job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

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boobird
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job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby boobird » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:26 pm

most t14 grads should have a keen outlook, but what happens to t20-80 graduates with subpar (<3.2) law school gpas?

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos053.htm#outlook

Job prospects. Competition for job openings should continue to be keen because of the large number of students graduating from law school each year. Graduates with superior academic records from highly regarded law schools will have the best job opportunities. Perhaps as a result of competition for attorney positions, lawyers are increasingly finding work in less traditional areas for which legal training is an asset, but not normally a requirement—for example, administrative, managerial, and business positions in banks, insurance firms, real estate companies, government agencies, and other organizations. Employment opportunities are expected to continue to arise in these organizations at a growing rate.

As in the past, some graduates may have to accept positions outside of their field of interest or for which they feel overqualified. Some recent law school graduates who have been unable to find permanent positions are turning to the growing number of temporary staffing firms that place attorneys in short-term jobs. This service allows companies to hire lawyers on an “as-needed” basis and permits beginning lawyers to develop practical skills.

Because of the keen competition for jobs, a law graduate’s geographic mobility and work experience assume greater importance. The willingness to relocate may be an advantage in getting a job, but to be licensed in another State, a lawyer may have to take an additional State bar examination. In addition, employers increasingly seek graduates who have advanced law degrees and experience in a specialty, such as tax, patent, or admiralty law.

Job opportunities often are adversely affected by cyclical swings in the economy. During recessions, demand declines for some discretionary legal services, such as planning estates, drafting wills, and handling real estate transactions. Also, corporations are less likely to litigate cases when declining sales and profits restrict their budgets. Some corporations and law firms will not hire new attorneys until business improves, and these establishments may even cut staff to contain costs. Several factors, however, mitigate the overall impact of recessions on lawyers; during recessions, for example, individuals and corporations face other legal problems, such as bankruptcies, foreclosures, and divorces requiring legal action.

For lawyers who wish to work independently, establishing a new practice will probably be easiest in small towns and expanding suburban areas. In such communities, competition from larger, established law firms is likely to be less than in big cities, and new lawyers may find it easier to establish a reputation among potential clients.

tls5
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby tls5 » Wed Jun 25, 2008 9:41 pm

This is old news. It should come as a surprise to noone who has done the research that many people attending schools outside the T14 (plus a couple others) will have to fight for jobs.

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Colt45
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby Colt45 » Tue Jul 01, 2008 8:23 pm

Isn't this common sense? Employers assume you'll have an easier time getting a 4.0 at say...Santa Clara University than at HYS. Therefore, they expect more from you. Competition sucks, but its what makes the world go 'round.

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playhero
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby playhero » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:26 pm

Colt45 wrote:Isn't this common sense? Employers assume you'll have an easier time getting a 4.0 at say...Santa Clara University than at HYS. Therefore, they expect more from you. Competition sucks, but its what makes the world go 'round.

This really isn't true. :3

philo-sophia
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby philo-sophia » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:42 pm

This really isn't true. :3


riiiggghhhtttt...and it takes no more talent to win a championship in the NBA than it does in your local rec league. Getting good grades requires beating your fellow competitors (classmates). At HYS you're competing with those who've had the drive and talent to make it to the bigtime. Not the case at Santa Clara.

I'm all for eschewing elitism for its own sake, but let's not cast aside all reason in the name of some illogical quest to make claims like "people at HYS aren't generally higher caliber students than those at T2's"

chiller
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby chiller » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:50 pm

I think employers like Harvard/Yale/Stanford/etc. students because they attend those schools. Not too difficult to market YLS.

I'm not sure people in Chicago/NY/etc. are familiar with Santa Clara. Therefore, if a student comes out of Santa Clara, then the credentials (latin honors, LR) may serve as marketing devices.

philo-sophia
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby philo-sophia » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:55 pm

wow...so it looks like the takeaway from this thread is that top law schools typically offer better and more geographically diverse employment prospects.

chiller
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby chiller » Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:58 pm

sarcasm noted.

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Grad_Student
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby Grad_Student » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:12 am

Elitism is whack.

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playhero
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby playhero » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:25 am

philo-sophia wrote:
This really isn't true. :3


riiiggghhhtttt...and it takes no more talent to win a championship in the NBA than it does in your local rec league. Getting good grades requires beating your fellow competitors (classmates). At HYS you're competing with those who've had the drive and talent to make it to the bigtime. Not the case at Santa Clara.

I'm all for eschewing elitism for its own sake, but let's not cast aside all reason in the name of some illogical quest to make claims like "people at HYS aren't generally higher caliber students than those at T2's"

Sure they are higher caliber, but they are likely exert far less effort to compete with one another. There is no way for anyone to be sure so you shouldn't go around acting like you conclusion is true.

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kevsocko
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby kevsocko » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:29 am

I. AM. SURE.

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playhero
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby playhero » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:32 am

kevsocko wrote:I. AM. SURE.

hrm.. STFU GTFO

Image

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TTT-LS
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby TTT-LS » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:38 am

-
Last edited by TTT-LS on Sun Jun 20, 2010 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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spanktheduck
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby spanktheduck » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:45 am

That chart makes me so glad I chose Cornell. :(

*Further evidence that upstate NY sucks, Syracuse and Albany are also near the top. Urg
Last edited by spanktheduck on Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:47 am, edited 1 time in total.

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ari20dal7
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Re: job prospects for most lawyers - not so keen?

Postby ari20dal7 » Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:46 am

I guess I have to be the elitist jerk. The average Yale student's three and a half hours are, most assuredly, more effective than the average TTT student's five hours.

If we're interested in anecdotes......I know lots of people at a mid T2 state school (if you've followed my posting history, you know which one). They're smart and everything, but one person I know who was in the top quarter was decidedly, well, not a top quarter kind of guy. Other folks I know who are smart, but not really elite were routinely kicking ass.

On the other hand, the students I met at UCLA were unbelievable, and I'm quite certain that most of them are going to be smarter than me. I have no doubt that the kids I knew from mid-T2 wouldn't keep their class rank at UCLA. They might not have been bottom 10% or something, but they would not stand out in this crowd, and if they did, it wouldn't be in a good way.

Yeah, there are some really ridiculously smart people at T2/TTT/TTTT institutions, but the average student there could work a thousand hours and not get what a Harvard student would get from ten.




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