What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school? Forum

(Please Ask Questions and Answer Questions)
Ryduce

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:49 pm

What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Ryduce » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:14 pm

I'm sorry for asking such a seemingly stupid question,but after looking at the rankings of particular schools I don't really understand what the criteria is for taxonimizing a school's tier.

For example:I always thought of Gonzaga as a very respectable law school.It is a tier 3.Meanwhile Stetson,which I've never heard of,is a tier 1.

User avatar
MiniMao

New
Posts: 6
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:20 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by MiniMao » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:26 pm

This isn't an exhaustive list, but a lot of what goes into ranking schools is: GPA of the students, LSAT score of the students, reputation of the school according to academics and employers.

So a Tier 1 school, on average, will have smarter students and better job prospects after graduation than a Tier 3 school.

However, once you are no longer looking at the top fourteen or so schools, it becomes less important exactly what a school's ranking is, and more important how people see it in that region. So it might often be better to go to a Tier 3 school that's the best in the state than a Tier 2 school that's behind half a dozen other schools in the area.

philo-sophia

Bronze
Posts: 108
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2007 12:45 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by philo-sophia » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:42 pm

What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?
Tier 2

Ryduce

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:49 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Ryduce » Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:45 pm

lol

Touche.

woodford

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2007 3:47 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by woodford » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:10 pm

MiniMao wrote:
So a Tier 1 school, on average, will have smarter students and better job prospects after graduation than a Tier 3 school.
i don't know about "smarter." certainly, on average, they have students with higher LSAT's and GPA's, but i'm not sure this means that they are "smarter"
Last edited by woodford on Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
Grad_Student

Bronze
Posts: 351
Joined: Sat Jun 09, 2007 3:20 am

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Grad_Student » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:13 pm

Just means they probably do better on standardized tests than others but I think MiniMao hit the nail on the head with outside the t14. I'd probably say outside the T25, most law schools are going to have regional reps; some better than others.

Gators08

New
Posts: 55
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 4:11 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Gators08 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:22 pm

Stetson is thought of as a good school (it has one of the best trial advocacy programs in the country) where as I only know of Gonzaga as being a school with a basketball team. Probably matters where you are as to what you've heard of.

But yeah, Stetson is tier 1 because it has one very excellent program.

User avatar
bmphelps

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:43 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by bmphelps » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:37 pm

I have been lurking/posting on this forum for a couple of days and as I've read other posts, new questions keep coming up. I am new to the law school process, but have signed up for the LSAT in June. Here are the questions:

1. I understand tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 schools, but I've also heard top 10s, 20s, 30s, etc. What is the difference between the two? For instance, Chapman Law School is a tier 3 school, but I've also heard they are not considered a "good" choice? Where would I find a ranking of law schools?

2. I STILL don't fully understand the whole LSAT curve thing...

3. If I am offered scholarships, would I only be offered from those schools to which I apply? Or assuming my scores/GPA is good enough, would I receive letters in the mail from schools offering me scholarships for which I did not even apply? And how would they even know my scores?

4. What does waitlisted mean?

I think that's it for now - thanks!

User avatar
standre2008

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:13 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by standre2008 » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:40 pm

bmphelps wrote:I have been lurking/posting on this forum for a couple of days and as I've read other posts, new questions keep coming up. I am new to the law school process, but have signed up for the LSAT in June. Here are the questions:

1. I understand tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 schools, but I've also heard top 10s, 20s, 30s, etc. What is the difference between the two? For instance, Chapman Law School is a tier 3 school, but I've also heard they are not considered a "good" choice? Where would I find a ranking of law schools?

2. I STILL don't fully understand the whole LSAT curve thing...

3. If I am offered scholarships, would I only be offered from those schools to which I apply? Or assuming my scores/GPA is good enough, would I receive letters in the mail from schools offering me scholarships for which I did not even apply? And how would they even know my scores?

4. What does waitlisted mean?

I think that's it for now - thanks!




http://www.top-law-schools.com/rankings.html
Thats where you'll find law school rankings...

Can't really help you with the rest of your questions...

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


User avatar
Mattalones

Silver
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:18 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Mattalones » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:45 pm

bmphelps wrote:I have been lurking/posting on this forum for a couple of days and as I've read other posts, new questions keep coming up. I am new to the law school process, but have signed up for the LSAT in June. Here are the questions:

1. I understand tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 schools, but I've also heard top 10s, 20s, 30s, etc. What is the difference between the two? For instance, Chapman Law School is a tier 3 school, but I've also heard they are not considered a "good" choice? Where would I find a ranking of law schools?

2. I STILL don't fully understand the whole LSAT curve thing...

3. If I am offered scholarships, would I only be offered from those schools to which I apply? Or assuming my scores/GPA is good enough, would I receive letters in the mail from schools offering me scholarships for which I did not even apply? And how would they even know my scores?

