Procedure
- Contracts
- Property
- Torts
- Criminal Law
- Constitutional Law

Some schools omit Con. Law from the first year, and some weirdly require Criminal Procedure instead of Criminal Law. As Alexandria mentioned, the E&E titles on Civ. Pro. and Torts seems to get the most uniform good reviews. The others vary.

Some like the Property E&E by Burke, but I found it incoherent and unreadable. I would suggest Sprankling's Understanding Property Law instead for that subject. Everyone raves about Chirelstein's short primer for Contracts, and Chemerinsky's treatise for Con. Law. Most people seem to like Dressler's Understanding Criminal Law for that subject. Working out the essay questions while reading ahead over the summer is insane anyway. So you won't miss out on anything by passing on the E&Es for these subjects.

Chemerinsky's book is huge, so you should probably check and see what topics are included in your school's 1L Intro to Con. Law. Odds are it's only federalism and a little bit of equal protection or something. Most schools save the individual rights stuff for another course, and that's about half of what Chemerinsky covers.

So, if you want to look at one thing from each subject:

- Civil Procedure: E&E (Glannon)
- Contracts: Chirelstein (The Boat Book)
- Property: Understanding Property Law (Sprankling)
- Torts: E&E (Glannon)
- Criminal Law Understanding Criminal Law (Dressler)
- Constitutional Law: Chemerinsky

Try Chirelstein first, because that's the shortest and most readable. If you get through it and want more, then look at the other ones in subjects that interest you. Torts or Criminal Law are probably the next most readable and interesting for most people. Property is the toughest slog, because it's so arcane and includes about a dozen different areas of the law. Only attack that one if you've gotten through some simpler topics and still want more.


good post.

Renzo
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:16 pm

Reading the E&E's, or any other study aid as a 0L is a terrible, terrible wast of time.


Having said that, since you're not going to believe me and you're going to do it anyway, read the Torts E&E. It's readable, and if you actually work through the examples & explanations, it's good practice for applying the law to fact patterns.

270910
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby 270910 » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:17 pm

Kobe_Teeth wrote:
snotrocket wrote:It varies some, but the usual 1L subjects are:

- Civil Procedure
- Contracts
- Property
- Torts
- Criminal Law
- Constitutional Law

Some schools omit Con. Law from the first year, and some weirdly require Criminal Procedure instead of Criminal Law. As Alexandria mentioned, the E&E titles on Civ. Pro. and Torts seems to get the most uniform good reviews. The others vary.

Some like the Property E&E by Burke, but I found it incoherent and unreadable. I would suggest Sprankling's Understanding Property Law instead for that subject. Everyone raves about Chirelstein's short primer for Contracts, and Chemerinsky's treatise for Con. Law. Most people seem to like Dressler's Understanding Criminal Law for that subject. Working out the essay questions while reading ahead over the summer is insane anyway. So you won't miss out on anything by passing on the E&Es for these subjects.

Chemerinsky's book is huge, so you should probably check and see what topics are included in your school's 1L Intro to Con. Law. Odds are it's only federalism and a little bit of equal protection or something. Most schools save the individual rights stuff for another course, and that's about half of what Chemerinsky covers.

So, if you want to look at one thing from each subject:

- Civil Procedure: E&E (Glannon)
- Contracts: Chirelstein (The Boat Book)
- Property: Understanding Property Law (Sprankling)
- Torts: E&E (Glannon)
- Criminal Law Understanding Criminal Law (Dressler)
- Constitutional Law: Chemerinsky

Try Chirelstein first, because that's the shortest and most readable. If you get through it and want more, then look at the other ones in subjects that interest you. Torts or Criminal Law are probably the next most readable and interesting for most people. Property is the toughest slog, because it's so arcane and includes about a dozen different areas of the law. Only attack that one if you've gotten through some simpler topics and still want more.


good post.