4. What does waitlisted mean?

I think that's it for now - thanks!
2) The curve is on LSDAS and you will become familiar with it as you take practice test, so don't worry about it because that information will present itself.

3) If you get a scholarship offer from a school to which you did not apply, assume it is shady. You have to apply to schools in order to hear anything about legit scholarships.

4) Waitlist means that they are going to let you in only if enough people turn down their acceptances and make rom for you.

User avatar
bmphelps

New
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Apr 11, 2008 10:43 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by bmphelps » Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:54 pm

Thanks so much for all your help! I posted these same questions on the Law School Admission forum and some jackass actually said I gave him a great laugh because he thought HE was a newbie, but didn't deign to answer any of the questions.

I've also been told, "I don't want to sound like a jerk but a 3.5 isn't considered a high GPA - but I guess it depends on what law school you choose" in response to my question about LSAT score tied to GPA (my UG happens to be 3.5).

I've been on this site exactly three days and am trying actually to avoid asking questions so that I am not ridiculed into feeling stupid for asking questions (which, I thought, was the whole purpose of this forum).

So, thanks guys, for not making me feel like that again.

User avatar
Mattalones

Silver
Posts: 528
Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:18 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Mattalones » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:28 pm

bmphelps wrote:Thanks so much for all your help! I posted these same questions on the Law School Admission forum and some jackass actually said I gave him a great laugh because he thought HE was a newbie, but didn't deign to answer any of the questions.

I've also been told, "I don't want to sound like a jerk but a 3.5 isn't considered a high GPA - but I guess it depends on what law school you choose" in response to my question about LSAT score tied to GPA (my UG happens to be 3.5).

I've been on this site exactly three days and am trying actually to avoid asking questions so that I am not ridiculed into feeling stupid for asking questions (which, I thought, was the whole purpose of this forum).

So, thanks guys, for not making me feel like that again.
Some people on here are jerks. They can be because you can't do anything about it. Whatever ... ignore them.

To answer your question about a 3.5 GPA being high or low ... that is a little like asking if 60 degrees is hot or cold: it really depends. You are right to think that it depends on which school you submit that GPA to, but it also depends on your major, on which school you come from, and on which applicant pool you are being compared against. For instance, if you are the first in you family to go to college because your family immigrated from Mexico, a 3.5 will often be considered good. However, if you come from 5 generations of Yale Law School graduates and both of your parents are brilliant professors, you really should be doing better than that. The main point is that your life context plays a significant role in assessing how "high" your GPA is.

You could also have had family issues for the first 2 years, got a 2.0, got a 4.0 after that, and then graduated with a 3.0. That would be a really "high" GPA given the context. When you apply, just play up your context and show the admissions people why your particular GPA/LSAT/prospective are stellar. If you do that well, it GPA/LSAT only matter to a certain extent.

User avatar
neskerdoo

Silver
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:13 am

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by neskerdoo » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:31 pm

I have been lurking/posting on this forum for a couple of days and as I've read other posts, new questions keep coming up. I am new to the law school process, but have signed up for the LSAT in June. Here are the questions:

1. I understand tier 1, tier 2, tier 3 schools, but I've also heard top 10s, 20s, 30s, etc. What is the difference between the two? For instance, Chapman Law School is a tier 3 school, but I've also heard they are not considered a "good" choice? Where would I find a ranking of law schools?

2. I STILL don't fully understand the whole LSAT curve thing...

3. If I am offered scholarships, would I only be offered from those schools to which I apply? Or assuming my scores/GPA is good enough, would I receive letters in the mail from schools offering me scholarships for which I did not even apply? And how would they even know my scores?

4. What does waitlisted mean?

I think that's it for now - thanks!

aaaaaand, threadjacked!

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Ryduce

New
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 09, 2008 9:49 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Ryduce » Sun Apr 13, 2008 10:36 pm

It's all good.

We're all new to this,and have alot of questions.That's why this site is such an invaluable resource.

Hijack my threads all you want.

gabbo

New
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:21 am

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by gabbo » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:32 am

The "Tier" ranking of schools is laughable for measuring the modern university system. It says nothing about the quality of education at the school. Here is what the system measures:

- The school's endowment.
- The number of research programs the school has.
- The number of graduate degree programs it offers.
- The number of faculty who have the highest degree in their fields.

Since even Tier 3-5 colleges have almost all PhD professors and offer graduate degrees, what you're really looking at with Tier 1 schools is money. If a school has a high endowment and gets a lot of research grants, it will be a Tier 1 school. Test scores of students, graduation ratings, quality of faculty, etc., have absolutely NOTHING to do with this rating.
Last edited by gabbo on Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
neskerdoo

Silver
Posts: 545
Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2007 9:13 am

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by neskerdoo » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:34 am

gabbo wrote:The "Tier" ranking of schools is laughable for measuring the modern university system. It says nothing about the quality of education at the school. Here is what the system measures:

- The school's endowment.
- The number of research programs the school has.
- The number of graduate degree programs it offers.
- The number of faculty who have the highest degree in their fields.

Since even Tier 3 and 4 colleges have almost all PhD professors and offer graduate degrees, what you're really looking at with Tier 1 schools is money. If a school has a high endowment and gets a lot of research grants, it will be a Tier 1 school. Test scores of students, graduation ratings, quality of faculty, etc., have absolutely NOTHING to do with this rating.
wow... you're lame

User avatar
WassAnch

New
Posts: 70
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2009 10:29 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by WassAnch » Tue Jun 02, 2009 12:50 am

gabbo wrote:The "Tier" ranking of schools is laughable for measuring the modern university system. It says nothing about the quality of education at the school. Here is what the system measures:

- The school's endowment.
- The number of research programs the school has.
- The number of graduate degree programs it offers.
- The number of faculty who have the highest degree in their fields.

Since even Tier 3-5 colleges have almost all PhD professors and offer graduate degrees, what you're really looking at with Tier 1 schools is money. If a school has a high endowment and gets a lot of research grants, it will be a Tier 1 school. Test scores of students, graduation ratings, quality of faculty, etc., have absolutely NOTHING to do with this rating.
Have you even bothered to look at how the rankings are calculated? GPA, LSAT scores, and peer assessment scores account for a lot.

Anyways, Tier one schools are the schools ranked 1-50. US News has dropped the second tier and considers all schools ranked 1-100 to be tier one (they skip the second tier, but I think that most people still consider 51-100 tier 2).

Tier 3 and 4 schools generally aren't publicly ranked within their respective tiers.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
Cole S. Law

Bronze
Posts: 237
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2008 5:50 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Cole S. Law » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:04 am

woodford wrote:
MiniMao wrote:
So a Tier 1 school, on average, will have smarter students and better job prospects after graduation than a Tier 3 school.
i don't know about "smarter." certainly, on average, they have students with higher LSAT's and GPA's, but i'm not sure this means that they are "smarter"
At some point, you may have to admit that someone somewhere is smarter than you.

User avatar
soullesswonder

Silver
Posts: 552
Joined: Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:36 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by soullesswonder » Tue Jun 02, 2009 1:10 am

gabbo wrote:The "Tier" ranking of schools is laughable for measuring the modern university system. It says nothing about the quality of education at the school. Here is what the system measures:

- The school's endowment.
- The number of research programs the school has.
- The number of graduate degree programs it offers.
- The number of faculty who have the highest degree in their fields.

Since even Tier 3-5 colleges have almost all PhD professors and offer graduate degrees, what you're really looking at with Tier 1 schools is money. If a school has a high endowment and gets a lot of research grants, it will be a Tier 1 school. Test scores of students, graduation ratings, quality of faculty, etc., have absolutely NOTHING to do with this rating.
You do realize this is TOP LAW SCHOOLS, right? Nobody ITT cares about the research rankings of the general institutions. First Post Fail.

User avatar
AJaKe

Bronze
Posts: 224
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2007 1:13 am

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by AJaKe » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:29 pm

Why was a thread from 2008 resurrected?

User avatar
Spaceman_Stiff

New
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:45 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Spaceman_Stiff » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:41 pm

AJaKe wrote:Why was a thread from 2008 resurrected?
I don't know, but let us keep it going.

F :evil: B

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


User avatar
Z'Barron

New
Posts: 41
Joined: Wed May 20, 2009 10:55 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Z'Barron » Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:48 pm

Ryduce wrote:I'm sorry for asking such a seemingly stupid question,but after looking at the rankings of particular schools I don't really understand what the criteria is for taxonimizing a school's tier.

For example:I always thought of Gonzaga as a very respectable law school.It is a tier 3.Meanwhile Stetson,which I've never heard of,is a tier 1.
Very little. to be honest. except for the self-fulfilling prophesy that the rankings have created in employment prospects. for example, I know many of Seattle's top attorneys hail from Gonzaga and Seattle-U...millionaires, mind you. And they don't know anything about the rankings. To them, any Washington college student who doesn't at least consider UW, SU and Gonzaga, whether they have a shot at Harvard or not, is a fool. On the inside, these schoos are not much differnt from each other...and it was once respectable for a 3.9 UW grad with a 95th percentile LSAT score (or no score at all, for those who graduated when it was just an application and essay) to go to Gonzaga or SU. Now? Nobody with such a profile would even consider it.

The rankings arise from, either, a noble attempt to create the best product for consumers, or an elitist attempt to wipe minorities out of the game completely. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. Either way, the rankings have failed, and, thus, ruined graduate education.