Terrible post. Gives the wrong impression. If you reeeaallllyyy can't want until law school, feel free to skim ONE of those that you will have first semester. But as a 0L, you won't understand what you're supposed to be getting out of them, you won't give yourself a leg up, you'll get tired of the material faster, you will learn the wrong stuff, and if you let anyone know you did it you will be justifiably stigmatized.

0L prep = bad times. It's just not a silver bullet, and there's no reason to grind yourself to pieces with it.

If you happen to start skimming one and find it interesting, it PROBABLY won't hurt to keep going, but that list isn't fabulous because 99.9% of 0Ls would be much better off not trying to do substantive prep prior to getting to law school.

Renzo
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Renzo » Sun Feb 28, 2010 5:24 pm

disco_barred wrote:
Kobe_Teeth wrote:
snotrocket wrote:(big long post)


good post.


Terrible post. Gives the wrong impression. If you reeeaallllyyy can't want until law school, feel free to skim ONE of those that you will have first semester. But as a 0L, you won't understand what you're supposed to be getting out of them, you won't give yourself a leg up, you'll get tired of the material faster, you will learn the wrong stuff, and if you let anyone know you did it you will be justifiably stigmatized.

0L prep = bad times. It's just not a silver bullet, and there's no reason to grind yourself to pieces with it.

If you happen to start skimming one and find it interesting, it PROBABLY won't hurt to keep going, but that list isn't fabulous because 99.9% of 0Ls would be much better off not trying to do substantive prep prior to getting to law school.

Agreed. That would be a great list for a 1L asking for supplement advice, but its an awful post directed at a 0L. Disco_barred's advice is spot-on.

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risktaker
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby risktaker » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:16 am

tag

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megaTTTron
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby megaTTTron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:28 am

IN before this calm, respectable, balanced thread is (as so many before it) trolled and locked.

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mths
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby mths » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:46 am

Honestly, it's very silly to prep with E&Es when you don't know what your prof will be going through in class. I wouldn't recommend anything but if you're really set on it then see if your profs wrote any hornbooks. That way at least you'll be going over stuff you'll encounter in class.

dakatz
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby dakatz » Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:57 am

OP, I was in your position. I wanted to find a way to get ahead and do some prep before 1L. So I picked up some E&E books to do some reading and get whatever advantage I could. Quite possibly the worst idea I had in retrospect for a number of reasons. Allow me to elaborate.

Your professors will have very specific ways to going over things, so you will likely have to relearn nearly all the things you see in the E&E. For example, my K's professor had a completely different approach than the E&E used, making the hours and hours of reading it utterly useless. The larger problem is that SO much of the book's material will not be covered in class. Thus, you will spend time learning stuff that will be of no use to you. This doesn't sound like it is that bad, but it has a terrible side effect: You will be unable to recall with sufficient clarify the parts that ARE important, because you didn't know what was important at the time.

There are advantages you can get before law school, but this is not one of them. Think of it as one big cost/benefit. You want to get out just as much if not more than what you put in. Reading E&E's involves a lot of cost and zero benefit because, come exam time, the playing field is leveled out. Sure, you might sound smart on the first day of class, but that has no effect on your grade. Spend your time revising your resume and cover letters. Improve your typing skills. Familiarize yourself with law school exam formats. Do some networking by getting into touch with alumni in your local area. They would be happy to chat with you about their experiences. All of these activities may very well provide you with tangible benefit in the future. Don't waste your time doing something that yields no benefit. Remember that most "gunners" and "go-getters" will ignore advice such as mine. They will assume that reading such supplements will get them ahead. Be the one who distinguishes yourself from the mindless masses and actually comes in with an advantage by doing the other things mentioned above.

Sorry for the length of this post, but I feel like this is an important message to get across. Good luck and happy new year to all.

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tooswolle
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby tooswolle » Sun Dec 26, 2010 2:02 am

Tag

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Veyron
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Re: What E&E books can I study before 1L?

Postby Veyron » Sun Dec 26, 2010 4:10 am

Glannon Civ-Pro is the only one I'd bother with. Read it cover to cover.




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