User avatar
Belili

New
Posts: 45
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2009 1:10 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Belili » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:12 pm

Z'Barron wrote:
Ryduce wrote:I'm sorry for asking such a seemingly stupid question,but after looking at the rankings of particular schools I don't really understand what the criteria is for taxonimizing a school's tier.

For example:I always thought of Gonzaga as a very respectable law school.It is a tier 3.Meanwhile Stetson,which I've never heard of,is a tier 1.
Very little. to be honest. except for the self-fulfilling prophesy that the rankings have created in employment prospects. for example, I know many of Seattle's top attorneys hail from Gonzaga and Seattle-U...millionaires, mind you. And they don't know anything about the rankings. To them, any Washington college student who doesn't at least consider UW, SU and Gonzaga, whether they have a shot at Harvard or not, is a fool. On the inside, these schoos are not much differnt from each other...and it was once respectable for a 3.9 UW grad with a 95th percentile LSAT score (or no score at all, for those who graduated when it was just an application and essay) to go to Gonzaga or SU. Now? Nobody with such a profile would even consider it.

The rankings arise from, either, a noble attempt to create the best product for consumers, or an elitist attempt to wipe minorities out of the game completely. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. Either way, the rankings have failed, and, thus, ruined graduate education.
"Last visited: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:28 pm"

I doubt he'll read your answer to his question.

User avatar
Spaceman_Stiff

New
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2008 2:45 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by Spaceman_Stiff » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:13 pm

Belili wrote:
Z'Barron wrote:
Ryduce wrote:I'm sorry for asking such a seemingly stupid question,but after looking at the rankings of particular schools I don't really understand what the criteria is for taxonimizing a school's tier.

For example:I always thought of Gonzaga as a very respectable law school.It is a tier 3.Meanwhile Stetson,which I've never heard of,is a tier 1.
Very little. to be honest. except for the self-fulfilling prophesy that the rankings have created in employment prospects. for example, I know many of Seattle's top attorneys hail from Gonzaga and Seattle-U...millionaires, mind you. And they don't know anything about the rankings. To them, any Washington college student who doesn't at least consider UW, SU and Gonzaga, whether they have a shot at Harvard or not, is a fool. On the inside, these schoos are not much differnt from each other...and it was once respectable for a 3.9 UW grad with a 95th percentile LSAT score (or no score at all, for those who graduated when it was just an application and essay) to go to Gonzaga or SU. Now? Nobody with such a profile would even consider it.

The rankings arise from, either, a noble attempt to create the best product for consumers, or an elitist attempt to wipe minorities out of the game completely. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. Either way, the rankings have failed, and, thus, ruined graduate education.
"Last visited: Sat Oct 11, 2008 7:28 pm"

I doubt he'll read your answer to his question.

Probably for the best for the OP's sake...

User avatar
A'nold

Gold
Posts: 3617
Joined: Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:07 pm

Re: What seperates a Tier 1 from a Tier 3 school?

Post by A'nold » Tue Jun 02, 2009 4:33 pm

Z'Barron wrote:
Ryduce wrote:I'm sorry for asking such a seemingly stupid question,but after looking at the rankings of particular schools I don't really understand what the criteria is for taxonimizing a school's tier.

For example:I always thought of Gonzaga as a very respectable law school.It is a tier 3.Meanwhile Stetson,which I've never heard of,is a tier 1.
Very little. to be honest. except for the self-fulfilling prophesy that the rankings have created in employment prospects. for example, I know many of Seattle's top attorneys hail from Gonzaga and Seattle-U...millionaires, mind you. And they don't know anything about the rankings. To them, any Washington college student who doesn't at least consider UW, SU and Gonzaga, whether they have a shot at Harvard or not, is a fool. On the inside, these schoos are not much differnt from each other...and it was once respectable for a 3.9 UW grad with a 95th percentile LSAT score (or no score at all, for those who graduated when it was just an application and essay) to go to Gonzaga or SU. Now? Nobody with such a profile would even consider it.

The rankings arise from, either, a noble attempt to create the best product for consumers, or an elitist attempt to wipe minorities out of the game completely. I haven't made up my mind about it yet. Either way, the rankings have failed, and, thus, ruined graduate education.
I agree with this. I hate the rankings. When I was accepted to SU Law a few years ago my Grandmother was bragging to all of her friends and when they asked her about or when I mentioned UW she would say, "SU is a FAR better school". When her kids were looking at colleges, SU was more prestigeous than UW. Gonzaga also carries with it some lay prestige in the state. However, it is pretty much UW or bust for the top jobs. Sucks IMO. Regionally, regional schools should be able to carry more weight than what USNEWS allows. I wish USNWR would only rank the top 20 schools nationally, that way there would not be the stupid numbers manipulation that we see in the t2/3/4 schools.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Ask a Law Student”